Hairless rats?

Before I got into snakes, I was an avid rat lover. At one point in time, I bred true hairless rats, dumbos and siamese. The petstore here once told me that the hairless rats were preferred by snake breeders. Is this really true? Shouldn't the snakes get rats with fur instead of hairless rats?

No, feeder breeders do not prefer hairless rats because of the higher care they take and often poor lactating abilities. We want to have the biggest healthiest and largest producing rats out there, not junk rats.

That could be obtained with breeding either rex females to get the "hairless" double rex, or with true hairless carrier females to a hairless male. But, other than production issues, are there any reasons to feed hairless or any reasons not to?

Is there a correlation between hairless rats and quality? I don't see the connection as to why hairless rats are junk? I know some big named rat breeders that can provide all hairless rats upon request.

In terms of digestibility, given that virtually the only part of the rat that is undigested is the hair, it makes sense that a hairless rat would be easier to digest.

JonV

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Originally Posted by Bettacreek

That could be obtained with breeding either rex females to get the "hairless" double rex, or with true hairless carrier females to a hairless male. But, other than production issues, are there any reasons to feed hairless or any reasons not to?

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Lots of people have rex/wavy rats, its very common, but if your talking true hairless, no, it's not preferred, and there is no reason to concentrate on breeding hairless feeders for snakes. There just isn't any reason to prefer it nutrition wise.

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Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

Is there a correlation between hairless rats and quality? I don't see the connection as to why hairless rats are junk? I know some big named rat breeders that can provide all hairless rats upon request.

In terms of digestibility, given that virtually the only part of the rat that is undigested is the hair, it makes sense that a hairless rat would be easier to digest.

JonV

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Jon, I didn't mean that hairless are junk rats, just that feeder breeders want the very best, not junk. It was not intended to imply all hairless are junk rats.

True Hairless rats dont have hair and require higher protein and fat content to stay warm. Female hairless also tend to not lactate very well or at all. They have sensitive skin because they lack the hair, making small scratches and injuries more common.

My snakes poop all looks like a big brown turd, with no discernible hair. Maybe some snakes need to have hairless rats, but I have never heard of any reason why its necessary. They eat furry/feathered things in the wild, they are perfectly capable of handling fur whenever necessary. :)

As far as super rex's go I have seen no problem with them breeding and having babies. The only thing is, is that they eat and drink more so ive been told because of how hot they get. Its not that I prefer them or anything, its just when I see the only hairless out of a bunch that is a female my soft spot gets a little softer and I stick them in a grow up bin:oops:

NVM, super rex's do not have any problems anyways, Thanks Connie

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

As far as super rex's go I have seen no problem with them breeding and having babies. The only thing is, is that they eat and drink more so ive been told because of how hot they get. Its not that I prefer them or anything, its just when I see the only hairless out of a bunch that is a female my soft spot gets a little softer and I stick them in a grow up bin:oops:

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Super rexs are mock hairless or patchwork hairless, they aren't technically a true hairless rat which are a simple recessive genes.

I'm not sure if I remember correctly, but, I think they said something about better acceptance of a hairless rat. I'm not sure though, and I heard this years ago. Plus the added fact that the petstore also tells people that pine bedding and seed mix is healthy for the rats.
I just personally like the true hairless rats, and wasn't sure if there was anything actually special about them in the snake world or not. Some true hairless lines are being worked on to produce females that can raise their own young. Other people (myself included) would breed hairless females to hairless males, and use a wet nurse to raise the litter if it was necessary. Hairless do have other issues though, true hairless get eye abcesses and such, and double rex and true hairless both get cuts and infections easier than regulars.
For those who use rex rats, have you noticed any difference with feeding them? Are the snakes picky about the different texture of fur?

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Originally Posted by Bettacreek

I'm not sure if I remember correctly, but, I think they said something about better acceptance of a hairless rat. I'm not sure though, and I heard this years ago. Plus the added fact that the petstore also tells people that pine bedding and seed mix is healthy for the rats.
I just personally like the true hairless rats, and wasn't sure if there was anything actually special about them in the snake world or not. Some true hairless lines are being worked on to produce females that can raise their own young. Other people (myself included) would breed hairless females to hairless males, and use a wet nurse to raise the litter if it was necessary. Hairless do have other issues though, true hairless get eye abcesses and such, and double rex and true hairless both get cuts and infections easier than regulars.
For those who use rex rats, have you noticed any difference with feeding them? Are the snakes picky about the different texture of fur?

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Yea... pet store people aren't very smart I've noticed.

I have about half and half rex and smooth coated, and none of the snakes care. As long as it smells like a rat, looks like a rat, moves like a rat (or not LOL), they eat em. :D

The only snake I own that is picky is my spider BP, she only takes ASF now, but thats okay because I raise those too.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Super rexs are mock hairless or patchwork hairless, they aren't technically a true hairless rat which are a simple recessive genes.

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Yup, rex is a dominant gene. One rex gene causes crimpy or curly fur, two genes causes hair loss. Some stay totally hairless, others have furry legs and faces, others morph and change their look on a regular basis. True hairless is a recessive gene. One gene creates a normal looking rat, two creates a totally hairless rat (though occasionally some will keep little socks or furry faces).

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Yea... pet store people aren't very smart I've noticed.

I have about half and half rex and smooth coated, and none of the snakes care. As long as it smells like a rat, looks like a rat, moves like a rat (or not LOL), they eat em. :D

The only snake I own that is picky is my spider BP, she only takes ASF now, but thats okay because I raise those too.

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Good. Then I can work with rexes and not worry. :D Glad snakes aren't THAT picky. Lol.

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Originally Posted by Bettacreek

Yup, rex is a dominant gene. One rex gene causes crimpy or curly fur, two genes causes hair loss. Some stay totally hairless, others have furry legs and faces, others morph and change their look on a regular basis. True hairless is a recessive gene. One gene creates a normal looking rat, two creates a totally hairless rat (though occasionally some will keep little socks or furry faces).

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LOL, yea I know rat genetics pretty well, did you mean to quote me? :P Anywho, there are a few different genes that cause rexing/curling. Not just one. And I am sure there are more than 2 hairless genes to differing degrees of hairlessness.

Answer me this...Hy did I not have any hairless rats out of my pair of rex rats?

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Originally Posted by stangs13

Answer me this...Hy did I not have any hairless rats out of my pair of rex rats?

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You just missed on the odds Justin. It would be like breeding two pastels together and missing on the super pastel.

The parents are hets, but since rex and wavy are dominant (not sure if incomplete dominant, but I think so), they only need one gene to show the wavyyyyy.

Just "backing" you up. :)

"Anywho, there are a few different genes that cause rexing/curling. Not just one. And I am sure there are more than 2 hairless genes to differing degrees of hairlessness."

True, however, only one true hairless gene has been commonly available to the public. Rex is also the most common curling gene available to the public. Velveteens are still uncommon enough to escape most pet stores (at least from what I've heard). Although the harley gene was found in a petstore, it (as well as others) are still somewhat uncommon and not common in petstores or commonly made available to people who plan to breed for feeders.

Well I feed 40+ snakes per week on rats. I have yet to have a snake take a look at their live, fully furred rat dinner and mumble..."scuse me, would you mind shaving this for me first!" :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

You just missed on the odds Justin. It would be like breeding two pastels together and missing on the super pastel.

The parents are hets, but since rex and wavy are dominant (not sure if incomplete dominant, but I think so), they only need one gene to show the wavyyyyy.

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But there are standard colors in there too!

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Originally Posted by Bettacreek

Just "backing" you up. :)

"Anywho, there are a few different genes that cause rexing/curling. Not just one. And I am sure there are more than 2 hairless genes to differing degrees of hairlessness."

True, however, only one true hairless gene has been commonly available to the public. Rex is also the most common curling gene available to the public. Velveteens are still uncommon enough to escape most pet stores (at least from what I've heard). Although the harley gene was found in a petstore, it (as well as others) are still somewhat uncommon and not common in petstores or commonly made available to people who plan to breed for feeders.

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I can think of one instance where someone on a board had a fuzzy hairless, which is at least one other type of recessive hairlessness if they were correct in their descriptions of the parents and the offspring's phenotype.
[edit] You said common, not non-existent, my bad :P [/edit]

From my readings, there are something like 3 different genes that create the curly and wavy hair types, and they may or may not be compatible. That's all I'm saying. Not just specifically those describe in rat fancy literature like the harley and velveteen.

I am pretty sure the Harley gene was from a Russian Blue animal that was in a private collection and only found after breeding that animal. Russian Blues are fairly common, so who knows, harley's may very likely be running around in feeder bins too. There just isn't any guarantee of anything. :oops:

I do not assume rat fanciers and labs to be the only ones with certain genes. Some labs sell to the public, and also the sheer numbers of rats being used as feeders I think dwarfs any numbers of rat fanciers just in volume and production, but in general rat fanciers are not at all friendly towards feeder breeders and would rather not associate with us at all so there can't be any true certainty I think.

So that said, there's most likely a lot of neat things running around in our collections, but very few can recognize them, or breed specifically for them. :)

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Originally Posted by stangs12

But there are standard colors in there too!

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Justin, I dont know what to tell ya, maybe if you refresh my memory? Colors and patterns are inherited separately, so what do you mean exactly? ;)

The original Harley rat was found in a feeder tank in a pet store and was a siamese(or himalayan.. hard to tell).

There is a true hairless, which has NO hair whatsoever. They have alot of health problems and are generally only in labs. Then you have the fuzzy hairless, they all have short curly/kinky whiskers. Some have slight fuzzy hair, some are very hairless. It varies. Then you have the double rex/morphing hairless which generally don't have the reproduction problems that hairless and true hairless have.

DO NOT breed true hairless or hairless rats. They do not produce well, if at all, and will likely end up in miscarriage, hemorrhaging, don't lactate, or just don't know how to be a mother.

Sorry connie I meant standard fur... It was my male beige hooded Rex to his black berk Rex daughter.... No super rexes no beiges just a bunch of Rex black hoodeds and berk andnormal black berk and hoodeds!?

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

The original Harley rat was found in a feeder tank in a pet store and was a siamese(or himalayan.. hard to tell).

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Awesome stuff Becky! Lord knows where I picked up the Russian Blue story, must be for some other trait. :D *thinking thinking*

All I know is I would love to have a harley rat!

Justin, I remember your rats story and the only thing I can figure is she wasn't bred by her father, or her father isnt a true beige, or he could possibly not be her true father. Who knows!

Breed them again and see what you get! :gj:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Awesome stuff Becky! Lord knows where I picked up the Russian Blue story, must be for some other trait. :D *thinking thinking*

All I know is I would love to have a harley rat!

Justin, I remember your rats story and the only thing I can figure is she wasn't bred by her father, or her father isnt a true beige, or he could possibly not be her true father. Who knows!

Breed them again and see what you get! :gj:

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I only have one male. He must not be a true beige then... I need to get better pics!

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

The original Harley rat was found in a feeder tank in a pet store and was a siamese(or himalayan.. hard to tell).

There is a true hairless, which has NO hair whatsoever. They have alot of health problems and are generally only in labs. Then you have the fuzzy hairless, they all have short curly/kinky whiskers. Some have slight fuzzy hair, some are very hairless. It varies. Then you have the double rex/morphing hairless which generally don't have the reproduction problems that hairless and true hairless have.

DO NOT breed true hairless or hairless rats. They do not produce well, if at all, and will likely end up in miscarriage, hemorrhaging, don't lactate, or just don't know how to be a mother.

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If you breed a "true hairless" (the common hairless rat, not double rex) male to a true hairless carrier female, there aren't any of the same issues as breeding a true hairless female. Some people do still breed the hairless girls, but from what I've noticed, they always have smaller litters if they're successful at raising any babies (maybe half of them died and the breeders are just leaving that part out?). You would get just as many hairless if breeding a hairless to a female hairless carrier, but without any of the risks of loosing the litter.

"All I know is I would love to have a harley rat!"

At one point in time, I had three black self velveteen girls who carried harley and the siamese gene. Unfortunately, I never did get to breed these girls, and the breeder I got them from has "disappeared".
http://www.skyclyde.com/Harley.html
I doubt it will happen, but, I'd love to have some of their rats flown in. I wouldn't mind getting the harley gene, black eye siamese, burmese, dwarves, down unders, etc. But, I think my husband would kill me.

Edit: Well, forget that, apparantly they stopped shipping and slowed on breeding and such. :/ Shame.


Stangs, when you breed two rexes together, you should get about 25% standard fur, 50% rex and 25% double rex (hairless/patchwork). You missed out on the double rexes (nature never follows the rules to a T), but if you breed again, you should get some doubles in there as well.

Well, I did find a breeder with dumbos, hairless and rex, so, within the next month or two, I'll be picking up some smexy breeders. :)

Hilloah hasn't disappeared. If you had some of her rats, I hope you had her permission to breed them... She takes great pride in her rats.

No, I honestly can't remember the person's name, however, I don't think that was who it was. The breeder was from Pennsylvania. And yes, I did have permission from the breeder to breed the trio. When filling out an application, I'm honest, if they feel they cannot sell to me for whatever reason, I respect that, though it hasn't happened yet.