Multiple Hides ???

Multiple Hides ???

I know I am likely to stir a giant pot here but I have a question. As previously mentioned it has been a good number of years that I had not kept snakes but in my past I had many reptiles and kept them very happy, feeding and doing their thing for as long as I had them [everything from balls, kings, igs, and even a wild caught rattler (cute little fellow he was)].

Concerning hides, it appears that is very in fad to keep two hides, one on warm side one on opposite side, but here is my question. Is it typical for a Ball that lives in the wild to occupy multiple holes, dependant on temp? And if so are we to believe that they are really so picky as to only pick two identical holes? I understand that there is a fear of an animal overheating or under heating in search of cover of comfort, but I would say this would not be the norm, more the exception. This being the case, isn't it safe to assume, on a majority of cases, if provided the essentials [fresh water, fresh substrate, ample food, warm, cool and basking areas, and cover for when they choose to, are not most animals going to thrive? Or is all of this precaution partly due to the issue with Balls being so picky sometimes, along with all of the issues that everyone has gone thru with wild caught animals of the past? I know I am rambling on and what not, but isn't there more than one way to go about it? I see so many times, someone posts asking for input and instead they are given a shopping list. What works for some, may not work for others. In basic terms, each of our dwellings that these snake live in are micro systems and each is going to be very different.

My ball is very happy, feeding on live small/med rats every 7 days, loves going outside, walks on the beach, etc. She is very scheduled on her time in her hide, on her limb over the water and basking in the heat lamp when it is on [on timer]. She does very well self regulating, does not look around like she is looking to escape, never shown any sign of aggression and since the kids and I handle her daily, she does not pull back any time you try to pick her up or touch her. She is very alert and doing very well. Temps and Humidity is all in check. One half log hide, large water dish, limb, and Repitbark Substrate [used to be aspen, but changed to the bark as I like the way it looks as seems to give her a better base to move around on]. Also holds the temp probes where I want them to ensure proper belly temp monitoring.

Sorry if these comments incite any ill feelings, rage, half log hating, blurred vision, restless legs syndrome, irritable bowel syndrome, soft stool, nausea, keyboard trauma, or generalized unpleasant thoughts.

Peace and love. Just my two pennies worth. :salute:

I only keep 1 hide, on the warm side. I also keep all of mine in tubs which are in a rack.

I think 2 hides is overkill unless they are in an all glass aquarium.

I think you have to do what works for that specific snake in your specific enclosure. Some ball pythons are incredibly shy or very picky about what hides they will use, others aren't. Some live in open glass enclosures in a busy livingroom, others live in dark racks in a quiet snake room.

Generally when we give advice here we try to give the basics, the most common sense, general advice that will start a newcomer to snakekeeping off on a good track. As they develop their own sense of what works for their own snake, they'll change and tweak things and that's a good thing really as long as it's always done for the benefit of that snake. :)

In the wild if a ball python doesn't like the temperature where it is at, it has the option of leaving and finding a burrow that suits it better. When we confine them to an enclosure we take that option away from them. Therefore if you utilize a UTH, it makes good sense to place one hide near the UTH and one at the cool end to provide the snake some options to be comfortable. That said, I use 2 hides in cages and only 1 in a rack. I don't like the 1/2 log hides for two reasons. They are porous and therefore less sanitary and they don't allow a snake to conceal itself entirely which I can only speculate may leave the snake feeling less secure. Your methods are not revolutionary or controversial. Many people use them successfully.

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Originally Posted by FIREball

I only keep 1 hide, on the warm side. I also keep all of mine in tubs which are in a rack.

I think 2 hides is overkill unless they are in an all glass aquarium.

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I have a 20L all glass but the back and one side is blocked with a background. The top is also foil covered cardboard to help keep the humid levels up with a cut out for vent and light.

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Originally Posted by dsirkle

Your methods are not revolutionary or controversial. Many people use them successfully.

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Not really proclaiming to be either, just curious why some have a 'my way or the highway' approach. I totally agree that forums such as these are a valuable resource for just about any interest one might have as I belong to many ranging from from archery, hunting, offroading & outdorrs, to hockey, politics, going green, community improvement, tattoos, music, photography, and of course our beloved replites. But some of what I read here almost comes off as speaking down to some of the newbs. Just think a "hey, this is what I have done, maybe it will work for you" has more milage than "dump this, buy that, set this on that, etc". Like I said at the beginning, just my $.02. :-)

While I agree there may have been previous responses lacking in a general tone of humanity. I highly dissagree that this is the norm. on this specific forum. I have found the majority of people on here to be open, inciteful, and polite. While I respect your difference in opinion, I do not agree with your opinion of a majority of folks on this forum. It simply isn't true. Thanks, and keep up the cnversation pieces. F.N.

While I agree there may have been previous responses lacking in a general tone of humanity. I highly dissagree that this is the norm. on this specific forum. I have found the majority of people on here to be open, inciteful, and polite. While I respect your difference in opinion, I do not agree with your opinion of a population of mannerless jerks on this forum. I hardly think it's worth making mention of. Let alone inciting a division of the community. Yes some things work for some people, while others do not. Everything is relative to each person and their situation. So bringing up the fact of a situation being circumstancial has nothing to do with hides. Just participate without adding angst. Thanks! T.F.N.

You need to do what works for you based on the fact that you know what work best for your animal(s)

Now when it comes to someone that has no previous experience with Ball Pythons there are things that I would recommend for their animals and 2 hides is one of them, it is based on experience and what I know will help a new owner provide optimum husbandry.

Once they gain the experience and know their animal they can/should experience and see what work best for them.

Personally I use one hide, some use it some don’t, however I would rather provide an hide to a BP that does not need it than not providing one to an animal that might. I do this based on MY animals and my current setting.

Occasionally I offer 2 hides (for young head shy animals) but it is rare, again it all comes down to know what work for each animal.

So as you can see what I recommend is not what I do.

Finally remember that captivity cannot be compared to the wild.

oops, mods please delete, this post was an error

I use one hide, and it is just large enough to where my BP can be curled up totally over the 4" flexwatt or in the middle or totally on the cool side.

This brings up another question in the same vein of the OP's: What size hide? snug and barely big enough to fit in seems to be the consensus, but some, like me, use larger to allow thermoregulation within the single hide, or for other reasons.

Some will say my hide is too big, but my BP has a day-night routine you could set your watch by, and never has refused a meal. Others might not be so lucky I guess.

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Originally Posted by tx_floyde

While I agree there may have been previous responses lacking in a general tone of humanity. I highly dissagree that this is the norm. on this specific forum. I have found the majority of people on here to be open, inciteful, and polite. While I respect your difference in opinion, I do not agree with your opinion of a population of mannerless jerks on this forum. I hardly think it's worth making mention of. Let alone inciting a division of the community. Yes some things work for some people, while others do not. Everything is relative to each person and their situation. So bringing up the fact of a situation being circumstancial has nothing to do with hides. Just participate without adding angst. Thanks! T.F.N.

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Unfortunately I think you have misunderstood my intent on my original post. I was gauging the populus on thier opinion on the multiple hide issue. I have a complete run down of my set up and experience as to circumvent the questions of such and minimize draging on the thread. I also do not believe I stated anywhere that I felt a "majoity" felt a certain way or this was the norm. I simple stated that "some" use a 2nd grade bully approach and I did not agree with it. I have no intention of dividing any community in fact I stride to bring them together. Funny how you repect my opinion and follow with an accusation of division. Not my doing at all. Healthy debate is the cornerstone of any community and although we may not all agree, we can all be civil. I am also confused as to where I am adding "angst" here. Please clarify.

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Originally Posted by simplechamp

I use one hide, and it is just large enough to where my BP can be curled up totally over the 4" flexwatt or in the middle or totally on the cool side.

This brings up another question in the same vein of the OP's: What size hide? snug and barely big enough to fit in seems to be the consensus, but some, like me, use larger to allow thermoregulation within the single hide, or for other reasons.

Some will say my hide is too big, but my BP has a day-night routine you could set your watch by, and never has refused a meal. Others might not be so lucky I guess.

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My girl is anti norm as well. She has always had a large half log, uses it and moves around as needed as one side is warmer than the other. She also has her routine that is quite regular, and eats like a champ. Almost scary how her feeding response is. I dare not move much around her when she is feeding mode. But give her a day, and she is the biggest sweetheart. Also seems to stick her head out if there is much movement in the room, especially in the morning when getting ready for work [me, not the snake]. Sometimes she'll come all the way out like she wants to be noticed. She is surely a joy.

my BP moves her hide around wherever she wants it. I was going to give her a second one, but she's doing well with just the one. She's eating great, and everything. So I figured I'd let her be. If she stops eating or something, I'll try adding a second hide. Until then, she just has the one.

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Originally Posted by halfwaynowhere

my BP moves her hide around wherever she wants it.

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what a self sufficient one!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by simplechamp

I use one hide, and it is just large enough to where my BP can be curled up totally over the 4" flexwatt or in the middle or totally on the cool side.

This brings up another question in the same vein of the OP's: What size hide? snug and barely big enough to fit in seems to be the consensus, but some, like me, use larger to allow thermoregulation within the single hide, or for other reasons.

Some will say my hide is too big, but my BP has a day-night routine you could set your watch by, and never has refused a meal. Others might not be so lucky I guess.

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I recommend two hides, both snug, to a new bp owner because ball pythons are naturally shy, and it'll at least get things comfortable until they have a stable environment.
Snug hides are preferred for ball-pythons because they are shy, and the snug fit provides security. Also one large hide will probably cause improper tempertures in the hide in comparison with the actual enclosures tempertures. Keep that in mind. ;]

For my rack, I use one hide. For vivariums I use two, because there is more space and it's usually a more vulnerable environment.

I know this is a thread revival, so I'll say it now......HOLY THREAD REVIVAL BATMAN!!
Moving on:
I know this was originally about multiple hides and it came up while searching for what i needed to know.
But my question is what if you have 4 hides? 2 on hot side and 2 on cool. I am getting the Reptile Basics Inc small hide box (2) for my 4 month old pastel and then I was thinking, well since they are shy and like to hide y not add another 2? Add 2 because of the same reason you add 2 in the first place so they don't have to choose. I mean the mroe hiding places the better right? Also the hides will be symetrical on both sides.

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Originally Posted by halfwaynowhere

my BP moves her hide around wherever she wants it. I was going to give her a second one, but she's doing well with just the one. She's eating great, and everything. So I figured I'd let her be. If she stops eating or something, I'll try adding a second hide. Until then, she just has the one.

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That is hilarious. :rofl:

I've just recently taken away my 3 yr old BP's second hide on the cool side. He's in a custom black boaphile cage, and he started to flip the cool side hide over and wrap himself around it. Now that I've removed it, he seems to enjoy sprawling out on the cool side. After feeding, he always goes into the warm hide. When he was a baby, he loved both hides. Once he hit 3.5ft, he started flipping the second one (even though both hides are identical in shape and size):hmm:. So, it just depends on the snake and it's surroundings.