New Snake Owner - Lots of questions

Okay, so I bought 3 month old Pandora:snake: at a reptile exhibit exactly a week ago. I set up her 10 gallon tank (two identical hides, shredded aspen substrate, heating pad, thermometer with probe, hygrometer, 2 plastic plants, water dish, wooden log) and left her alone for a few days. I know most people recommend a week but she seemed very social and didn't mind being handled. I fed her a live rat pup (only a few days old) on Tuesday and she devoured that thing within a few seconds, so I figure she's doing fine.:gj:

Lo and behold, I pick her up on Thursday only to find her covered in tiny black dots.:omg: I flip out and my boyfriend and I go on a mission to find out if this is a sign of mites. Luckily, I think I caught it rather early before they got a chance to spread. So I washed out her tank and all the decoration with scolding hot water, bleach, vinegar, dish soap, renewed the substrate and baked the log in the oven and gave her a few good soaks. I grabbed something called 'Mite Off' by Zoo Med and sprayed her and the tank a few times and left her alone.

I went to pick her up yesterday and noticed her eyes seemed a little gray, so I figured she's probably about to shed. However, I wanted to handle her to see if the mites were gone and she very oddly curled up into a tight ball and almost made a (?)hissing(?) noise.:confused: I obviously got a little scared and just as I was about to put her in my hand, she twitched a little. I thought she was about to bite so I set her back down quickly (I didn't drop her). I'm a very anal and paranoid person though and I'm worried that the sudden movement of putting her back down might have scared her. I know that dropping a snake can be very traumatic and they loose trust in you. Today when I went to pick her up again, she curled up into a very tight ball which is not like her. I'm thinking maybe she is about to shed and just wants to be left alone but the sound she made yesterday threw me off quite a bit. :tears:

So, I'm basically just unsure as to what to do with her for the next few days and whether or not to leave her alone. If she is in the process of shedding, I don't want to pick her up and soak her if she's going to react the way she did. At what point in the shedding process should I be soaking her anyway? Also, I'm hoping somebody can tell me if her behavior is normal. She spends quite a bit of time in her hide and I want her to move around her tank a bit more. Obviously I know this comes with time but I'm just thrown back by her not letting me handle her.

I was also planning on feeding her on Monday, but now I'm not so sure.
Looking forward to replies =]

- Helena

sounds like she is going into shed. Go to the husbandry threads and you will find a sticky about BP shedding. Congrats on your little Pandora! Hope everything goes ok from now on. I would leave her alone while she sheds.

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Originally Posted by RoyalGuardian

sounds like she is going into shed. Go to the husbandry threads and you will find a sticky about BP shedding. Congrats on your little Pandora! Hope everything goes ok from now on. I would leave her alone while she sheds.

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Good stuff, thanks for the advice
:)

dont be too worried about a bite, it happens sometimes and you just gotta take it if you wanna have this hobby, ya know, when i first got my pastel, he was kind of hissy, but it was all talk, everytime he hissed i made it a point to pick him up right after, to show him that i wasnt scared, and he never hisses anymore, just throwing in my 2 cents

1. If she is in shed leave her alone for a while - once she is done shedding you can check for mites and treat as needed -- I would suggest you pick up some Black Night instead of the stuff from the pet store.

2. You don't need to soak a ball unless it's had a bad shed - just make sure you have fresh water and proper humidity in the tank and let nature take it's course. You cn provide a humid hide as well.

3. Balls hiss and they ball up - especially babies -- yeah they will even nip at you. It's what they do -- if you show it fear it will pick up on that -- chill and the snake will chill - bites don't hurt.

4. If you want to see a snake moving around it's tank a lot -- you picked the wrong species -- a happy ball is one that is hiding. They will tend to be more active at dusk and dawn -- but for the most part balled up in a tight hide is what they do.

Good luck!

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I went to pick her up yesterday and noticed her eyes seemed a little gray, so I figured she's probably about to shed. However, I wanted to handle her to see if the mites were gone and she very oddly curled up into a tight ball and almost made a (?)hissing(?) noise.:confused:

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Like someone said, she's probably in shed. You can still handle her, but most(including myself) like to leave them alone until they are done with this process.

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I obviously got a little scared and just as I was about to put her in my hand, she twitched a little. I thought she was about to bite so I set her back down quickly (I didn't drop her).

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You don't want to get into the habit of putting her down every time she hisses, granted she might be shedding. If you put her down every time she hisses, then she knows that's all she has to do to get you to leave her alone and then you'll never be able to handle her without her hissing or threatning to bite. Like someone said, getting bit kinda comes along with the territory.

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I'm a very anal and paranoid person though and I'm worried that the sudden movement of putting her back down might have scared her. I know that dropping a snake can be very traumatic and they loose trust in you. Today when I went to pick her up again, she curled up into a very tight ball which is not like her. I'm thinking maybe she is about to shed and just wants to be left alone but the sound she made yesterday threw me off quite a bit. :tears:

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She'll be fine. They are called Ball Pythons for a reason. Lol. My first one used to curl into a ball all the time, but after a few weeks are consistent handling he is great and doesn't do it anymore.

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So, I'm basically just unsure as to what to do with her for the next few days and whether or not to leave her alone. If she is in the process of shedding, I don't want to pick her up and soak her if she's going to react the way she did. At what point in the shedding process should I be soaking her anyway?

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Soaking is only nessecary during the shedding process if the animal has stuck shed. Let her shed on her own. Just bump the humidity up to abot 70 or so if you haven't already

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Also, I'm hoping somebody can tell me if her behavior is normal. She spends quite a bit of time in her hide and I want her to move around her tank a bit more. Obviously I know this comes with time but I'm just thrown back by her not letting me handle her.

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They are most active at night and spend most of their time in their hides during the day, so it's completely normal. I usually don't see mine during the day unless I take them out for a handling session..

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I was also planning on feeding her on Monday, but now I'm not so sure.
Looking forward to replies =]

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She should be fine for you to feed her.:gj:

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Originally Posted by Tosha_Mc

1. If she is in shed leave her alone for a while - once she is done shedding you can check for mites and treat as needed -- I would suggest you pick up some Black Night instead of the stuff from the pet store.

2. You don't need to soak a ball unless it's had a bad shed - just make sure you have fresh water and proper humidity in the tank and let nature take it's course. You cn provide a humid hide as well.

3. Balls hiss and they ball up - especially babies -- yeah they will even nip at you. It's what they do -- if you show it fear it will pick up on that -- chill and the snake will chill - bites don't hurt.

4. If you want to see a snake moving around it's tank a lot -- you picked the wrong species -- a happy ball is one that is hiding. They will tend to be more active at dusk and dawn -- but for the most part balled up in a tight hide is what they do.

Good luck!

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I guess I should have refreshed the page before I wrote mine. Lol. Sorry!

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Originally Posted by danthony428

dont be too worried about a bite, it happens sometimes and you just gotta take it if you wanna have this hobby, ya know, when i first got my pastel, he was kind of hissy, but it was all talk, everytime he hissed i made it a point to pick him up right after, to show him that i wasnt scared, and he never hisses anymore, just throwing in my 2 cents

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So the hissing is normal and not a sign that she's about to murder me? :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Tosha_Mc

1. If she is in shed leave her alone for a while - once she is done shedding you can check for mites and treat as needed -- I would suggest you pick up some Black Night instead of the stuff from the pet store.

2. You don't need to soak a ball unless it's had a bad shed - just make sure you have fresh water and proper humidity in the tank and let nature take it's course. You cn provide a humid hide as well.

3. Balls hiss and they ball up - especially babies -- yeah they will even nip at you. It's what they do -- if you show it fear it will pick up on that -- chill and the snake will chill - bites don't hurt.

4. If you want to see a snake moving around it's tank a lot -- you picked the wrong species -- a happy ball is one that is hiding. They will tend to be more active at dusk and dawn -- but for the most part balled up in a tight hide is what they do.

Good luck!

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So what exactly is a humid hide?

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Originally Posted by JayBP

Like someone said, she's probably in shed. You can still handle her, but most(including myself) like to leave them alone until they are done with this process.



You don't want to get into the habit of putting her down every time she hisses, granted she might be shedding. If you put her down every time she hisses, then she knows that's all she has to do to get you to leave her alone and then you'll never be able to handle her without her hissing or threatning to bite. Like someone said, getting bit kinda comes along with the territory.


She'll be fine. They are called Ball Pythons for a reason. Lol. My first one used to curl into a ball all the time, but after a few weeks are consistent handling he is great and doesn't do it anymore.



Soaking is only nessecary during the shedding process if the animal has stuck shed. Let her shed on her own. Just bump the humidity up to abot 70 or so if you haven't already



They are most active at night and spend most of their time in their hides during the day, so it's completely normal. I usually don't see mine during the day unless I take them out for a handling session..



She should be fine for you to feed her.:gj:

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Great! Perfect answer. Thanks for the reply and the advice, I'll definately keep it all in mind. I think I worry too much :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Pandora

So what exactly is a humid hide?

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You can take a regular hide and add some moist sphagnum moss in there to raise the humidity.

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Originally Posted by JayBP

You can take a regular hide and add some moist sphagnum moss in there to raise the humidity.

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Aha I see.
Well, I mist the tank roughly once a day and have a towel over it to keep in humidity which is currently just above 70%
So I don't think there's a need for a humid hide.
=]

Judging by your location, I'm going to assume your talking about the Ontario Reptile and Aquatics Expo in Mississauga, correct? This is the expo I also go to. If you don't mind could you tell me who your bought your snake from? Just so I know to stay away from them in the future.

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Originally Posted by Pandora

So the hissing is normal and not a sign that she's about to murder me? :rofl:

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Its a sign that you need to put that snake down and let it acclimate.

You stated you knew it needs a week but have been handling it since day two, feeding early, etc.

The stress of overhandling a snake, especially a young snake is cumulative.

I don't handle new snakes till they've taken about 4 feeds. That snakes whole world has been upended, sounds like you are doing research, so why aren't you following it?

Let it shed, let it acclimate, and let it get another 3 feeds in... then start with small handling sessions.

Your snake has a very limited range of communications, hissing is one of them.

The snake's need for security should supercede your desire to play with it.

Bruce

And watch for those mites to come back... without proper treatment they'll likely come back.

Bruce

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Originally Posted by Pwilliams58

Judging by your location, I'm going to assume your talking about the Ontario Reptile and Aquatics Expo in Mississauga, correct? This is the expo I also go to. If you don't mind could you tell me who your bought your snake from? Just so I know to stay away from them in the future.

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Why would you avoid the breeder? They're reputable, not to mention she probably got the mites from the log I bought or just from the other snakes at the show. She didn't have them upon purchase.

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Originally Posted by Bruce Whitehead

And watch for those mites to come back... without proper treatment they'll likely come back.

Bruce

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And how do you suggest I prevent them? Other than PAM

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Originally Posted by Pandora

And how do you suggest I prevent them? Other than PAM

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PAM is the only way I've really heard of getting rid of them for good. Other stuff only kills them off temporarily, but before you know it, they're back.

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Originally Posted by JayBP

PAM is the only way I've really heard of getting rid of them for good. Other stuff only kills them off temporarily, but before you know it, they're back.

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Well in that case, I'm doing everything in my power to prevent them.

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Originally Posted by Pandora

Why would you avoid the breeder? They're reputable, not to mention she probably got the mites from the log I bought or just from the other snakes at the show. She didn't have them upon purchase.

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Both of those scenarios seem fairly unlikely to me...

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Originally Posted by Pwilliams58

Both of those scenarios seem fairly unlikely to me...

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Funny, because everybody I've spoken to, including vets, other reptile owners and several different breeders said those are probably the most likely possibilities. If she had mites when I got her I would have noticed somewhere within the half hour I spent handling her. These mites came several days after I brought her home. I'm not here to ruin a breeder's reputation. Adieu

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Originally Posted by Pandora

Funny, because everybody I've spoken to, including vets, other reptile owners and several different breeders said those are probably the most likely possibilities. If she had mites when I got her I would have noticed somewhere within the half hour I spent handling her. These mites came several days after I brought her home. I'm not here to ruin a breeder's reputation. Adieu

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I understand, however I am correct about the expo right?

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Originally Posted by Pwilliams58

I understand, however I am correct about the expo right?

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That's correct. Maybe I'll see you there November 16th?

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Originally Posted by Pandora

That's correct. Maybe I'll see you there November 16th?

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You sure will, I'm always there, come NEXT septembers show, I'll be a vendor! And I believe the location of it is moving by then, I forget where though, but its not too far from where it is now.

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Originally Posted by Pwilliams58

You sure will, I'm always there, come NEXT septembers show, I'll be a vendor! And I believe the location of it is moving by then, I forget where though, but its not too far from where it is now.

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Probably the International Center on airport road right by Arrow Hall

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Originally Posted by Pandora

Probably the International Center on airport road right by Arrow Hall

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AH! yes thats it.

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Originally Posted by Pandora

Funny, because everybody I've spoken to, including vets, other reptile owners and several different breeders said those are probably the most likely possibilities. If she had mites when I got her I would have noticed somewhere within the half hour I spent handling her. These mites came several days after I brought her home. I'm not here to ruin a breeder's reputation. Adieu

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Actually, I've read that mites can hide in a snakes cloaca for years before being discovered, so there is definitely a possibility it was there when the snake was purchased.

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Originally Posted by JayBP

Actually, I've read that mites can hide in a snakes cloaca for years before being discovered, so there is definitely a possibility it was there when the snake was purchased.

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Well they're actually a very reputable breeder. Either way, the problem has been dealt with.

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Originally Posted by Pandora

Well they're actually a very reputable breeder. Either way, the problem has been dealt with.

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The fact that it was a "reputable" breeder doesn't mean a thing. Anyone can get mites.

What does PAM have to do with getting rid of mites. I dont have a case of them but want to do what I can to prevent them?

** nevermind i jumped at that question...i got the answer already**

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Originally Posted by Lunawf

What does PAM have to do with getting rid of mites. I dont have a case of them but want to do what I can to prevent them?

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Read up on some threads specifically about mites.

a bite from a little guy is no be deal at all. my baay tried to bite me but he's so tiny that it just felt like something wet tapped my hand. my other guy, the big one in the house actually latched on like he was going to kill and eat my hand. that was pretty interesting.

I started a thread about this very thing.
It's titled "Traumatic experience". We had a mite issue at the same time as the snake was shedding.

I never noticed any mites either when we first purchased, but we didn't do much handling for a couple weeks.

However, after a month or so of having our snake, we noticed the mites.

I don't know where they came from, but I had just switched substrates from Repti-Bark to the Eco-Earth condensed coconut husk.
A few days later we noticed the mites. Some people that responeded to my thread said they believe the Eco-Earth was responsible for their mites as well.

Anyway. Be diligent. I washed everything in the tank every week in mild bleach water. Baked it afterward in the oven. Used newsprint for substrate for a month. Soaked the snake in a lukewarm bath every few days. And best of all...I used PAM (Provent A Mite). The stuff worked great.

I now use aspen purchased at Wal Mart. They don't have reptiles, so I don't worry about mites from there. However, I still dump all the aspen in a garbage bag and spary it with PAM and then give it a good shake.

I still give the plants, hides and log a quick spray every few weeks when I'm doing tank maintenance.
It may be overkill, but I don't want to go through it again and I imagine my snake doesn't either.

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Originally Posted by deltaneutral

I started a thread about this very thing.
It's titled "Traumatic experience". We had a mite issue at the same time as the snake was shedding.

I never noticed any mites either when we first purchased, but we didn't do much handling for a couple weeks.

However, after a month or so of having our snake, we noticed the mites.

I don't know where they came from, but I had just switched substrates from Repti-Bark to the Eco-Earth condensed coconut husk.
A few days later we noticed the mites. Some people that responeded to my thread said they believe the Eco-Earth was responsible for their mites as well.

Anyway. Be diligent. I washed everything in the tank every week in mild bleach water. Baked it afterward in the oven. Used newsprint for substrate for a month. Soaked the snake in a lukewarm bath every few days. And best of all...I used PAM (Provent A Mite). The stuff worked great.

I now use aspen purchased at Wal Mart. They don't have reptiles, so I don't worry about mites from there. However, I still dump all the aspen in a garbage bag and spary it with PAM and then give it a good shake.

I still give the plants, hides and log a quick spray every few weeks when I'm doing tank maintenance.
It may be overkill, but I don't want to go through it again and I imagine my snake doesn't either.

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I'll keep all that in mind. Thanks for the advice and insight!