Super Cinnamon x

ok , trying to get my head aound a a possible cross ...

Super Cinnamon x Cinnamon gets ya ( with luck ) supers and cinnies .

what would Super Cinnamon x Black Pastel get ? Or is it not done / been done ?

I was kinda assuming the Black Pastel would behave he same way as a cinnamon , now Im not so sure !!

Super Cinny x Black Pastel will produce more Supers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coldbloodaddict

Super Cinny x Black Pastel will produce more Supers.

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cool that is what I originally thought !!! supers and B pastels

thank you

Hi,

Actually wouldn't it be supers and cinamons?

All the offspring would be cinamons because of the super and each one also stands a 50% chance of being a black pastel which would make it a super.

So no black pastels could come from the clutch at all.

Better breed the lil guy to something else as well - black pastel females would let you shoot for the even darker supers in the future after all. :halohorn:


dr del

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Actually wouldn't it be supers and cinamons?

All the offspring would be cinamons because of the super and each one also stands a 50% chance of being a black pastel which would make it a super.

So no black pastels could come from the clutch at all.

Better breed the lil guy to something else as well - black pastel females would let you shoot for the even darker supers in the future after all. :halohorn:


dr del

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ach mon !! it was all going so well there pmsl. Im not getting my head round the fact no B Pastels in clutch !!

surely there would be B Pastels ? if you take say ... for example

Super Cinnamon X Cinnamon , you would get 50% Super Cinnamons, 50% Cinnamons

the only diff we would have is instead of Cinny were using a BP.

I am assuming not all the genes are gonna fall in perfect line ( achieving Supers ) some wont line up , thus the fact you would get BPs ( or cinnys , if ya were using that instead )

My original reason for asking was that we were told that S Cinny x B Pastel would NOT produce S Cinny in the clutch at all . Which I thought was wrong , it would . Soooooooooo ( lol ) in conclusion , you'e both ( post above you Derek ) saying it would only produce Supers ?

Rite , whuars ra coffee pot !!!

No Tartan, the Doc's got the right of it.

If you bred your super cinnamon to a normal, all the babies would be cinnamons. Breeding to a black pastel, they'll still all be cinnies, but the ones who get the black pastel gene as well as the cinnamon will be visual supers.

HTH!

~Bruce

Look at it this way

You breed a super cinny to a normal, you get all cinnys.

You breed a super cinny to a black pastel, any snake that was going to be a black pastel, now has a cinny making it a super. any other will only have the one cinny gene and be a cinny. So all the black pastels in the clutch would be turned into a eight ball. make sense?

Edit: WOw bruce we think alike :p you beat me to the punch!

What happens when you breed a Cinny to a Black Pastel? Do you get a 1/4 chance of a Solid black snake? And if you bred that solid black snake to a normal, would you get 1/2 Cinny and 1/2 Black Pastel?

Is it like breeding a Lesser to a Butter, where you still get a 1/4 chance of a solid white snake, but if you breed it to a normal you get Lessers and Butters?

Hi,

You got it in one Ken. :gj:

Now for the fun bit - super black pastels are supposedly a lot darker than super cinamons so is the super produced from both lines somewhere in the middle?

And how easily can you pick out the various supers if you pair two cinamon/Black pastel supers together? In theory there would be super cinnies, super black pastels and combo supers.

**edit**

Actually thinking about it I think I'm wrong about the mixture - anyone with more knowledege want to correct me on it please?

**end edit**


Would be a facinating project to play out over seven years or so I think. :)


dr del

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

You got it in one Ken. :gj:

Now for the fun bit - super black pastels are supposedly a lot darker than super cinamons so is the super produced from both lines somewhere in the middle?

And how easily can you pick out the various supers if you pair two cinamon/Black pastel supers together? In theory there would be super cinnies, super black pastels and combo supers.

**edit**

Actually thinking about it I think I'm wrong about the mixture - anyone with more knowledege want to correct me on it please?

**end edit**


Would be a facinating project to play out over seven years or so I think. :)


dr del

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It would be super easy:) If you bred a cinny/black to a cinny/black together, you would only get cinny/black supers. You could not get a mix between super cinnys and super blacks, because the super would give both genes to said snake.

Hi,

But each super gives one gene to the offspring. What makes you say one couldnt give cinny and the other also give a cinny?

It's not so much a homozygous animal as a double co-dom isn't it?


dr del

good to see a lot ppl having the same thought processes as I had ,lol

aint genes fantastic ! thank you Mr Mendal .

thank peeps for all the imput , the fact that it WOULD produce Supers ( SC x BP ) was the main thing I wanted to confirm .

want another headache ppl ? Sc , Cinnamon = Super Cinny

Black Pastel is a morph in its own right yeah , as is Cinnamon ( you know whats coming ? )

SC xBP = Supers and Cinnamons ....so where did the Black Pastel gene go ? !!!!! Did it become a cinny somewhere in the mix?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

But each super gives one gene to the offspring. What makes you say one couldnt give cinny and the other also give a cinny?

It's not so much a homozygous animal as a double co-dom isn't it?


dr del

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Because if theres two supers, and if even only one has black pastel in it along with the cinny, it will pass on the black pastel to the super.

Great Derek youve got me confused:rolleye2:

Bleh. breed c/b to c/b the supers of the offspring HAVE to be c/b!!

If it has the chance to pass on both of its genes, it has to. Meaning the supers will have to be both.

Get me? Whats your phone number I cant explain this in typing:taz:

RT, if there are supers and cinnys, it it means all the black pastels are in the supers.

+


You breed a cinny to a normal....


You get 50% cinnys, 50% normals

lets say its a clutch of 5, you get three cinnys and two normals.

Now lets say the parents were a super cinny to a black pastel, we all know the normals are now cinnys, and the Black pastels which there were also three, turn into three super cinnys/blacks.

NOW... Lets say the parents were a super c/b to a black pastel. The normals are one black pastel and a cinny, the three cinnys of the clutch just got the cinny gene, and because there is not and black pastel, the black pastel turns it into a super b/c!!


With the normals you cant mix a cinny and a black pastel without making a cinny, so they were turned into one of the two.


Breed a super c/b to a super c/b and like the above, you can mix the two without getting a eight ball, but they have to mix in the supers causing every super to be a super c/b
Get me?






(note, pretend here, youd have pretty great odds if all this happened! But it is what would happen.)

Hi,

No because they aren't really Super Cinnies.

They are a double combo of similar genes that merely result in a similar looking animal.

If they truly were SC's then breeding to a normal would only result in cinnamons not cinnamons and black pastels. :)


And now for Bd, :)

No each animal passes one fo the pair but it can pass either - if it is a pure SC then it can only give cinnys and a pure SBP can only give black pastels but a mix super isn't really a super in the same way and could pass on either.


dr del

Take it like this, if you breed a caramel glow to a caramel glow, your not going to get a few caramels, a few ghosts, and a few cgs. you will get all Caramel glows.

Hi,

Yes but caramel glows are double homozygous recessives not co-dom.

They have both genes the same in both snakes so cannot give any different versions. In the cinamon black pastel there are two versions of the gene each of which can be passed to the offspring.

I need a spell checker for this stuff. :(


dr del

Im tell'in ya Derek that if you breed Super black/cinny to super black/cinny all the snakes would be super cinnys/blacks!!:rolleye2:

Hi,

And I'm saying you wont. :P


dr del

My understanding is in agreement with ya Derek ( Scots wahay !!! lol ) For it to be all SC/Bs then every gene would have to fall in the exact same locus all the time , extremely unlikely , so be ( if lucky ) a combo of SC/Bs AND c/bs

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

Im tell'in ya Derek that if you breed Super black/cinny to super black/cinny all the snakes would be super cinnys/blacks!!:rolleye2:

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No, they won't.

Bleh it hasnt even been done so who cares for now:rolleye2::taz::sabduel::zerb::fishslap::tombstone

I think you would get all snakes, i worked hard on this and thats what I came up with.

The book will be out soon;)

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

I think you would get all snakes, i worked hard on this and thats what I came up with.

The book will be out soon;)

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lol, good one.. i got a head ache just reading their posts go back and fort.. but i agree with your theory.. 100% correct! :gj: