Should I start?

I have 2 small carpets about 20" long. I bought them from the Raleigh expo and the breeder was feeding live pinkies, so he said. Should I try to breed my own or start buying froozen and see if they will eat them. Will breeding save me the hassle and money?

I already breed and sell roaches so another species of breeding wont be troublesome for me.

Chris

Breeding can save you more money than buying live, but not necessarily from buying frozen, unless you have a lot of varied sized snakes.. which you do not.

I like the convenience of breeding my own, less hassle I think.. but I still need to freeze some for specific sizes and such.

Ok I think I have read ever post in the feeder section!

Tomorrow I am going to design a rack system to fit into my room and work on a breeding sheet. I will probably get a few more snakes in the future (2 or 3 more) so I think I will start with 8 females and 2 males and randomly breed them and store the extra for when I get the other snakes.

Where/Who is the best person to buy live rats from?

Have you considered mice or ASF? I say this because breeding rats is often more expensive if you were to just buy frozen online, and they grow very quickly, being too large to feed in only a week or two.

If you were to freeze all your prey and feed frozen thawed, you could get away with 2 females and 2 male rats instead of 8. Breed both females at the same time, then you have two litters you can gas and freeze at various stages for your snakes.

Less mouths to feed and less stink. :)
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69076

Thats what I was thinking, But I was thinking 3.2 So that I can rotate the females around. Both eat f/t pinky mice right now but I want to change over to rats asap. As far as the cost of breeding my own I am fine with that, I know that my snakes will get a better quality feeder.

Instead of doing a complete rack system, I have a metel shelf that has nothing on it right now, so I will go buy some tubs and screen in the tops. With the 3.2 how many tubs do you think I will need at what size? 6?

1: Male Breeders
2: Female Breeders (RR)
3: Mating
4: Nursery
5: Extra Females
6: Extra Males

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clear

Thats what I was thinking, But I was thinking 3.2 So that I can rotate the females around. Both eat f/t pinky mice right now but I want to change over to rats asap. As far as the cost of breeding my own I am fine with that, I know that my snakes will get a better quality feeder.

Instead of doing a complete rack system, I have a metel shelf that has nothing on it right now, so I will go buy some tubs and screen in the tops. With the 3.2 how many tubs do you think I will need at what size? 6?

1: Male Breeders
2: Female Breeders (RR)
3: Mating
4: Nursery
5: Extra Females
6: Extra Males

---

How often are you going to be breeding here?

Putting two females in at one time will give you any where from 18-32 rats in one go. Your feeding pinks right? That's 9 to 16 weeks of food right there for your 2 snakes, or you could plan ahead, freeze say 5 weeks worth of pinks, and then a week later freeze the rest at the chubb size.

Your not going to need to breed them a lot for only 2 snakes.

Even if you do plan on getting a few more snakes, then you will be increasing your production margin by just putting those two females back in with males more often.

If you really want to just jump right in with a bunch of rats, that's fine I guess, I just don't see the need for it with only 2 snakes taking mice pinks. :confused:


Females don't need to be rotated like you want to do. You can successfully breed those same rats for over a year. Then, when you feel you need replacements, you hold back 2 new females.

I guess I'm just trying to save you some time and money here. Raising rats for 2 snakes shouldnt be so intense like your talking about. ;)

BTW, I usually say 2.2, because no rat is ever alone by themselves, which is just cruel to do to them. They need to have a partner at all times, being the highly social animal they are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clear

how many tubs do you think I will need at what size? 6?

1: Male Breeders
2: Female Breeders (RR)
3: Mating
4: Nursery
5: Extra Females
6: Extra Males

---

Like I said before, if your feeding FT, the best way to get your rats all set is to put the females together in with a male at the same time.

You can decide to do a 1.2, while your other 2 males are just hanging out. Your in a sense waisting space just to hold these 2 other males. (That's why I say 2 males and 2 females)

Then, once the females are pregnant (approx 3 weeks with the males), pull them out and put them into their own tubs. Wild rats prefer to nest alone, and it is documented that there is a higher survival rate when nursing alone.

Some people swear on communal nesting, but I don't see the need to add the stress of having another female around because of all the ways it can go wrong.

Once the females have their litters, freeze the pinks. Voila, snake food.

Now the females can go back into one tub to hang out until you need more snake food.

During breeding:
1 tub for the 2 males just hanging out
1 tub for the 1 male and 2 females

Once pregnant:
1 tub for males, 2 tubs for the nursing females

After they have the litter:
1 tub for females, 1 tub for males.

so after you remove the babies from the moms you can put all the males together?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clear

So after you remove the babies from the moms you can put all the males together?

---

No, that's not what I wrote.

You dont want the females and males together when she has her litter.

Females are with males for 3 weeks.

After 3 weeks with the males, the females are taken away from males.

Females are put into their own tub for each girl. (1 tub per female)

while the females are with their litter, all the males will be together

after the females have their litters, the females can go back together.

I keep 1 male 2 female, the females can be housed together with the babies, they will help each other, this is great, as one of mine consistently has 17-20, and one has about 10, so it helps out the one with all the pups

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lunajl97

I keep 1 male 2 female, the females can be housed together with the babies, they will help each other, this is great, as one of mine consistently has 17-20, and one has about 10, so it helps out the one with all the pups

---

So is the male alone during the time you have two females together?

Rats need to have partners at all times. They just don't do well by themselves and can become depressed and sick.

If someone is just starting out breeding, it's a good idea to keep them by themselves to nurse to ensure that there is no tug of war between mothers, both are doing their fare share, and if one decides to eat the litter, your not losing all of them. At least until the rats are 2 weeks of age, before then they are very young and fragile and wont live with those kinds of stresses.

I either wrote it wrong or you read it wrong, sorry. I mean after i seperate the females and male babies, then i can put the smaller males in with the larger males and not have a problem or will i need to let them get larger first?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

No, that's not what I wrote.

You dont want the females and males together when she has her litter.

Females are with males for 3 weeks.

After 3 weeks with the males, the females are taken away from males.

Females are put into their own tub for each girl. (1 tub per female)

while the females are with their litter, all the males will be together

after the females have their litters, the females can go back together.

---

Yes, you can definitely put them together! :) The only thing to keep in mind is to make sure they have enough room to live in comfortably.

I found some tubs at walmart that are around 24"long 16"wide and about 8.5" tall. Should they work?

Shorter than most people keep them, it will allow them easy access to the lid and lip of the tub. Better to go taller, like 10-15" tall.

I use the 66 qt tubs, and the 54 qt's for my rats.

Ok, So my last questions is, where is a good place to get some from with different blood lines if possible?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clear

Ok, So my last questions is, where is a good place to get some from with different blood lines if possible?

---

I'd check first to see if anyone with an already established colony will sell to you. Generally they are well selected and producing colony, it would give you a great base to start with.

Second, Petco and Petsmart.

Third, small pet stores. But be careful, as always, check the health of each and every animal. If you dont feel comfortable buying there, then dont.

Make sure each animal has clear fur, clean eyes and ears and noses. They dont sneeze, wheeze, cough.

No red staining around the eyes and nose. They have good posture and are excited. Not lethargic, bent over or shy.

Check the fur for fleas, mites, chiggers, lice. (you should treat them all anyways)

Make sure you properly sex them as well!!

Stay away from rats with white head spots, white noses (called a blaze), lighting stripes on their faces, odd eyes, or have high white sides. (Not hooded, hooded are ok)

Great thanks!

A little update, I now have 6:1 ratio of mice. The closest pet shop near me was 35mins away and it was petco. I have 3 browns, 2 blacks and one silver/gray females and one albino male. The male has a bachelor pad for himself but will shortly be introduced to the females that are in a large tub with the sides cut out with 1/4 mesh (Both long sides). They love to climb the sides so I placed my air purifier ontop so no chance of escapees! (The air purifier seems to work great but I will soon be making a carbon filter for it also)

How do you know when they females are ready to mate, they all look like adults? Also can I keep all 6 in the same tub or should i split them up 3/3? The tubs are 24"wide, 15" deep and 12" tall. The males is 12" wide, 11" deep and 12" tall.

My only problem is the water bottles are leaking, I tried to place stuff behind the ball to make it a little tighter and see if that will stop the leaking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clear

A little update, I now have 6:1 ratio of mice. The closest pet shop near me was 35mins away and it was petco. I have 3 browns, 2 blacks and one silver/gray females and one albino male. The male has a bachelor pad for himself but will shortly be introduced to the females that are in a large tub with the sides cut out with 1/4 mesh (Both long sides). They love to climb the sides so I placed my air purifier ontop so no chance of escapees! (The air purifier seems to work great but I will soon be making a carbon filter for it also)

How do you know when they females are ready to mate, they all look like adults? Also can I keep all 6 in the same tub or should i split them up 3/3? The tubs are 24"wide, 15" deep and 12" tall. The males is 12" wide, 11" deep and 12" tall.

My only problem is the water bottles are leaking, I tried to place stuff behind the ball to make it a little tighter and see if that will stop the leaking.

---

If your going with mice, mice can be kept together at all times.


Water bottles take some practice. Don't go sticking things in th nozzle, you may just end up clogging it or grow something in there. :P

You fill the bottle up to the tippy top, put the cap on very tightly, flip it upright, then push the ball in until you have even suction from the inside of the bottle and it stops leaking when you aren't pushing in the ball.

I use lixit bottles and super pet flat back bottles. I like the flat backs better.

so 7 mice in that large container is fine?

I don't do mice, sorry. Someone else with chime in eventually.

Thats fine, I looks like plenty of room, they have 3 "hides" a deep food bowl and a huge water bottle (i stoped it from leaking!) If they are not climbing the wire they are all laying in one hide together!