advice needed from the more experienced

well as some of you know from most of my post or pictures i am a carpet python lover but lately i have had interest in a few morphs. well i came across this guy last night an i am interested in him but i want to make sure from someone experienced in morphs that he looks like what he is listed as so someone please help me lol. hes listed as..... 1.0 Spider Reduced pattern and very light yellow 250. and its about 10 mins down the road from me so no shipping will be needed.


http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/j...tel2008002.jpg

Looks like all of my spiders.. :D If your looking for a spider and like the way it looks go for it

ok thank you. what makes it supposively a reduced pattern or is it even reduced? lol

I would say its reduced. Its the lack of the black pattern that makes it reduced.

Yep - it's a spider -- no spots (always a bonus) -- low white (my favorite) -- if you got the money and the interest it's not a bad deal - you can probably even talk him down to $200. :rolleye2:

Oh and in case you didn't know - some spiders have a tendency to wobble - make sure you are prepared for that if you buy one.

Good luck! :gj:

is the 250.00 a fair asking price? i'm not sure what they go for but i have seen a couple of thems pics and i am thinking of picking this one up and perhaps finding an albino female or a lesser female

wobble? lol ok now i feel very stupid as to ask what do you mean by wobble and how does that come about?

250.00 is fair 300.00-350.00 is an average 250.00 is a little lower for the most part.

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Originally Posted by xanaxez

wobble? lol ok now i feel very stupid as to ask what do you mean by wobble and how does that come about?

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it is a neurological problem with spiders. Google it you will probably find a youtube video.

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Originally Posted by Somed00d

it is a neurological problem with spiders. Google it you will probably find a youtube video.

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It is a problem with some spiders, not all.

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Originally Posted by Somed00d

it is a neurological problem with spiders.

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Sorry not to take the thread off topic too much but I heard something interesting this weekend on the spider "wobble". One of the vendors at the show in Manch was saying that they've done some studies and the reason that spiders "wobble" in the first place is because the genetics that give them that spider pattern are on the same allele as their vision. So supposedly spiders see their whole world as spinning constantly. As they get older they usually learn to deal with it and that's why older spiders usually do not spin as much if at all compared to the younger ones :D.

It was just funny because they were selling this little spider female and she was literally spinning herself into knots. I know people are gonna hate me for saying that it's funny but y'know it's more of a quirk in my mind than something to be deathly afraid of. My little spider has a bit of a wobble sometimes when he gets excited.

Lol, sorry for the little hijack just thought that was interesting. He is a very nice looking little spider for sure and for that price you can't beat it!

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Originally Posted by anendeloflorien

they've done some studies

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Who is "they" specifically? And what kind of studies were done to test the vision of spider ball pythons? Who was the vendor you spoke with that gave you this information? I'm fascinated. :nerd:

-adam

if this seems to be a problem in this breed then why do people continue to make them? to me i do not see that people are even caring about this problem and continue on with it not even caring about the welfare of that type of breed. i love the way they look but now knowing the issue of this i wouldnt buy one and help keep these type of projects going. i do not condem people for doing it or people for buying them i just cant bring myself to getting one now knowing these poor things has genetic problems and it isnt there fault =(

There was a heated thread on KS a while back about the spider wobble and I think it got pulled because it got pretty bad -- but there was one post that stuck out like a sore thumb from a guy with a medical background (I forget what exactly) but he pointed out that the spider wobble can't be neurological -- there are apparently several characteristics to determine neurological disorders and the "wobble" lacked these characteristics. I wish I'd a screen captured the damn thing to do a little research - I don't know how true it was but it was for sure interesting.


Anyway that is neither her nor there. There are plenty of spiders that don't wobble -- but there should be a sticky somewhere on the forum outlining what is known about the wobble for those that don't know about it.

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Originally Posted by xanaxez

if this seems to be a problem in this breed then why do people continue to make them?

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Its not a problem its an inherited trait. Like Blue eyes or being short really no different

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to me i do not see that people are even caring about this problem and continue on with it not even caring about the welfare of that type of breed.

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Loads of breeders care about it and put the welfare of the animals first. If any animal is born with something that hinders its ability to feed, drink, poop, pee, breath or shed then steps should be taken but none that I've seen are that bad.

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I do not condem people for doing it or people for buying them i just cant bring myself to getting one now knowing these poor things has genetic problems and it isn't there fault =(

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Better stick with normals then cause all morphs are "genetic problems".

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Who is "they" specifically? And what kind of studies were done to test the vision of spider ball pythons? Who was the vendor you spoke with that gave you this information? I'm fascinated. :nerd:

-adam

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Lol I've got his card at home :D. From the way he was saying it he made it sound like "oh, this is common knowledge how can you not know this." lol. It wasn't like he was trying to be condescending or anything, he seemed like a pretty smart guy :D. I'll pm you with his contact info if you want :nerd:

I would like to know also please its an intresting concept at the least.

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Originally Posted by anendeloflorien

Lol I've got his card at home :D. From the way he was saying it he made it sound like "oh, this is common knowledge how can you not know this." lol. It wasn't like he was trying to be condescending or anything, he seemed like a pretty smart guy :D. I'll pm you with his contact info if you want :nerd:

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Please do! ... I've never heard of any scientific being done specifically on a ball pythons vision and I'm fascinated to hear any results ... or maybe be put in contact with who conducted the study. I really enjoy keeping up to date on any and all research being conducted on ball pythons ... since they're my job. ;) :D

Thanks! ... Looking forward to that PM.

-adam

Um well i may be new to BP's but i know that whatever study these people performed could not have linked the spider color pattern to the spider vision...I'm a bio major far along in my studies, just to give credibility not to brag. I have a spider and she does wobble a bit, i think its kind of cute, and honestly when i see her wobble it looks more like a muscular contraction because of some hormone release when excited about feeding or whatever. I highly doubt if not blatantly refuse that the spiders see their world as constantly spinning and wobble or twist as a result. Most likely this trait is connected to a slightly higher release of an excitatory hormone that occurs with this morph, which is a more sound explanation that can also be used to explain the reason that these snakes tend to be more curious and active, "tend to be." If it is just a hormone release trait, not problem, it is something that their bodies will grow and mature to control. Probably the reason most older older spiders stop their wobble.

Honestly when my snake Eva eats and she starts her wobble i play some music and i think she's just dancing, kinda how we dance when were excited.

:banana::banana:

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Originally Posted by Azriel01

Um well i may be new to BP's but i know that whatever study these people performed could not have linked the spider color pattern to the spider vision...I'm a bio major far along in my studies, just to give credibility not to brag. I have a spider and she does wobble a bit, i think its kind of cute, and honestly when i see her wobble it looks more like a muscular contraction because of some hormone release when excited about feeding or whatever. I highly doubt if not blatantly refuse that the spiders see their world as constantly spinning and wobble or twist as a result.

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Oh ... Ohhhh ... well, I guess I never considered the idea that a vendor at a show could be making up a story about a "research study" in order to sell a spider on their table that was spinning uncontrollably :tears: ... hmmmmm ... I'm sure it's some kind of misunderstanding.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Oh ... Ohhhh ... well, I guess I never considered the idea that a vendor at a show could be making up a story about a "research study" in order to sell a spider on their table that was spinning uncontrollably :tears: ... hmmmmm ... I'm sure it's some kind of misunderstanding.

-adam

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:rofl: Lol Noooo, what, nooooo c'mon someone make something up like that to sell an animal??? Lol j/k it's entirely possible and I wish now that I had asked him for more info on it. BTW it's looking like I might be out of town tonight (going to visit my brother in Boston right after work) but I swear tomorrow I will have the contact info for him :weirdface.
I'd like to think that he's on the level since I did buy a baby albino king from the guy and he seemed like a "nice" guy but it's true some people will say whatever it takes to make money. :tears:

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Originally Posted by anendeloflorien

:rofl: Lol Noooo, what, nooooo c'mon someone make something up like that to sell an animal??? Lol j/k it's entirely possible and I wish now that I had asked him for more info on it. BTW it's looking like I might be out of town tonight (going to visit my brother in Boston right after work) but I swear tomorrow I will have the contact info for him :weirdface.
I'd like to think that he's on the level since I did buy a baby albino king from the guy and he seemed like a "nice" guy but it's true some people will say whatever it takes to make money. :tears:

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I like to give people the benefit of the doubt ... and with all of the good people in this business, it's hard to believe that this was anything more than maybe some mistaken information or something heard second hand that got mixed up. No worries. :gj:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Oh ... Ohhhh ... well, I guess I never considered the idea that a vendor at a show could be making up a story about a "research study" in order to sell a spider on their table that was spinning uncontrollably :tears: ... hmmmmm ... I'm sure it's some kind of misunderstand.

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I was just saying that such a connection of color and pattern to vision is kind of absurd, yeah i know people will make up stuff just so you'll buy

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Originally Posted by xanaxez

if this seems to be a problem in this breed then why do people continue to make them? to me i do not see that people are even caring about this problem and continue on with it not even caring about the welfare of that type of breed. i love the way they look but now knowing the issue of this i wouldnt buy one and help keep these type of projects going. i do not condem people for doing it or people for buying them i just cant bring myself to getting one now knowing these poor things has genetic problems and it isnt there fault =(

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Not everyone does breed them. While at this point it does not seem like there are any short or long term problems with spiders longevity, breeding, feeding... because of the wobble I have chose not to work with them. There are so many other nice affordable morphs out there that are perfect I personally am staying away from spiders. I don't look down on others who do choose to breed them, but they are not for me. My main concern is that there is no way of really knowing what there quality of life is. I don't think just because they eat and breed means they have a good quality of life. That is just instinct IMO. While some just have a little tick, I have seen spiders that literally rolled over when crawling and sat with their head flipped upside down 24/7. I can't imagine that is a good life. I really wish there was a way to fix this problem because there are a ton of spider combos that I think are amazing looking. Maybe evetually someone will figure it out, but that seems pretty doubtful at this point. Good luck with whatever morph you end up picking.

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Originally Posted by pfan151

Not everyone does breed them. While at this point it does not seem like there are any short or long term problems with spiders longevity, breeding, feeding... because of the wobble I have chose not to work with them. There are so many other nice affordable morphs out there that are perfect I personally am staying away from spiders. I don't look down on others who do choose to breed them, but they are not for me. My main concern is that there is no way of really knowing what there quality of life is. I don't think just because they eat and breed means they have a good quality of life. That is just instinct IMO.

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Just curious what is your definition of a "good quality of life"? Saying that a spider who has a wobble does not have a good quality of life is like saying that someone with a speech impediment can't possibly be happy and live a fulfilling life. What about a spider with a wobble makes them unable to thrive and have a good life?????

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Originally Posted by anendeloflorien

Just curious what is your definition of a "good quality of life"? Saying that a spider who has a wobble does not have a good quality of life is like saying that someone with a speech impediment can't possibly be happy and live a fulfilling life. What about a spider with a wobble makes them unable to thrive and have a good life?????

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I am not saying that they don't have a good quality of life. What I am saying is that no one knows for sure that they do. They may not even realize that they are rolling over and shaking or they could be in constant pain. No one knows. Which is why I have chose not to work with them. I don't claim to know any more than anyone else about the issue. I am just not willing to take a chance and hope they have a comfortable life. As I have said many times in the past, I don't look down on anyone that feels differently and decideds to breed them. It is up to everyone to make up their own mind on the issue.