breeding project

Hey guys sorry for bugging so much i know this is like my 10th post about questions. Sorry for being annoying, but any input would be great :) Ok so heres the deal. I have a 2' 8" male normal, and a 3' female also normal. I was told that these snakes came from a breeder, that they are het for something. The guy at the shop said they are possible het for something but hes not sure from looking at them which one was which. He believes that the breeder told him that the male was a holdback from a pied mix, and the female was also from a pair that was a pied cross. still with me? i'm not sure if i'm explainign this well. So anyways my question is what will happen when breeding these two? what are the chances that ill get any morph in this clutch? Let me know if you need any information. Ill do what i can. Thanks for your patience :)

Heres the male:

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i2...w/CIMG3203.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i2...w/CIMG3207.jpg

Heres the female:

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i2...w/CIMG3239.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i2...w/CIMG3220.jpg
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i2...w/CIMG3240.jpg

Well, first, people usually go by weight and age before breeding females.

Having a girl over 1500 grams and preferrably in her second winter is a good base to start with. Males are good to go at 600.

If they are truly het pieds (which at this point, just consider them possible hets), then you have a 1/4 chance for EACH egg to hit that pied.

Anything is possible when it comes to pet store normals where a big breeder is dumping possible hets. I would breed them together and see what happens. Chances are good you will just get normals but its like a lotto..

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Originally Posted by Somed00d

Anything is possible when it comes to pet store normals where a big breeder is dumping possible hets. I would breed them together and see what happens. Chances are good you will just get normals but its like a lotto..

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And if you get all normals, you can breed the dad back to his daughters in a couple of years, and breed one of the sons back to the mom. That way if only one of the parents happens to be a het for something, you could still get lucky and find out what they actually are.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

And if you get all normals, you can breed the dad back to his daughters in a couple of years, and breed one of the sons back to the mom. That way if only one of the parents happens to be a het for something, you could still get lucky and find out what they actually are.

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The problem with this shop is that the breeder told the guy exactly what hets the snakes would be and all the details, he was even originally going charge more for some than others cause some had really good percentages (is that it?) and really good hets, but in the end they all got mixed up and he wasnt sure anymore who has what het and what possibility. :) We'll see. Im still waiting for my scale so i can start weighing. :)

Not to be a wet blanket but it sounds like this guy is blowing smoke. Unless you really trust him consider those snakes normals and just use them to get a feel for breeding.

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Originally Posted by ScottyDsntKnow

Not to be a wet blanket but it sounds like this guy is blowing smoke. Unless you really trust him consider those snakes normals and just use them to get a feel for breeding.

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lol i trust him becuase he was really upset that he couldnt remember which one was which het becuase he has to charge them all the same price now, when he was originally going to price the good ones higher.

Another question: Do normals usually have such a white belly like that in the female? She has absolutly no color in her belly, its all white like that in the picture.

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Originally Posted by calypso616

The problem with this shop is that the breeder told the guy exactly what hets the snakes would be and all the details, he was even originally going charge more for some than others cause some had really good percentages (is that it?) and really good hets, but in the end they all got mixed up and he wasnt sure anymore who has what het and what possibility. :) We'll see. Im still waiting for my scale so i can start weighing. :)

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Doing what I said will prove out whatever genes are there, if there are any to begin with. Assuming that there is actually some unknown heterozygous mutation laying dormant in one or both of your snakes, this will let you know what is there. Say the mom was a 50% het albino and the dad was a het orange ghost, or whatever. Say the mom was in the lucky half of her siblings and is actually het for albino. You breed them together and get all normal looking offspring. That doesn't prove yet that both parents are normal.

Now you raise up the babies, which in this hypothetical case would all be 50% het for albino and 50% het for ghost. You raise up the males and breed a nice one to mom. He has a 50% chance of being het for the same mutation that mom is het for, so if there was anything there, you'd have a 50% shot at hitting an albino (50% chance of getting 1/4 odds per egg). If nothing, maybe he didn't get it, so you could pair mom with a different son in another year and try again.

When the first generation of females is old enough, you breed the original dad to all of the daughters, which all have a 50% chance of being het for orange ghost. If you had 3 females to breed to him you're likely to have at least one that is also a het, so you would very likely get homozygous ghosts from at least one of those pairings. This is how you would determine if either of your snakes is actually het for something, but it's a lot of time and a lot of work when it's very likely that someone was just trying to make a sale for some normals.

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Originally Posted by ScottyDsntKnow

Not to be a wet blanket but it sounds like this guy is blowing smoke. Unless you really trust him consider those snakes normals and just use them to get a feel for breeding.

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Yes sounds like a little smoke blowing.

And in the amount of time(years) you'd take proving it out why not just get some 100% hets from a reputable breeder and have a good shot at homozygous snakes on the first try?

You get what you pay for and again, I'd just consider what you have normals. If, down the line, a random mutation pops up somewhere then more power to you but don't waste time trying for something that likely isn't there(IMO).

Have you ever done business with this guy before? Do you know anyone else who has? Have you fed these snakes yet or seen them shed etc...? I personally would not have bought what you did and kept saving for some with proven genetics.

The reason i dont just try with actual morphs first is cuase i want to get a feel for breeding first. And its quite a long wait to grow out baby morphs i would get. I rather try these out to see as im growing out morphs. :) Thanks alot everyone for all your help, again :D