spiderball genetics ?

well I was at the reptile show I over heard a conversation about spider ball genetics by some breeder dont remember who but wondering if this is at all true he said that every single spider ball came from one male that was wild caught in Africa. He actually used that as an excuse to say that all of them are related so they either have or do not have head wobbles just by luck not be the way they are breed ie they all started from the same single male I just cant see this to be true . I know heed wobbles are helped by better breeding of spiders that dont have it but sis they really all come from one wild caught male thanks for all info

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Originally Posted by sjsexotics

well I was at the reptile show I over heard a conversation about spider ball genetics by some breeder dont remember who but wondering if this is at all true he said that every single spider ball came from one male that was wild caught in Africa. He actually used that as an excuse to say that all of them are related so they either have or do not have head wobbles just by luck not be the way they are breed ie they all started from the same single male I just cant see this to be true . I know heed wobbles are helped by better breeding of spiders that dont have it but sis they really all come from one wild caught male thanks for all info

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I don't know, but I doubt it.
Since there are no actual 'lines' present in the spider morph I really am unsure if it's from a single snake.

However, I doubt it because the trait is dominant, and doesn't slow down their camouflage. The trait seems that it would blend a lot better than albino in the wild would.
And the dominant trait makes me believe that there are more than that one line out there, if they're being used or not, I don't know.

Just my 2c.

I believe every spider has the "Wobble" just depends on whether or not people can detect/notice it or not. Still a good bp!

There are so many false rumors about spiders. just ask the right questions and pick a good one. I think they are a great morph which makes incredible combos:gj:

The story I heard was that the original spider was imported by CalZoo and sold by Super Pets to Kevin of NERD in 1989. I've not heard of another one being imported since. However, after being unveiled as genetic in 1999 decedents of that original spider have been outbred for many generations. Being a dominant type mutation and with male spiders having a reputation of growing fast and breeding early it's not out of the question that there could be some close to 9th generation spiders out there (maybe more realistic at least 5th). After that much outbreeding the fact that spinning is still around tends to indicate that it's just a side effect of the actual spider mutation and not a separate gene that can be outbred. Because spider numbers can be increased quickly by breeding young spider males to multiple normal females as the morph expands from collection to collection the average spider today might be more outbred than the average wild caught ball python.

It is true that all spider balls came from one wild caught specimen. Although, spiders are one of the most out-crossed morph, because they are dominant, they do not have a super form. There is no reason to breed two spiders together.

None of my spiders have the "head wobble." So it is not true that all spiders do.

Hope this helps.

On Graziani's website it says "This mutation was produced and proven dominant in 1999"

Now it doesnt exactly say if it was produced in the wild, or in someone's collection, but that sorta makes it sound like it wasnt wild caught. I dunno tho. Either way i think its true that they all came from one.

I'm pretty sure Randy is right. As far as most people, or everyone knows, there is only one spider line from one w.c. male. I personally think that the head wobble trait is related to the spider gene, but I know of one big breeder who thinks it can be bred out with several more generations of selective outbreeding. He claims to have a bunch that don't show signs of the wobble, but at this point would not guarantee that any of the ones he sells won't develop some form of the trait.

I'm with Randy on this one. I think ALL spiders have a variation of the "wobble", but some are to a much lesser degree. My adult male doesn't show any signs, with the exception of feeding time.....even then it's just more of a head shake from excitement rather than a wobble.

On a side note, I think the Spider morph is by far the most hardy ball morph there is. I've never seen another morph feed or grow as strongly as the spiders. But that is my opinion. I'm not a huge fan of the morph on it's own, but it does make some cool combos.

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

It is true that all spider balls came from one wild caught specimen. Although, spiders are one of the most out-crossed morph, because they are dominant, they do not have a super form. There is no reason to breed two spiders together.

None of my spiders have the "head wobble." So it is not true that all spiders do.

Hope this helps.

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Actually I think Brian @ BHB is trying to see if there really is a "Super" Spider and by that I mean a spider that if bred to a normal will produce 100% spiders, like a Super Cinny makes all Cinny's when bred to a normal last I heard he was testing that out this year.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

Actually I think Brian @ BHB is trying to see if there really is a "Super" Spider and by that I mean a spider that if bred to a normal will produce 100% spiders, like a Super Cinny makes all Cinny's when bred to a normal last I heard he was testing that out this year.

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I don't know about spider, but he believes he may have a super Pinstripe, because he has a male that has produced all pin's so far. He'd need another season or two to prove it out.

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Now it doesnt exactly say if it was produced in the wild, or in someone's collection, but that sorta makes it sound like it wasnt wild caught. I dunno tho. Either way i think its true that they all came from one.

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That means that Kevin bred his spider to a normal and produced an animal that looked like his original spider. There are several examples (The Sunset for one) that have not proven to be re-produceable and are not considered "produced". What does Graziani's site say about the "production" of other morphs for example?

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Originally Posted by evil mechanic

On Graziani's website it says "This mutation was produced and proven dominant in 1999"

Now it doesnt exactly say if it was produced in the wild, or in someone's collection, but that sorta makes it sound like it wasnt wild caught. I dunno tho. Either way i think its true that they all came from one.

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I think your rather reading wrong.

"The mutation was produced (it was replicated) and proven dominant in 1999." when it was replicated it was proven dominant at the same time that they produced more of them in captivity from the wild caught animal.


The first spider was a wild caught. Kevin discussed it on Reptile Radio with Larry and BT.


I also agree with Randy, spiders are one of the most outbred animals out there, to think that inbreeding caused the spinning is a ridiculous notion to me.

Well, the first off spring from the spiders were spinning or wobbling, so I know its not from inbreeding. I like how people say that they believe all spiders spin or wobble, even if you cannot detect it. Do you have many spiders to prove that point? My last spider did not wobble or spin, at eating or any other time. Her tank was right next to my bed so I was able to watch her constantly. She NEVER spinned or wobbled. I have also seen many others that have not. Not during feeding or at night, while drinking or in spite. hfpt( Its getting late...)

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

Well, the first off spring from the spiders were spinning or wobbling, so I know its not from inbreeding. I like how people say that they believe all spiders spin or wobble, even if you cannot detect it. Do you have many spiders to prove that point? My last spider did not wobble or spin, at eating or any other time. Her tank was right next to my bed so I was able to watch her constantly. She NEVER spinned or wobbled. I have also seen many others that have not. Not during feeding or at night, while drinking or in spite. hfpt( Its getting late...)

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Have you read this, Matt?

http://forum.8ballpythons.com/blog/?p=5