My mouse colony... the next chapter

Now that I seem to be past the sneezy mice issue, I thought I'd start a new thread. Here's the link to that thread in case anyone wants it:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=73792

The good news is that several of my females appear to be pregnant. The store I bought them at keeps all of their feeder mice in one bin, so I knew they might be pregnant when I got them. I just picked out the 4 biggest females to put in with the male, but I think it is possible all 4 of those are pregnant. One is starting to look like she swallowed a golf ball, so she'll probably pop soon. I think I'm going to try to remove the male before she delivers, and put him in with the next group, in case he would have any notions about those babies not being his and therefore needing to eat them.

The bins I bought measure about 11"x16" on the bottom. I had thought, by eyeballing them at the store, that they were about as big as a 10 gallon tank, but they are definitely smaller. About what size breeder group can I keep in those bins? The 1.4 group that I just put together looks ok, but I think by the time there is a litter or 2, especially in the hopper stage, it will be too crowded.

I am feeding them hog feed (this is probably more than 50% of their intake) plus a mix of black oil sunflower seeds, wild bird seed mix, lentils, split peas, dog food, and assorted table scraps. Is that a reasonable diet or am I missing something?

If they are not eating each other or their offspring and aren't wasting the food, then I'd say it's a good mixture. I give mine the same diet(minus lentils/dried peas and dog food) and they do great. Hog feed went up $4 though!

Nobody has a comment on what size group would be appropriate in those bins?

Somebody must know what size of breeding colony will be good in an 16"x11" bin. :)

I picked up a few more males from a different pet store, to make up for the lost ones. I will have to post pics soon, because they are super cute. I decided to throw quarantine out the window, after about half a day of observing them closely, because my other choice was to leave the new males together, and I didn't want to lose another male to fighting. Besides, if anything, I think the ones I had originally that had been sick might be more of a danger to the new ones than vice versa. So it was sort of a calculated risk. That was several days ago, and so far it seems ok. Not something I would ever do once my colony gets established.

They don't waste much of the food, although the hog food does sort of crumble and leave a lot of crumbs behind. I am pretty sure if I could somehow measure the weight of the hog food that actually gets into their tummies, I'd still be paying less per pound of that than if I'd bought rodent food. It still remains to be seen if they eat their babies.

The biggest female had delivered when we checked on them Sunday morning. One was dead (stillborn?) and the others were in 2 piles. Sunday evening, I saw that the pinks were scattered and not kept together in a nest. I got the impression the mother was not taking care of them. Monday afternoon, I removed 10 dead pinks. :tears: I'm not sure if the problem was the mother neglecting them, or if she neglected them because they weren't right when they were born. They did seem small to me, even for mouse pinks, but maybe the ones I've bought for the corns were all more than 1-2 days old. I'm wondering if perhaps 10 babies were too much for a probably too young mother (remember I think they were preggo when I got them at the pet store), and the babies were delivered preemie. The pinks were NOT eaten though. A couple had been nibbled on slightly, but most were fully intact, so I guess that is a good sign. I guess I'll just have to see how she handles motherhood next time around.

The next female (who wasn't nearly as preggo looking) had delivered when I checked Monday afternoon. Her babies are piled together in a nest and she was sitting on top of them. I only took a quick peek, so I'm not sure how many she had, but they looked healthy from what I could see. I hope this litter gets to grow up! :please:

I have tubs that size and keep varying amounts of mice in them. One tub has 2.6 I think, one has 2.7 or .8(bigger tub).

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

I have tubs that size and keep varying amounts of mice in them. One tub has 2.6 I think, one has 2.7 or .8(bigger tub).

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That's a 2.6 breeding group with babies growing up in the tub? Or do you separate the mothers before they deliver?

No, mice stay together always.

Now if you used those cement mixing tubs, you could fit alot more mice in them :)

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

If they are not eating each other or their offspring and aren't wasting the food, then I'd say it's a good mixture. I give mine the same diet(minus lentils/dried peas and dog food) and they do great. Hog feed went up $4 though!

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Its crazy!! Wellness dog food just rose from 46 a bag to 58 a bag!:O

Yep! But the hog feed I don't understand.. I didn't want free weevils with it! LoL(yes I took it back, ick, ick)

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

No, mice stay together always.

Now if you used those cement mixing tubs, you could fit alot more mice in them :)

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OK, I plan on keeping my mice together, but I know some people separate so I wanted to be sure.

Free weevils...ick.

Thanks again Becky!

I still have at least 1 live pinkie this morning. The mom and another female were on top of the nest, so I couldn't see much, but one was sticking out the side a little bit. At least it seems this litter is being properly taken care of.

*sigh* No more live pinkies. And this time the only bodies I found were halfway eaten, so I believe they were killed by cannibalism. :mad:

I think only those 2 were pregnant from the pet store, so if male mice really can tell if the babies are theirs or not, I should be past that particular hurdle.

I want to add some more females now that I know they won't be too crowded. I have them divided up as 1.2s right now. First find good source, then QT/grow up the new girls... then what? It seems like adding 2 new females to an established group is asking for trouble. Would I be better off shuffling everybody around so nobody feels established and territorial? Or is breaking up established groups just a bad idea? I know the best answer would be to just wait and grow up some babies when I get them, but I'm trying to get the colony producing enough that I won't need to buy more than what I already have in the freezer.

How come kids accidentally breed their pet mice all the time, but it is so hard for people trying to do it? LOL!

I'm not sure how many people are reading this, but I'm enjoying sort of making a journal of my attempts to get a mouse colony going, so I'll keep posting.

I haven't had another litter born yet, but I have another obviously pregnant female who should deliver any day, plus 4 more I think are pregnant but not quite far enough along to be sure. Hopefully at least one of these litters will be more successful than the first 2.

The female who delivered the first litter was found dead a couple days ago. I had not seen anything wrong with her other than her looking a little thin since the litter was born. So who knows what was wrong with her, but it probably explains why she did not seem to make any effort to care for her litter.

I also have a few more I have decided to eliminate from the colony. One has a gimpy leg. It is very slight but the other mice seem to pick on her (which is what made me notice it). Another one keeps having mini-flare-ups of the myco. She'll go days appearing to be fine, then be all sneezy/wheezy again. I also think I'll have to eliminate the mother of the 2nd litter. She has taken to always going in circles to her left. Probably the myco got into her ear, I guess, although she does not have the tilted head I've heard about. She seems to manage ok, but I think if I don't eliminate her now, she'll probably have a long slow decline, because I have observed a few things like she seems to be heading towards the water, but misses, and has to make a complete circle to get back to it because she seems incapable of turning to her right. Poor thing.

Some positive news: one of the breeders we got some snakes from gave us a few of his mice. He didn't have many to spare but it probably represents a big boost in the quality of the genetics in my mouse colony.

Even with these news ones, I'm still running really short on females so I'm working on finding some more good ones.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Yep! But the hog feed I don't understand.. I didn't want free weevils with it! LoL(yes I took it back, ick, ick)

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No feed anywhere should have weasles in it.:colbert: We have had no issues with weasles but the losers down the street do!:D What pig feed are you feeding becky? Oh, btw we call weevils weasles.:rofl:

Hi,

Ok I'll bite - what do you call weasles?

http://dnr.state.il.us/ORC/WILDLIFE/...ast_weasel.jpg


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

what do you call weasles?

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car salesmen

Since my last post, I've had 3 more litters born. The first was in the same group as the litter that was cannibalized before, and this second litter in that group went the same way. I never caught any of the mice in the act, so I don't know who is doing it.

The second was from one of the ones I got from a BP breeder. That litter seemed to start out really well. They certainly lasted longer than any of my other litters I'd had so far. Then, when they were just under a week old, they were all dead again. It is driving me crazy losing all these baby mice! :taz: I don't know if it is related or not, but one of my other males got loose and was wandering around, so I wonder if his presence outside her enclosure freaked that mom out.

The third litter is from the male who got loose. He had only one female, so she is now all by herself. The pinks are about 3 days old and seem to be doing well. Maybe my 5th litter will actually get to grow up?

I also have one more obviously pregnant mouse. She is in with a male and one more female. The trio has been together for long enough I was beginning to wonder if the male was not getting the job done. Maybe that will work to my advantage and they'll work well together raising the babies.

The first group the has helped themselves to the babies, Feed them off and get another set. From what i have seen the will always do that.

Dont give up! it takes some time but it will come around.

Edited:
I use a rack system. the buckets are 15x20 and i have 1.5 in each. i leave the colony setup and do not remove the males.

I have been keeping up. I thought some of my females was impregnated before the male died but I guess not. Ill get 2 fresh males this weekend and 3 rats :D

I actually seriously considered using hog feed for the price savings...but then discovered that hog feed is EXTREMELY high in copper--high enough to kill other animals, such as sheep, if they eat it. I would recommend caution using hog feed for rodents...if they can handle the copper content, are we sure the snakes can?