family owned pet store vs petco

hi all! i just wanted to share a few experiences i have had the past week.while buying feeder mice from a small family owned pet store i noticed some terrible things.

1.they had a baby ball python for sale with a severely kinked neck.it was very sad to look at.it could only make left hand turns.also it was so small,id say 35 grams tops!i get along really well with the lady who works there and i told her about the snake,she said heres the keys,go get it.so i did.she put it to the side and said thanx.

problem solved right?wrong!

i went back today to buy some clamps and asked her about the kinked ball.her face got really red and she said the owner of the store said to sell it cheap.WOW!

so i went over and looked in the tank to see if it was in there and there was several balls in there and 2 paper bags stapled closed in the tank.

i asked her where is kinky,she said its not in there?i says nope.well she walks over and again her face begins to change color.she said saturday befor she left she put a hopper in a bag and the kinked snake to see if it would eat.so for days this poor kinked snake was in a paper bag with a hopper mouse.ugh!!!!

2.as i was looking around at other reptiles i notice there is a dead baby bearded dragon in a tank with a bunch of others.not only was it dead but starting to rot.it was missing pieces,and smashed into the bedding.double ugh!

3.they also had 2 adult beardies for sale.this disturbed me the most.the females intestines where coming out her rear side badly.the other dragon was perched on top of her and you could see where she was somewat hollow.you could see where the dying dragon had gone by blood stains all over the driftwood and folliage.

4.they have a few albino burmese pythons that are severely emicciated.sorry for the spelling.these snakes are in such bad shape i almost took the tank off the table and ran out the door.the skin on the sides are overhanging dramaticly.

now i have heard hella bad things on this forum about petco.im not saying that i would buy a reptile from there but i do go there to buy mice and decor for my enclosures.NEVER,EVER have i seen such horrible treatment of the animals they keep.the tanks are always clean,snakes 99% of the time appear healthy along with the other reptiles.

as for this family owned store they treat me like a relative.if i want to see something they give me the key and i go get wat i want to see.theres been times they even put me to work and i will get snakes or lizards out for other customers if they are busy.

my question

should i secretly have this place checked out?

if so how should i do it?

thanks for reading such a long post but i felt the need to vent and get insight on wat i should do.

Not all petcos or chain pet stores are bad, and not all family owned pet stores are good. you just have to shop around and find one that satisfies you. or there is always the internet.

The lack of quality stores in my area force me to buy from the internet, which is not a bad thing. I have 2 balls from a quality breeder (Alan Bosch), buy my frozen rodents from BigCheeseRodents, and my supplies from the Beanfarm.

Your observation in the torturous husbandry and keeping of their animals does not go unnoticed, these petstores need to be put on blast and you need to file a complaint with your states attorney general, actually call the media, that has been done here and they shut these places down.

I would not give them any business at all, your feeder mice might have parisites and illnesses that could affect you and your reptiles.

thanks for the quik reply. to top all this off,when animal control finds or gets a call about a reptile they take it to this place to find a better home.im baffled.i just know that if i do call and report them,they will know it was me.just about everytime i go there something is noticably wrong and i always point it out.i do not want to make enemies but at the same time someone that lets this happen is somewat of an enemy.

I think it depends on the owners and employees about how a shop goes. I've seen horrendous family owned pet stores and Petco's/PetsMart's. I've seen great looking family owned pet stores and Petco's/PetsMarts.

I agree with "Not all petcos or chain pet stores are bad, and not all family owned pet stores are good." It all depends on the employees, in my opinion. FOR INSTANCE, in my town there is a "family owned" pet store and it is hands down the worst pet establishment you could possibly imagine. It's dusty, disorganized and very cramped. I hate how people bash Petco, because in all honesty they should be bashing the people working there. Not all Petcos are the same, no matter how much you want to believe they are because they're making bank. Guess what, money makes the damn world go 'round. Snake breeders breed different snakes to get the most exotic animal to sell for a butt load of cash. This is no secret. I know for sure that the Petco I go to has VERY knowledgeable people working there- more specifically the two guys who manage the reptile section. They know their stuff, and they make sure you know your stuff before they let you take anything home. Just my :2cent:...

well, i have a family owned petstore near my place and it is 100% amazing, i buy all my supplies for my fish and snake there, except for my mice which I buy frozen from annies-rodents.com. They have amazingly friendly and knowledgable staff, and for a little while i was giving them my baby fish in exchane for free things and a lollypop :D. But I never go to petcetera, the staff are ignorant and stupid and I woundn't be suprised if they were hired on the spot. They don't have a reptile section but their fish and birds are taken care of poorly, always dead fish in the tanks, and the birds are packed in so tight there is litteraly 3 per cubic foot. There is another family owned buisness near buy, and they take vert good care of their reptiles/birds/fish. I could tell you how but I'm writing this on my wii and it is late. So that is what it is like in my area.

It's never really about chain vs private - it's about quality of care they provide.

Butters, if you are close with the owners and treated like family there then why not have a sit down and talk with them. People seem to have lost the skill of simple and direct conversations in today's world! Explain to them without being confrontational or accusatory that you are concerned about what you see, offer some of your time to help them bring their husbandry up to a reasonable level (remember it's a business so yes it's going to be different than a private person with a few pet snakes). Offer to help educate their employees or whatever you can do to help first.

If they aren't receptive, if they don't care - then maybe you need to report them but again, since you said you are close with them, why not treat them like friends and see if you can help them do better by these creatures.

In my experience most of the chain stores provide subpar care to the animals. They hire minimum wage, inexperienced employees and put them in charge of animal's lives. I've also seen plenty of privately owned pet stores with conditions just as bad or worse. There are also a ton of bad breeders out there that couldn't care less about the animals, just about making a buck. We've seen some of them on this forum in the past and some are still here today (you know who you are). Breeders who sell kinked, sick or emaciated animals are all around you. Choose wisely...

we have a local shop here that is about a 2 on a scale from 1 to 10

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Originally Posted by jglass38

In my experience most of the chain stores provide subpar care to the animals. They hire minimum wage, inexperienced employees and put them in charge of animal's lives. I've also seen plenty of privately owned pet stores with conditions just as bad or worse. There are also a ton of bad breeders out there that couldn't care less about the animals, just about making a buck. We've seen some of them on this forum in the past and some are still here today (you know who you are). Breeders who sell kinked, sick or emaciated animals are all around you. Choose wisely...

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Great post Jamie! That fact is, as you've said, there is good and there is bad out there so people need to be smart purchasers. You need to know what a healthy snake looks like, you need to educate yourself about the whole purcashing process. If you don't do those steps and you get a sick snake from a crappy supplier then you are in part responsible for that and not a "victim". There's tons of information all over the web that can help anyone considering buying a snake so do the prep work and be a smart consumer. If you don't like what you see in a store, private or chain or at a snake show or from a breeder - speak with your wallet and refuse to support their business.

The small stores around here are terrible. I can think of 3 off the top of my head that do well in fish sales, but everything else suffers terribly and should be reported. I much prefer going to petsmart and petco. At least there, corporate DOES have a hand in discipline, made all the more easier by reporting it to corporate. They do check up on those things!

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

It's never really about chain vs private - it's about quality of care they provide.

Butters, if you are close with the owners and treated like family there then why not have a sit down and talk with them. People seem to have lost the skill of simple and direct conversations in today's world! Explain to them without being confrontational or accusatory that you are concerned about what you see, offer some of your time to help them bring their husbandry up to a reasonable level (remember it's a business so yes it's going to be different than a private person with a few pet snakes). Offer to help educate their employees or whatever you can do to help first.

If they aren't receptive, if they don't care - then maybe you need to report them but again, since you said you are close with them, why not treat them like friends and see if you can help them do better by these creatures.

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:gj: Dont get authorities involved until you have tried to do somthing for them... You say they are nice people, so be a nice person and try to help them... Remember they are just trying to make a living like everyone in this world...

Also you can lead them in the right direction on where to get reptiles that are healthy with no kinks.... Ive seen baby normal bp's for sale for $20 each, even cheaper if you buy a lot of 10 or somthing

Personally I would call the authorities.

This is their BUSINESS, if they do not "know" it is because they do not care. In this day and age there is NO reason for a business owner operating in the US to remain so ignorant, there is too much information out there and if they wanted to, they WOULD know better.

You yourself have mentioned numerous incidents, yet apparently that didn't help. If this was a daycare operation treating children badly I doubt if people would say "well just give them more time and try to educate them, there is no urgency".

Besides it will probably take the authorities ages to even look into the matter. Honestly I doubt if it will make a difference, but it is important to try when sick animals are not being cared for properly.

Luckily I have a VERY nice family owned petstore 10 minutes away and a Petco and Petsmart that are both pretty good stores.

Sonya, there is a difference between ignorance and uneducated. These people running the petstore could have their animals dying and they don't know why. They have their guidelines like any petstore but may not understand the huge amount of fault in their system and just think it's unlucky. Don't be so quick to judge.

Talk with them right away, and if they do not show any incentive to change, then contact the authorities.

Blackcrystal perhaps I read the story differently. Dead animals rotting in tanks, intestines coming out back ends, and baby bp's being stapled in paper bags with baby mice for days on end.

That is not ignorance; obviously the management simply does not care. Removing the rotting corpses that are falling to pieces is about as basic as it gets.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

there is a difference between ignorance and uneducated.

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Yes there is, and these business people are both ignorant and uneducated. It is not our responsibility as the customer to teach the business person. they should have a little more respect for what they do and be able to tell the customer a thing or two. at least if not for themselves then for the animals because no living thing deserves to be put through that type of uneducated ignorance.

there is no need to speak with them. it isnt hard to tell when animals are sick and dying. they know whats going on and it seems they dont care especially if paying customers like the OP keep giving them business. i would report them asap and never go back again.

Sounds like you know them well... you should give them a talking-to. Sometimes these issues are just down to lack of knowledge... These mom-and-pop pet shops often know a good deal about fish or dogs or something and then as a side thought get a few reptiles to cater to that niche as well...

I know of one near me where only one guy in the shop knows much about the reptiles, where the owner and the rest of the employees seem pretty much clueless from what i could tell.

Still doesnt explain the dead reptiles that are left in the tank to rot for who knows how long.

Plain and simple these people dont care. How long would one have to search the internet to find this website. With the fountain of knowledge overflowing from this message board one could run a reptile empire, and I'm sure there are registered users who are experts on other animal besides reptiles here. Or would be pointed in the right direction.

If these people cared, even a little bit, they would have sought advice a long time ago.

The way I see it, you've got two realms here: The chain stores that go by mediocre but usually enforced guidelines set by a large corporate office, OR a free-for-all world where where some small pet stores take excellent care of their animals... but most others screw up horribly. I'm not sure what's worse.

Wouldn't it be nice if more people cared more than two cents worth about herps? Then maybe we wouldn't have this problem.