Rapidly growing BP in a 20L

Hey guys,

I haven't been on here in a very long time, but I have a few questions/comments/concerns so keep an eye out for my posts. I still just have one BP, and he currently lives in a 20L tank. My question is when should I move him to a larger tank? He is roughly 30" long, and has some pretty good girth to him.

I've read that the rule of thumb is that the length and width of the tank combined should be longer than the snake. Is this a pretty good rule to follow? I'm just curious because he has outgrown his hides, and there isn't much room to make them much bigger.

No need, a 20 gal will suit him for most if not the rest of his life.

he said 20 liter.. unless he misspoke then that is smaller than a 20 gallon..

When I wrote "20L" I meant a 20 gallon long tank.

ah gotcha :D

20 gallon should be good for at least the first year. I have a 40 gallon (it is about 4 inches taller than your tank probobly) and that is the last tank I will need. You will be able to tell when the 20 gal is feeling cramped for your snake (not that he would mind much)

What kind of signs would tell me he is cramped?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sneakerpro

What kind of signs would tell me he is cramped?

---

Well, when there is not much room for hides, water bowl and cage furniture, a light bulb will click on in your head that says "time for a bigger tank!"

If you can easily fit all of that, then your fine. Don't forget that bps don't really need much roaming space, but there should be enough that they can easily maneuver throughout the tank from one hide to the other.

Yep, thats the same light bulb that provoked me to write this post. He has definitely outgrown his hides, and when I replace them with larger ones there won't be enough room for both hides, the water dish, and the ONE piece of wood that is in there.

I stumbled upon a very large aquarium for free. I think it is at least a 50g. Would have too large of a tank cause any major problems?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sneakerpro

Yep, thats the same light bulb that provoked me to write this post. He has definitely outgrown his hides, and when I replace them with larger ones there won't be enough room for both hides, the water dish, and the ONE piece of wood that is in there.

---

Then don't be afraid to go with your gut;) Don't forget that if you do get a new enclosure to give your snake a week or so to get used to it before resuming handling.

This is 40 gal, and you can tell its a wee cramped, but I can take the wood out and those hides have growing room left in them. My bp is just over a pound (750 grams)

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/m...si182/tank.jpg

Is it a tall 50 gallon? About how much does your bp weigh? In the long run it would work, but it could be a little stressful at first for him.

I think gallon sizes are misleading. Look at the floor space and determine if it's enough. (even mock set up one at the pet store)

I think a 50 gallon would work fine, just give him his week to adjust and make it pretty! :D

Well I think I'll be switching fairly soon. Unfortunately money is tight and I'm going to need some new equipment when I switch. Stupid lack of money. *sigh*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I think gallon sizes are misleading. Look at the floor space and determine if it's enough. (even mock set up one at the pet store)

I think a 50 gallon would work fine, just give him his week to adjust and make it pretty! :D

---

Make it pretty (put lots of plastic plant junk in it like me HA!)

As long as its not hugely tall, it should be good.

Also Keep in mind you may need to also upgrade what you're using as a heat element. Its going to be a big difference in a 50G maintaining your temps depending on what you're currently using.

It is frowned upon on here to use anything other than a rubbermaid/sterlite tub or rack system to house your bp. I had my first ball in a 65 gallon tank for about a year and a half I never had a single problem with temps or humidity. Its a possibility that I was just lucky but it worked for me until I got 16 more snakes and now have to use a rack. I say use the larger tank if you wish but just keep an eye on temps and humidity and enjoy. Now if you plan on getting more snakes (which you will eventually lol) THen keep in mind that tanks take up alot of space.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

It is frowned upon on here to use anything other than a rubbermaid/sterlite tub or rack system to house your bp. I had my first ball in a 65 gallon tank for about a year and a half I never had a single problem with temps or humidity. Its a possibility that I was just lucky but it worked for me until I got 16 more snakes and now have to use a rack. I say use the larger tank if you wish but just keep an eye on temps and humidity and enjoy. Now if you plan on getting more snakes (which you will eventually lol) THen keep in mind that tanks take up alot of space.

---

Wow, that is SO false I don't know what else to say

Yes there are many members on here that have tubs but MANY, MANY members have tanks and love them!!! They are easy to keep up if put together correctly.

I don't know which bp.net you've been on lately but I never hear people bash tanks. Tubs have their advantages but like I said, many people prefer to SEE their snakes...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by missi182

Wow, that is SO false I don't know what else to say

Yes there are many members on here that have tubs but MANY, MANY members have tanks and love them!!! They are easy to keep up if put together correctly.

I don't know which bp.net you've been on lately but I never hear people bash tanks. Tubs have their advantages but like I said, many people prefer to SEE their snakes...

---

I am not saying that ppl don't use glass tanks. I would bet money that about 100% of the ppl on here have or have had their animals in glass tanks. But I have noticed that when ppl bring up the Large (50 gallon etc) tanks that ppl will always be quick to put them down. "temp is hard to keep stable in glass tanks", "humidity fluctuates", "its too big for the snake to feel secure" "they don't need that much room, they stay in their burrows all the time" . All these quotes are of course paraphrasing but you still get the idea. I have had this conversation with members before when I used to have a glass setup (which I still do for a few small snakes). All of these claims are BS if you ask me anyone who has all these problems just isnt doing it right I never had a problem and secondly I never had to tweak anything. I will look for specific threads but thats gonna take a while :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

I am not saying that ppl don't use glass tanks. I would bet money that about 100% of the ppl on here have or have had their animals in glass tanks. But I have noticed that when ppl bring up the Large (50 gallon etc) tanks that ppl will always be quick to put them down. "temp is hard to keep stable in glass tanks", "humidity fluctuates", "its too big for the snake to feel secure" "they don't need that much room, they stay in their burrows all the time" . All these quotes are of course paraphrasing but you still get the idea. I have had this conversation with members before when I used to have a glass setup (which I still do for a few small snakes). All of these claims are BS if you ask me anyone who has all these problems just isnt doing it right I never had a problem and secondly I never had to tweak anything. I will look for specific threads but thats gonna take a while :)

---

O.K, but you said "it is frowned upon here to use anything but rubbermaids/tubs"

Umm, no.

Yes, you can have issues with a 50 gallon or a large tank, and all of those points are accurate. With a young bp, it WILL feel insecure in a large tank if the correct measures are not taken.

The point is to show new comers the easiest and proven ways to be successful, there are MANY other ways to house ball pythons including in large tanks but when someone says "help my bp wont eat, btw it is a 200 gram baby in a 40 gallon" we can see right away what the issue MAY be.

Rule of thumb: the length of the tank should be at least 2/3 the length of the snake.

I didn't realize I was starting another tank vs. tub debate!

I've had my BP in this 20L since I got him in Feb. and haven't really had any issues with temp and humidity since the first month or so. I did have to cover the screen with some foil to help hold humidity, but now I've pretty much got it down to a science. I can change the humidity at will with minor tweaks to help facilitate shedding etc. However, in my current situation new snakes aren't really an option, and I prefer to have my one and only snake on display rather than in a tub.

I kept a rescue in a tub for a month or two, and realize the ease of using a tub. Even with this experience I still feel like a glass tank is the best option for me, even though BPs always hide and suck as a display snake.

Quote:

---

Also Keep in mind you may need to also upgrade what you're using as a heat element. Its going to be a big difference in a 50G maintaining your temps depending on what you're currently using.

---

That is exactly what I meant when I was saying this will be a slow transition so that I can acquire the proper equipment. I will be investing in a quality t-stat and mostly likely some flexwatt. I also need to build/buy bigger hides, and some "decoration" to provide a secure environment in such a large tank.

Thanks for all the input guys.

tank vs tub.. here we go again.. use whatever you want as long as you provide 2 hides, a temperature gradient, water dish, proper humidity and escape proof..

That's because no one in their right mind, who knows how to keep Ball Pythons, will use "a 55 gallon tank. They are heavy, awful to clean, very difficult to keep correctly heated and humidified."


"I would put the snake in a rubbermaid container, clean the 55gal tank up really good, take it to my nearest pet store and trade it for a 20gal long. Set the 20gal up with all the accessories you already have and you should be good to go. Most people think the bigger the tank the better, this is not true. You want your BP to have tons of room to crawl around, the BP doesn't want that. He wants to feel cramped and secure, the less open space the better. Remember in the wild they spend 90% of their time crammed in a hole in the ground they can barely fit in. Hit some websites and look at the husbandry recommended for BP's."


"Toss the tank and buy an inexpensive Sterilite or Iris tub. Much easier.. Why put your snake and yourself through agony?"

Can get more if you would like. removed names don't know if I should post them but can if you wish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

That's because no one in their right mind, who knows how to keep Ball Pythons, will use "a 55 gallon tank. They are heavy, awful to clean, very difficult to keep correctly heated and humidified."


"I would put the snake in a rubbermaid container, clean the 55gal tank up really good, take it to my nearest pet store and trade it for a 20gal long. Set the 20gal up with all the accessories you already have and you should be good to go. Most people think the bigger the tank the better, this is not true. You want your BP to have tons of room to crawl around, the BP doesn't want that. He wants to feel cramped and secure, the less open space the better. Remember in the wild they spend 90% of their time crammed in a hole in the ground they can barely fit in. Hit some websites and look at the husbandry recommended for BP's."


"Toss the tank and buy an inexpensive Sterilite or Iris tub. Much easier.. Why put your snake and yourself through agony?"

Can get more if you would like. removed names don't know if I should post them but can if you wish.

---

I honestly don't care how many quotes you can find that bash tanks. I can find 5 times more that support the use of tanks and how to set them up properly, gee I'm pretty sure there are some STICKIES that support them.

Tanks are NOT hard to clean, and EASY to maintain if you do the tiniest bit of research.

The OP has ALREADY said he has tried a tub and wants his snake in a tank. END OF STORY.

The OP has also asked what he needs to do with this tank which is what a "owner in their RIGHT mind" would do.

I have a 42 gallon tank and it is cramped. Am I "an owner not in my right mind?" Stop insulting a huge majority of members on this site that use tanks, more specifically, large tanks for LARGE bps.

I have already mentioned to the OP that the tank is a bit large, but it is usable. He asked for help on how to use it, not for someone to say "get a tub." If he said "what tub should I get?" I wouldn't jump in and say "ditch the tub, get a tank."

If you have only a single snake, and you have the time for it, then there's no reason you can't maintain a large display tank--it's certainly a lot more aesthetically pleasing. You do have to be careful when you clean it--you can't skimp on periodically sterilizing the tank. It's true that is more difficult to do with a tank, and you have to be careful that you don't fail to do it as often as it should be done because it's more difficult.

There are plenty of ways to be sure the temperatures and humidity are correct, and there are a lot of options for decorating and making the tank an interesting and secure habitat for the snake. You also have to know your snake. There ARE ball pythons that do not like large enclosures--they will refuse to eat if their cage is too large.
There are also a few that will not eat if their cage is too SMALL. They are all individuals. Many will do fine in a very large tank as long as they have hiding places.
I actually have a couple of hatchlings in quarantine...in 41 quart bins, because they were available. They're doing just fine in there, so I didn't need to put them into shoeboxes.

If your snake doesn't eat within a couple of weeks of being put into a new enclosure, it may not be happy with the size or arrangement.

I realize that tubs work so much better for somebody that has a large number of snakes, but that isn't me. It's not like I'm looking for ways to save time and money which is one of the number one draws to using tubs. Also, with a little effort I have figured out a number of ways to keep appropriate heat and humidity in my current tank, so why wouldn't I be able to apply the same techniques on a larger scale? This issue has been drug out on so many threads when it really is a matter of opinion and varies with individual situations. There is no right or wrong as long as the snakes are stress free and healthy.

So if a BP spends 90% of it's time in a hide, does it really matter if the hide is in a small tank, large tank, or tub? I mean, all that the BP will EVER focus on is the hide so maybe we should spend some time "discussing" which type of hide is appropriate?... just a thought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sneakerpro

I realize that tubs work so much better for somebody that has a large number of snakes, but that isn't me. It's not like I'm looking for ways to save time and money which is one of the number one draws to using tubs. Also, with a little effort I have figured out a number of ways to keep appropriate heat and humidity in my current tank, so why wouldn't I be able to apply the same techniques on a larger scale? This issue has been drug out on so many threads when it really is a matter of opinion and varies with individual situations. There is no right or wrong as long as the snakes are stress free and healthy.

So if a BP spends 90% of it's time in a hide, does it really matter if the hide is in a small tank, large tank, or tub? I mean, all that the BP will EVER focus on is the hide so maybe we should spend some time "discussing" which type of hide is appropriate?... just a thought.

---

I agree. You are most correct in saying that there is no right or wrong answer. Tubs AND tanks work. Generalizing that this entire site frowns upon tanks and that large tanks are only used by people not in their right mind is a gross misunderstanding of the various physchographics here.

The only right answer is do what works for you. If your snake eats, sheds, pees, and poops on a regular basis then there ya go. If not something we, as keepers, are doing is wrong and must be corrected. Whether it be a tank or a tub is irrelavant, the same problems can occur in both environments. Everything is dependant upon the time and effort that the keeper is willing to put into the care of their pet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sneakerpro

I realize that tubs work so much better for somebody that has a large number of snakes, but that isn't me. It's not like I'm looking for ways to save time and money which is one of the number one draws to using tubs. Also, with a little effort I have figured out a number of ways to keep appropriate heat and humidity in my current tank, so why wouldn't I be able to apply the same techniques on a larger scale? This issue has been drug out on so many threads when it really is a matter of opinion and varies with individual situations. There is no right or wrong as long as the snakes are stress free and healthy.

So if a BP spends 90% of it's time in a hide, does it really matter if the hide is in a small tank, large tank, or tub? I mean, all that the BP will EVER focus on is the hide so maybe we should spend some time "discussing" which type of hide is appropriate?... just a thought.

---

I would go all out and use a 65 gal tanks They make some awesome display tanks. I will post some pics of my setup from when I had it. I don't know where missi keeps getting the notion that I hate tanks even though I mentioned in my original post that I have used large tanks and only got rid of it because I needed a bit more room. As for tubs being cheaper thats only half true. Depending on where you are you could get a 55 gal tanks for 50 bucks (thats what i paid from a local aquarium mfg:))

HEres the 65 or the 55 I can't remember I had both but one got a crack and replaced with the other. lol.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...r/DSCN1042.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...r/DSCN1043.jpg\
And here is my home made 4 tanks enclosure which I still use today. Its 6ft tall, 4 ft wide and 2ft deep.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...r/SNC10428.jpg