Should you cool even if you are not ready to breed?

I just got my BP's this year and won't be ready to breed for probably two years, as they are all 08's. I was wondering should I be cooling my snakes as if they were going to breed? I assume in the wild there would be some type of cool down period. And I know from when I had Tegus that it was advised that you let them hibernate in the winter so that they did not mature to quickly. Also does power feeding snakes cause them to grow faster then there sexual maturity? I know with Tegus they say that growing to fast causes their sexual organs to stretch rather then grow in at an appropriate rate.

Before I started breeding I never lowered my temps, my temps were constant 24/7 year round!

And I didn't even cool when I bred and don't plan to this year either.

ive never bred before so i am clueless to it but i see some cool and some dont. my question is that isnt it better for the snake to have the cool down process to have a better or higher quanity clutch?. ive read that you should allow your snake to hibernate/cool for a few months to have better chances of them having a greater clutch.

Ball pythons don't brumate (hibernate). Remember too that they are found in areas close to the equator which has minimal temp fluctuations.

Does no cooling mean leave the heat pads on?? I was listening to a previous reptile radio show today and they said heat could lead to slugs... I am now contemplating turning down/off my heat pads.

Well I have one clutch about to hatch any day now. I never changed the temps even when I was breeding. Not much experience but hope it helps.

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Does no cooling mean leave the heat pads on?? I was listening to a previous reptile radio show today and they said heat could lead to slugs... I am now contemplating turning down/off my heat pads.

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I didn't change anything, heat stayed the same, my females thermoregulated. I did have two slugs in one clutch. Whether the heat had anything to do with it, I can't say, but another female with the exact same temps had no slugs.

If you don't have any other heat source, I would not suggest turning your heat pads off.

Depending on your general temperatures in your room, you CAN turn everything off, given that the animals don't dip below 75 degrees for an extended period of time (My own arbitrary number that I feel is unhealthy and can lead to issues)

Lower your heat source down to 85-80, but don't turn it off.

These animals need to be able to thermoregulate, and without a heat source, they may not be able to digest, stay healthy, etc etc etc.


And to answer the questions, I have cooled and I have not cooled, and have not found significant differences in my seasons.

I have an oil based heater that keeps the room temp @80 so that is the ambient temp of the tanks... I dropped my temps to 87 but have an issue... the thermostat controls 4 cages... 1 has a boa, the other two have females that I plan on breeding this year... If I drop it down to 85 will I pee off my boa or the other girls??

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

I have an oil based heater that keeps the room temp @80 so that is the ambient temp of the tanks... I dropped my temps to 87 but have an issue... the thermostat controls 4 cages... 1 has a boa, the other two have females that I plan on breeding this year... If I drop it down to 85 will I pee off my boa or the other girls??

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Well, the other female BPs will not be a problem. I've done the same thing, and had the smaller females not stop eating thru-out the season.

Its the Boa I would be concerned about, and I have no real knowledge as to the husbandry of Boas (yet). I would do some research and see what you can find and if it doesn't work, get another thermostat to just control the Boa. :)

Good luck!

If they are 08's I wouldnt cool, it may cause them to go off feed.
I dont recommend power feeding it leads to obesity which can cause several health problems and is a detriment to breeding by causing females to slug out and males to loose interest.

well im basically a newbie to the hobby so i didnt know. i dont have any ball pythons but i have 3 carpet pythons which im assuming i should cool down, im still reading on it. perhaps jungle could give his opinion as to should or shouldnt i cool off carpets.

cant you breed at around 18 months??? thats what i've always heard. as long as they are at a good weight of course. if it takes them 2 years to get bog enough it seems like you would be under feeding them

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

If they are 08's I wouldnt cool, it may cause them to go off feed.
I dont recommend power feeding it leads to obesity which can cause several health problems and is a detriment to breeding by causing females to slug out and males to loose interest.

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Thanks Raul. I was wondering about them going off feed. I wonder if them slugging out is due to not being sexually mature. And don't worry I have no intention of power feeding. I'll wait paintently. And hopefully be greatly rewarded in the end. :D

bimmer like i said im a newbie to this but it would seem to me being at the weight they should be at to breed which i have seen and read a few times is around 12 to 1500 grams with the females being more around the 1500 i think so i would think that with a female being that big in 18 months would seem to me like shes over fed or power fed. dont hold me to it because i am new to this also but i think the 18 month would seem more liek a male could be ready then a female.

Wow, I am really surprised by the number of people that have chimed in and said they did little to cool.

I'm so completely torn on the subject as to what's *RIGHT*

One the one hand: BP's do come from near the equator with minimal temp fluctuations. There is a rainy season from Oct-Nov, or somewhere in there, and this could likely affect the ground temperatures could it not? The fact they are near the equator leads me to believe a cooling period is not necessary.

On the other hand: The Barker's book speaks of the importance of cooling, and it speaks VOLUMES to it. They insist that heat is devastating at certain points of the reproductive cycle. Unfortunately there are no statistics on what temps lead to how many slugs, etc... And ALSO, is it not possible that the temps of 80 cool / 90 hot are actually a tad too warm (I looked up Ghana/Togo and it was something like temps of 72-90 during breeding season). And if so, then a cooling period is nothing more than us returning the BP's to the temp that nature intended (but we go higher to help growth and impede RIs).

Not to open a can of worms, but any thoughts????

JonV

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Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

Wow, I am really surprised by the number of people that have chimed in and said they did little to cool.

I'm so completely torn on the subject as to what's *RIGHT*

One the one hand: BP's do come from near the equator with minimal temp fluctuations. There is a rainy season from Oct-Nov, or somewhere in there, and this could likely affect the ground temperatures could it not? The fact they are near the equator leads me to believe a cooling period is not necessary.

On the other hand: The Barker's book speaks of the importance of cooling, and it speaks VOLUMES to it. They insist that heat is devastating at certain points of the reproductive cycle. Unfortunately there are no statistics on what temps lead to how many slugs, etc... And ALSO, is it not possible that the temps of 80 cool / 90 hot are actually a tad too warm (I looked up Ghana/Togo and it was something like temps of 72-90 during breeding season). And if so, then a cooling period is nothing more than us returning the BP's to the temp that nature intended (but we go higher to help growth and impede RIs).

Not to open a can of worms, but any thoughts????

JonV

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There are several different theories and different people do and try different things. The temps you are quoting are air temps, snakes can and will go underground where temps will be more evenly tempered. The Barkers have their own way of doing things and they use much cooler temps than most and feed alot less. I am in no way knocking them but if you read what other breeders do you will find many variations. I cooled one year and then didnt the next year and got similar results. I have some girls lay in Feb and other that just laid in Oct and expecting another to lay in November. The later girls obviously cycled and became gravid during the summer so cool temps didnt trigger them?Who knows

One thing Tracy Barker said that I follow is watch your females for breeding/cycling signs and if happens to be in July or Jan. pair them up. I have found that was the best advice I have ever got and now I breed according to my females behavior and history more than a specific time of the year. I know other breeders here in southern cali that cooled this year and some that didnt and I am hearing about alot of people experiencing late clutches. So who the hell knows? I think low pressure systems play into it alot as well.

I reccomend following what other successful breeders do and making adjustments as your experience increases and see what works best for you. I followed alot of the Sutherlands practices because they were(not any more) in my general area and figured their climate/temp changes were similar to mine. After a few breeding seasons under your belt you will get a feel for your girls and make adjustments that work for you.

There isnt necessarily one way to do it.

Well last year late in the season we tried the temp cycling and didn't have much luck other than having snakes go off food. This year we are not cycling the temps. I have some display enclosures that the UTH is set at 90 but by the time you get the air temperature on the cool side it is around 76 degrees. In our first week we have had a 66.66666% success ratio with the males locking. Also the females do not seem to be going off food. The males on the other hand appear to be going off food. I figure if we give the 33.3333% that hasn't locked over the first week a couple of months they will start to lock. The males are all non proven breeders with the exception of one male.

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

There are several different theories and different people do and try different things. The temps you are quoting are air temps, snakes can and will go underground where temps will be more evenly tempered. The Barkers have their own way of doing things and they use much cooler temps than most and feed alot less. I am in no way knocking them but if you read what other breeders do you will find many variations. I cooled one year and then didnt the next year and got similar results. I have some girls lay in Feb and other that just laid in Oct and expecting another to lay in November. The later girls obviously cycled and became gravid during the summer so cool temps didnt trigger them?Who knows

One thing Tracy Barker said that I follow is watch your females for breeding/cycling signs and if happens to be in July or Jan. pair them up. I have found that was the best advice I have ever got and now I breed according to my females behavior and history more than a specific time of the year. I know other breeders here in southern cali that cooled this year and some that didnt and I am hearing about alot of people experiencing late clutches. So who the hell knows? I think low pressure systems play into it alot as well.

I reccomend following what other successful breeders do and making adjustments as your experience increases and see what works best for you. I followed alot of the Sutherlands practices because they were(not any more) in my general area and figured their climate/temp changes were similar to mine. After a few breeding seasons under your belt you will get a feel for your girls and make adjustments that work for you.

There isnt necessarily one way to do it.

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Hmmm.....Wondering what the signs are......??? Can you be kind enough to explain....

Thanx in advance....

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Originally Posted by RuGGeR

Hmmm.....Wondering what the signs are......??? Can you be kind enough to explain....

Thanx in advance....

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Signs include good eaters suddenly going off food, females spending alot of time on the cool side and possibly even soaking in their water bowl, also shedding every 30 days can be a sign that they are starting to cycle. These are not definates but they become more obvious when you are familiar with a certain girls normal behavior/patterns then suddenly see one or all of these signs pop up. Then again you will have exceptions to the rules but getting to know your females is your best bet.;)

Introducing a male can also get your girls to start cycling.

There are many many opinions on when or even if you should cool and from what I've gathered...it's whatever you feel works best for you.

I'm not going to cool this year simply because the whay my room is setup when winter hits the room temp is going to drop about 5F anyway.

I cooled last season to 80F on the heat rope at the lowest point, and had 3 females give me a clutch of 13 perfect eggs, 7 perfect eggs, and 9 eggs with 3 infertile--the rest perfect.

I wouldn't cool any snakes you're not planning breed--it's stressful for them, and will slow down their eating.