Breeder colonies without using bedding?

Well, I'm highly allergic to most beddings. Beddings that I'm not allergic to give me problems due to dusts, and the ones that I CAN live with are expensive for a small time "operation". So, I'm starting my colony without any type of bedding. I will of course give paper towels for the females with litters/about to drop litters, but this will be the extent of it. Has anyone else tried this or anything similar? So far (about two weeks into it) it seems to be going ok. I simply move the mice to another tub, then hose out the old one. The one thing I can see having problems with is the litter tubs. I can see possible problems with cleaning out the tubs when the litters are young, especially considering that I plan on housing two females per tub, which will probably drop at different times, causing different aged babies, older ones will produce more waste, while younger ones will prevent me from cleaning the cage. So, I will probably have to figure something else out for the litter tubs. I had 1 male to 3 females in a 20qt sterilite tub and had to spray it out approximately every 2-3 days, but I haven't had the larger colony in the larger tub for long enough to give an average.

Doesn't the pee run all over with nothing in the tubs? It seems like the bedding's purpose is to absorb that so they don't have to walk through it. How often do you hose it out?

Actually, ubelievably, I don't have any issues with icky messes or puddles.

I'd think they will be end up with urine soaked feet and bellies. They pee and poo and walk in it without bedding. Plus psychologically most rodents seem to enjoy pushing bedding around, so I would guess you need to put more chew toys or blocks in.

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Originally Posted by Bettacreek

Well, I'm highly allergic to most beddings. Beddings that I'm not allergic to give me problems due to dusts, and the ones that I CAN live with are expensive for a small time "operation".

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what bedding is expensive? perhaps someone can help you find a cheap alternative that you can live with.

Take a Benadryl or two, don a mask, goggles, and some palpating sleeves and get after it.

USE BEDDING. Pododermatitis is NOT fun, and neither is urine soaked fur and urine crusted tails. Rats NEED to be clean, if they aren't, it makes them neurotic because they can't get clean.

Use aspen or a low-dust bedding. You can screen it to remove even more dust. You can use pelleted recycled paper(Yesterday's News in the cat litter section).

Aspen is the worst bedding... Other beddings wreak havoc even with benedryl. Ironically enough, I don't have urine soaked mice, and they don't walk in their droppings/urine. So far, there haven't been any problems and my mice are just as clean as mice that have bedding. They don't have the pleasure of burrowing through bedding though, but, if I were to use Yesterday's News, they wouldn't be able to anyways. As I said in a previous post, I don't have problems with puddles all over the place or running into their play area.

Can you explain where all the wee goes then? Where does the wee and poo pellets go?

Newspaper pellets is the next best thing. Cell sorb plus comes in a 50 pound bag for 19$.

I don't believe they don't have puddles, the puddles may dry before you see them, but that doesnt mean they aren't walking through it wet and dry when you aren't watching. I think its inhumane to force any animal to live and walk in its urine and feces with no way to get off of it through a bedding material. The ammonia levels must be out of this world unless you clean their tub every single day.

Harlan Teklad sells many types of bedding material. Some are expensive, but dustless. There is even a product that looks like a nice thick paper towel. It's made out of cotton and the rats shred it up to make bedding, and it absorbs the urine and holds the feces as well.

Please don't keep them on nothing at all. That's just cruel.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Please don't keep them on nothing at all. That's just cruel.

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I agree!

Still have no issues. Nobody is walking in pee or poop.

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Originally Posted by Bettacreek

Still have no issues. Nobody is walking in pee or poop.

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I'm really skeptical about this, because it's not realistic. You've also failed to answer a question.
How often do you clean these tubs?

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. Imagine this scenario. Someone sprays urine all over your kitchen floor. It dries up before you get there but you can smell it, and your standing all over it even though it's not wet anymore. Would you really want to eat off of that floor?

Get the newspaper bedding. The puddles are drying up because they're being spread around by their feet and drying up on their feet. Even though you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there.

And I'm sure lots of us would like to see pictures of these animals.

I try not to be aggressive on this forum, but Becky makes a great point regarding your feeders' psychological health.

I am DEATHLY allergic to my rats and their bedding, but I make it work, and I do it with my animals' best interest in mind.

If you positively cannot keep rodents, then do not keep them. Find a cheap option regarding how to access feeders as you need them.

But if you breed to feed, I vehemently feel that you need to respect the species you are feeding, and that includes understanding what they need to thrive.

Build a rack and use furnace filters to block the dust, find an option... I have about 3 types of allergen filters near my rats, I clean them 3x as often as most people. I experiment with different beddings AND I ensure they have what they need to be healthy.

Bruce

Your question was answered in a previous post. And, no, puddles are not drying. They are not unhealthy, they're not crawling through wastes.

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Originally Posted by Bettacreek

Your question was answered in a previous post. And, no, puddles are not drying. They are not unhealthy, they're not crawling through wastes.

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Then where is the pee going?
Mice and rats pee every half hour or more. It has to go somewhere.

Actually, it's set up in a way that it goes to a ditch, which I have actually put paper towels in, so that it's easier to clean, then the tubs are sprayed every other day. So far, no issues.

If the pee is flowing to a ditch, then everywhere it was has a layer of pee on it. Same with droppings, which don't flow away, but get walked on. Pee is not clean water, to not leave a nasty residue. Even a layer of absorbant paper would be better than nothing. Would you pee on a slanted floor and walk around barefoot? Even though the pee mostly flowed off the floor to one side, there's still some there.

Try equine fresh. I had trouble with allergies with other beddings but this has worked well for me and its cheap.

How about using paper towel as bedding?

surely there's some kind of shredded paper that's usable as rodent bedding, right?

Lets put it this way. You either do whats best for the animals and buy them bedding and suck it up...or you buy frozen.:gj:

my feelings are if you cant provide what they need to be healthy i know you say they are healthy and i respect that but i know that i have several tubs set up for mouse breeding with a couple inches of aspen bedding in each and i clean them twice a week because of the large amounts of urine and poo. so for you my suggestions is buying frozen rodents.

I've tested paper towels for bedding, but, it really doesn't absorb well at all, and you have to clean it out constantly (several times per day).

"If the pee is flowing to a ditch, then everywhere it was has a layer of pee on it. Same with droppings, which don't flow away, but get walked on."

The droppings, do, in fact, roll for the ditch. As far as the pee on the floor, baby wipes have helped keep it from being sticky, but, again, it's time consuming and has to be done constantly.


Equine fresh, is that the pelleted pine? I've seen it at Tractor Supply, but haven't tried it (pine drives me nuts), though I've thought of it. Is it dusty at all? I've used Yesterday's News with a little bit of success, but the bottom is usually dusty, plus when they pee on it, it crumbles and then dries into a dust, causing problems.

One thing I used to do when i had a pet rat is I would take newspaper and put it through my moms shredder then put it in his cage did this for about 2 years then had to give him to a friend cuz I got my BP. It allowed him to all the things rodents like to do and absorbed urine, also its cheap and dust free

dude, seriously?

even with 4 mice in a 20qt, your looking at a helluva lot of byproducts to be left around in a 2-3 day period. You say when you tried babywipes you had to wipe it down several times a day to keep the ick away. Thats pretty much admitting that you do have ick problems NOT cleaning the tubs. That's very cruel to keep the animals like that for a variety of reasons, not to mention sanitation. Do you really want to feed your snake urine encrusted mice? Are your allergies so bad that you can't even lay down a couple layers of newspaper? Seriously, ANYTHING is better than nothing. I have a hard time believing you are also not having any smell problems this way. And the smell to you, is 100x worse for the mice in the cage, as they not only have much more sensitive noses, but are right IN the urine and feces they have left, and have no escape. I really don't see how you have accomplished said "ditch" unless you have your tub tilted at an angle. If so, that angle must be pretty steep if all the feces runs down into it as well. So steep in fact, I bet your mice slide down into the nasty pool of piss'n'poo. And to me that doesn't sound like a mouse version of a fun waterpark. WooHoo would probably not be their response. More like Pee Ewww. Torturing your mice just to provide food for your snake sounds pretty cruel to me.

Well, got some Equine Fresh at TSC, and although I'm a little sneezy, at least I'm not breaking out in hives or suffocating. We'll see how it works in the long run, and if it doesn't, then, the local university always has shredded paper that I can get for free. Then, if neither work, I'll try Cell-sorb, but I'm putting it last because I'm assuming that it's like Yesterday's News. Anyways, thanks to those who actually put forth something useful, instead of just ranting and raving.

I'd think the shredded paper would be something you wouldn't react to, and it won't have dust.

you will have great results with the pine pellets....just dont have pinks on it they will suffocate.

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Originally Posted by stangs13

you will have great results with the pine pellets....just dont have pinks on it they will suffocate.

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Really? I have never seen that happen and have had loads of pinks on it.

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Originally Posted by stangs13

you will have great results with the pine pellets....just dont have pinks on it they will suffocate.

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Do you mean in the nest itself or the entire cage? I was planning on using nesting material on top of the pine pellets so that they don't have to sleep on the hard pellets.

As far as shredded paper goes, actually, if the pine pellets work, I'll probably use the shredded paper for nesting material for the adults and older litters, then paper towels for nesting material for the mommas with young litters.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Really? I have never seen that happen and have had loads of pinks on it.

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The dust from the breaking down of the pellet will clog their nostrils and you can lose pinkies. Mothers are usually really good about cleaning up dead pinks so you may not see it or why they passed.

Some females don't use any bedding and may be pushing the pellets aside, but I have seen many pinks with nostrils lined with dust if they happen to give birth while still in the breeding tubs (where pellets are).

Interesting..Never saw that or noticed a loss of pinkies. I'm back to using Aspen these days. I wasn't happy with Pine and the amount of sneezing. I might use pelleted pine with a sprinkling of Aspen due to price.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Interesting..Never saw that or noticed a loss of pinkies. I'm back to using Aspen these days. I wasn't happy with Pine and the amount of sneezing. I might use pelleted pine with a sprinkling of Aspen due to price.

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Yea, I know people use it just fine and keep their numbers up, it's just something to consider.

Nowadays I only give aspen for the first week or more just because it's cheaper and fluffier for nest making, plus it's only one girl and she doesn't need the pellets high level of liquid/stank absorbency, aspen works just fine.

After the two week mark, its definitely all pellets.

check out diamond soft by Harlan... I use it for both my snakes and rats and it works wonders with absorbing pee and what not. 17.99 for a 20lb bag through cold bloods.com... I use about a bag per month for 18 snakes and 28 rats.