UTH Questions/Issues

I have a new baby ball coming in (should be here tomorrow)
This will be my first ball and needless to say we are excited.

I have been reading and absorbing as much as I can in preperation of his arrival.

This weekend I scrubbed out the aquarium we have for him (20G) and got it ready to go. I have a Walmart thermostat with inside/outside and humidity measurements. The probe is attached inside of the hide to get an accurate reading. I have coconut bark as a substrate. The screen top has been covered with lexan and I am currently playing with how much to leave uncovered to keep humidity at the appropriate level.

My problem is that the temp sucks with a UTH. The ambient is ~68 and the temp in the hide (which is over the UTH) is ~73.

Im going to replace the UTH and make sure that it is working correctly (It really doesnt get that warm). What I am wondering is can I go with a larger UTH so that the overall ambient is raised?

Thinking about going with the cobramat as it says its designed to run @ 100 degrees, which should work very well with out house being in the high 60's during the really cold parts of winter.

Finally, is there any disadvantage in wrapping the silver radiant insulatation on the sides and back of the tank to retain some of the heat?

Hi,

I would put some nice aquarium background on the back and two sides before the insulation - but that is mainly because I think it looks better.

One question does pop into my mind though.

How deep is your substrate and what is the temp on the glass bottom directly above the heatmat?


dr del

The substrate is about 1" deep above the heat mat

I havent tested the temp
I bought a "hi temp" heat mat today on the reccomendation of someone local. It was working great until the bottom of the tank cracked.
So Im off to buy a new tank and try again

Quote:

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Originally Posted by uafgrad

The substrate is about 1" deep above the heat mat

I havent tested the temp
I bought a "hi temp" heat mat today on the reccomendation of someone local. It was working great until the bottom of the tank cracked.
So Im off to buy a new tank and try again

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For almost all UTH's, your going to have to use a thermostat because they get too hot.
The bottom broke from the heat? If so, it was WAY too hot. How are you recording your temperatures?

I agree its way too hot, that was why I was trying it out today and make sure that everything is up to snuff
I have a digital thermometer (ala walmart special) that has one probe on the underside of the hot hide and the unit itself is on the cool side

Broke down and bought a lamp today with an IR bulb. I think that is the only way I am going to be able to keep temp at a reasonable level

I think you need to invest in a thermostat.

A thermostat regulates the heat from your UTH while your thermometer just reads how hot the bottom of your tank is.

Most heat sources running wide open and unregulated by a thermostat get way too hot for a snake.

A lot of people use Helix, Herpstat, and Johnson thermostats. I have experience with Helix and Herpstat and they are both excellent products.

Im going to order a T Stat

My problem is that with two heat mats running wide open, Im only getting a cage temp in the low 70's.
Im going to order a T Stat and IR Temp gun this week, have looked in town but no one carries anything like that. In fact, PETCO is currently out of all heat mats and only have heat rocks (which they told me work better, I didnt take the bait)

I added a 75w IR lamp last night to see if I could get the temp up. It raised the ambien temp some and raised the temp in the "hot hide" way too much. Im now playing with lamp position to try and get the ambient temp up a few more degrees and cool the hot hide down about 10 degrees.

Hi,

OK. I think, since your changing tanks anyway it might be a really good idea to have a thinner layer of insulating material on the bottom of the tank.

The problem is your heat mats are trying to heat through way too much substrate and, as a consequence, have to run hot enough they could seriously burn your snake should he burrow down at any point. :(

Try newspaper - no more than two layers should be fine.

Measure the temps directly on the glass first and try and get them to be regulated around 94f.

Then measure the temp inside the hot side hide - but make sure your snake can never come into contact with temps hot enough to crack glass.


dr del

Just bought a IR temp gun today, should be here by this weekend.
Need to do some more research on TStats, but will oreder one in the next day or two

As for newspaper..... It is hard to keep humidity up in the cage with the coconut husk and a almost completely sealed lid (last 3" are unsealed) With all of that I was still getting humidity in the 30% range after 18hours. Misting twice a day keeps the humidity around 60%. I dont know if I could keep it up with newspaper.

Hi,

Well a lot of people only have the section where the lamp is unsealed if they use a lamp I think.

Or you could possibly use a humid hide if you have room for 3 hides he can fit in.

But, to be honest, temps are a bit more important than humidity unless he is in shed at the moment. Especially if you are getting max temps on the warm side of low 70's f.

At those temps his immune system could be weakened leading to him catching something, and I certainly don't think he would be able to digest his food easily.

And a bad burn is a lot more serious than a stuck shed. That's just my opinion mind you as I stopped using anything but newspaper once I saw how much they actually P.

Could you use a wider water bowl? Or just try a very thin layer of the substrate - its the thickness of it that is stopping the heat getting through in all likelyhood.

You need something to control the UTH's though - as mentioned a lamp dimmer will do at a push unless your temps are very variable in the room he is in.

As mentioned before you should make sure he cannot get access to temps that will burn him but equally make sure he does get the temps he needs to survive.

**edit**

Just a thought - what are the temps in your room? Just to see how much work any heater on your tank would have to do.

**end edit**


dr del

First off, thank you for your help, I truly appreciate all of the advice

When I took him home today, I covered the top and two sides with a thick towel
This raised the ambient side to 77 and the hot hide to 86.
There already is a 6" or so water bowl in there, but I could go deeper.
As soon as I get the IR temp gun in Im going to see how hot the glass is. At this point, it is warm to the touch but not certainly hot. How hot is too hot?

As of right now, he is happily under the warm hide hanging out

Thanks again

What is the best TStat for the money?

Are any of the ~$50 models adequate, or do I need to break down and buy the Ferrari

Just a thought: Your body temp is 98F and it is warm to your touch... I'm thinking it might be too hot for the snake.

As for the t'stat, I have only ever used the Helix and Herpstat brands and so I am unable to answer that question for you. I will share that a reliable t'stat is everything; well, humidity is important too! ;)

what do you think of this product? good, bad??
http://www.petsolutions.com/default....7501&SID=SHZIL

Hi,

Some people have used it and report no problems, some say it has a lot or variance in the temps and some say it's a piece of poop. :)

I know both ranco and johnsons (sp?) have a good reputation with most people for only a little more.

They are all on/ off thermostats which cannot be used with lamps though - for those you would need a proportional thermostat like a helix or a herpstat.


dr del

Well Im even more frustated at this point

As of yesterday afternoon when I picked up my snake, my UTHs had been plugged in for 18+ hours and were giving an ambien temp of mid 70's and a surface temp on top of the substrate at about 77 which made the cool side perfect ( as I understand it) and with the IR lamp, I was carrying a hot hide (probe on inside of hide) at 86. I thought everything was perfect.

Went to check on him (temps/humidity) as I was getting ready for bed and my cool side was showing hotter than the hot side. This caused a minor panic as I assumed that the the thermometer (digital) was failing. So I open up the tank and feel the cool side substrate and its warm. I then move the substrate out of the way and touch the glass and its hot, like dont want to leave my fingers on it hot. Needless to say I didnt know what was going on. I unplugged the UTH(s) and watched the temp throughtout the night. It actually held the temp fairly well (I covered the tank with a thick towel)

So Im back to square one so to say. Im ordering a TStat today and having it expidited to me. I have called every pet store locally and there are none. Hopefully that will help.

So Im thinking.....
If I remove the coconut husk and go with newspapers for lining, I will have an easier time with thermoregulation since there is not an insulation layer between heat source and snake. That will potentially produce problems for me with humidity (likely will). So I was thinking about adding a warm air humidifier to it. Many years ago I used one when I had Iguanas to keep humidity up and temp up. As long as I maintain humidity in the 60% range and the temps in an appropriate range, can anyone think of a problem with using a warm air humidifier?

I'm gonna recommend that you go to Wal Mart and get a Sterilite storage tub, and keep the snake in that while you are trying to get the tank setup properly.

The tubs are cheap and easy to get the levels right. I fought a glass tank for a few months, always getting close, but never proper. When I switched to a tub, it was stable in one evening.

I know some people prefer glass, and I'm not trying to steer you away from it, but I bet you will find it less stressful if you're not worrying about hurting the snake in the meantime. You can also use the tub to store the snake when you're cleaning the glass tank, too.

Also, Dr Del is right on about the newspaper. It's way less of a headache than any other stuff. I've been using a rheostat (lamp dimmer) for my UTH for close to a year, and yeah, it requires a little tweaking now and then, but if you monitor your temps (which you need to do even with a t-stat), it's not bad, especially if you only have 1 snake.

If you need more humidity from the water dish, you want a wider bowl, not a deeper bowl. A bowl that's 6" in diameter and 1" deep will generate more humidity than a 5" diameter bowl that's 6" deep. It's about the surface area, not the volume.

Good luck!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChrisBowsman

I'm gonna recommend that you go to Wal Mart and get a Sterilite storage tub, and keep the snake in that while you are trying to get the tank setup properly.

The tubs are cheap and easy to get the levels right. I fought a glass tank for a few months, always getting close, but never proper. When I switched to a tub, it was stable in one evening.

I know some people prefer glass, and I'm not trying to steer you away from it, but I bet you will find it less stressful if you're not worrying about hurting the snake in the meantime. You can also use the tub to store the snake when you're cleaning the glass tank, too.

Also, Dr Del is right on about the newspaper. It's way less of a headache than any other stuff. I've been using a rheostat (lamp dimmer) for my UTH for close to a year, and yeah, it requires a little tweaking now and then, but if you monitor your temps (which you need to do even with a t-stat), it's not bad, especially if you only have 1 snake.

If you need more humidity from the water dish, you want a wider bowl, not a deeper bowl. A bowl that's 6" in diameter and 1" deep will generate more humidity than a 5" diameter bowl that's 6" deep. It's about the surface area, not the volume.

Good luck!

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Thanks
I actually have one of the sterlite containers and I think I might do that until I can get things worked out with the tank.
The bowl is less than 1" deep, its irregular shape, but atleast 6" around.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...10000003+90401

do you think this would work to turn down an UTH?

That would work for a short term solution. I have several of the zoo med tstats that you posted and they can have a pretty big temp swing. I use them for temp housing most of the time now. Johnson and Ranco have reasonable pricing and would work much better. Try reptilebasics.com for the thermostat. I have found that Helix works very well for me and you can find a deal if you look. I got one of mine used on KS for $50 and it works perfectly. I find tubs way easier to maintain temps in as opposed to glass.

Well I switched the IR bulb to a CEH and the ambient is running at 81 and the hot hide is 88, so as long as that continues Ill be happy. So far the humidity has stayed solid at 60%, but Im keeping a close eye on it and will adjust misting as needed.
Im going to order a TStat, just trying to decide between Helix and Herpstat. Will keep an eye out for a used one.