Vent

I am pissed. I like using forums. I like posting and reading. Latly these forums have turned into more a grouping of people who are willing to jump down someones throat at a moments notice for anything.

The appeal of even staying here and participating was that it is a group of people who enjoy the same things passing information along, and chatting. If all the members are going to do is wait for the next newbie to come in here and post something that is incorrect just to chop them down and tell them how horrible of a person they are, count me out.

I seriously think you guys all need to chill. The point of this place is not to show off how much knowledge we have by telling others they know less, but for us all to grow together, learning from each other and being their to support those that need it.

Out of curiosity, do you have any specific examples to share? I lurk around here mostly, and contribute when I feel I can add to the topic of conversation. From what I see, 99.9% of the members of this site (myself included) try to offer an educational response to questions that may be "Newb" or beginner questions. I don't see the kind of personal attacks that you are referring to. Maybe I'm just not reading the threads you're talking about... :confused:

Not sure we`ve been reading the same threads... I belong to alot of forums, and this is the ONLY one that I would be willing to send my young family members too, and is the only one that I would say is moderated to a level where I do not feel like I will ge blindsided for saying something.

Do you spend much time on other forums, or is this the only one?

Just asking as I have noticed that people can get sensitive and the joy of online is the lack of face-to-face, which leaves words and tone open to interpretation.

Not invalidating what you typed, as I am sure if you feel attacked then it is genuinely what you feel has happened.

Bruce

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Originally Posted by Inknsteel

Out of curiosity, do you have any specific examples to share? I lurk around here mostly, and contribute when I feel I can add to the topic of conversation. From what I see, 99.9% of the members of this site (myself included) try to offer an educational response to questions that may be "Newb" or beginner questions. I don't see the kind of personal attacks that you are referring to. Maybe I'm just not reading the threads you're talking about... :confused:

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I will include the thread in the last couple of days. Some of them have been deleted because it escalated so quickly. (or I would assume that is the reason)

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=73630

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=73675

Both of these threads were just someone sharing info and experiences, and people took it to an entirely different level.

Also, there was a post made yesterday about a video of a Rabbit defending it's area/babies/self from a snake, and the result was something that some considered funny, irony or whathave you, and that was taken down.

I just feel that people are a little too sensitive lately. Is it the time of year? People stressed out?

I'm not sure how those threads pertains to newbies asking for help? People have a right to voice their opinion, they are not all going to agree or be super nice...

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Originally Posted by cuda

If all the members are going to do is wait for the next newbie to come in here and post something that is incorrect just to chop them down and tell them how horrible of a person they are, count me out.

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Originally Posted by Loft Lizard

Not sure we`ve been reading the same threads... I belong to alot of forums, and this is the ONLY one that I would be willing to send my young family members too, and is the only one that I would say is moderated to a level where I do not feel like I will ge blindsided for saying something.

Do you spend much time on other forums, or is this the only one?

Just asking as I have noticed that people can get sensitive and the joy of online is the lack of face-to-face, which leaves words and tone open to interpretation.

Not invalidating what you typed, as I am sure if you feel attacked then it is genuinely what you feel has happened.

Bruce

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No, I have not been nor do I feel personally attacked, but the stupid things I have been seeing around here taken way too seriously and way out of context and the willingness to have those things used to beat the poster with ... just disturbs me.

And yes, I am VERY involved with other forums. I actually started my own gaming clan, and have moderated forums for quite some time. I know how things work, but .. I dunno .. it's just sux.

honestly... ive been here a year, posted ALOT.. I have yet to have a run in with members. I think there is a wealth of knowledge here and if your new to the hobby or dont know how to properly care for your animal and ask for help you need to expect people to tell you how it is and how to fix it. Its up to you to remain open minded and accept what people are suggesting, many of these people have been keeping snakes,herps, exc for a couple decades! even if things come across as rude many of these people are looking out for the animals well being because the people who are here have a passion for the animals in their care... take it as being rude, defensive, or otherwise.

When it comes down to it (and this will sound rude) if you dont like it there are dozens of other forums out there you can join. I would much rather be here with these wonderful knowledgable people though to be quite honest. Im not sure which thread your refering to im just saying this isnt the first time this topic has come up.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I'm not sure how those threads pertains to newbies asking for help? People have a right to voice their opinion, they are not all going to agree or be super nice...

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You name it ..

Temps
Hides
Enclosure

The point is there are a lot of people that come here thinking they have it all figured out .. and they don't, and the community collectively attacks them for thinking they do. I have seen it done, and I don't like it. If I were to have puchased my first BP with, lets say, only Petco's caresheet as a guide, and then I came here to show off my new pet and I got the reaction and treatment that some here have given .. I would not come back.

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Originally Posted by ADEE

honestly... ive been here a year, posted ALOT.. I have yet to have a run in with members. I think there is a wealth of knowledge here and if your new to the hobby or dont know how to properly care for your animal and ask for help you need to expect people to tell you how it is and how to fix it. Its up to you to remain open minded and accept what people are suggesting, many of these people have been keeping snakes,herps, exc for a couple decades! even if things come across as rude many of these people are looking out for the animals well being because the people who are here have a passion for the animals in their care... take it as being rude, defensive, or otherwise.

When it comes down to it (and this will sound rude) if you dont like it there are dozens of other forums out there you can join. I would much rather be here with these wonderful knowledgable people though to be quite honest. Im not sure which thread your refering to im just saying this isnt the first time this topic has come up.

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I understnad and appreciate that. I know what you aare saying, but lately it's like the collective reaction is

"ZOMG, SAVE THE SNAKE!" and proceed to forcefully take over the situation instead of making suggestions or being helpful. I understand the mindset, but .. come on, there has to be a better way of going about it then telling the person posting "you're doing it wrong"

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Originally Posted by cuda

You name it ..

Temps
Hides
Enclosure

The point is there are a lot of people that come here thinking they have it all figured out .. and they don't, and the community collectively attacks them for thinking they do. I have seen it done, and I don't like it. If I were to have puchased my first BP with, lets say, only Petco's caresheet as a guide, and then I came here to show off my new pet and I got the reaction and treatment that some here have given .. I would not come back.

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I suppose it's open for interpretation.

I see these people as helpful, and I can honestly say for as many threads I have read, and even less threads I have posted, there are VERY few posts attacking a person for a simple mistake.

They may question motives, they may not be all happy and kindergarten pg, but they hardly ever come right out and attack someone.


A lot of people here made mistakes when they got their snake. More than often, they are seeing a repeat of what they did, and are trying to help the new person make the best decisions.

What would you rather they say instead of "your doing it wrong"

Chances are, if it's dangerous for the snake, it's wrong.

There are suggestions being made, but for the sake of making it stick in their heads, why not just say "Do this, or that... ditch this."

i understand what your saying cuda... but at the same time, i could say "wow your a moron" and in my mind it sounds sarcastic, in yours its rude, in connies (For example, sorry connie lol) it could come across as the most inconsiderate thing said in all history. Thats the pit fall of WWW and forums... tone can not be interpreted

IMO you over exagerating i looked at both threads and saw only ONE account of a personal attack. but thats just me maybe you saw something else and found it harassing? anyway this fourm in particular may seem like its argueing some times but its just debating between each other such as the transgenic pet fourm. but don't get me wrong some times people look like this :taz:

Fine. I will crawl back into my hole and fester.

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Originally Posted by cuda

Fine. I will crawl back into my hole and fester.

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now, now, now... lets not be immature

I think the one with the "bored with batteries" the guy started out with pictures, and was gently asked about having only one hide. When he ignored the gently offered advice, some people seemed to make it clear that he needed more than one hide, whereupon he declared that he did not need more, and that he liked seeing it out roaming around.
I only see threads get what might be called rude when the people are informed of something potentially harmful, and they ignore it, especially when they ignore it for a reason like "I like to watch him" when a constantly roaming snake is normally a stressed snake.
People here are about the animals first, and people's feeling second a lot of times.
It's still one of the nicest forums I frequent.

You'll find with most all pet forums, when there are people that are 100% devoted to their animals, and dare I say...PASSIONATE about the hobby, people will get a little heated once and a while when it comes to the care and husbandry of animals.

The frustrating thing to me is when a new forum member comes posting asking for advice, and then disregards the information, or picks and chooses what they think will work best...when the fact is, they are new to it, they don't know!

Another thing, which I wish was in larger font, or on the homepage, or something...this site has a wonderful SEARCH feature. Its easy to find someone that made a post about a similar problem that you are having, and then the answers to it. Now I understand many aren't as computer or forum saavy, so a few new posts on sames topics is fine.

And many of the forum members I find to be like myself... blunt and to the point. If a question is asked, a simple answer can take care of it. Sometimes in typed word it can sound harsh...but really many more details are not necessary. We're all responding to help others make informed decisions, take the responses with a grain of salt.

Another thing is, if you want to have your posts taken more seriously, put some time into a well thought out post. Make sure you use punctuation and correct grammar, it helps everyone out to answer the question if we can understand what the person is asking.

Not everything is always rainbows and butterflies, we're human beings, sometimes we have bad days, and some of us don't get off of the computer on those days. Don't hold a grudge if someone jumps down your throat. The ones that are doing it aggressively or in a harmful manner usually are taken care of by the moderators, the others are likely just trying to make sure that the animal is in the best situation possible.

My two cents.

Jason

No need to take things so personally man. I looked over the threads you linked as well, and didn't see anything that looked like a "personal" attack. What I see is people expressing their feelings and opinions about a certain situation, which is what I assume the original poster(s) are looking for by posting the thread. I think if you take the time to look back at this forum as a whole, you will find that 99.9% of the people on here are genuinely trying to help newcomers who may have questions about their setup, or newcomers who set up their enclosures according to a PetCo caresheet and are now finding that they were given incorrect/incomplete information. The individuals who come onto these forums to start flame wars, or just to cause drama, are either ignored (causing them to lose interest and not come back) or take things to a different level and are weeded out of the system using the infraction point system.

All in all, ball-pythons.net is arguably the best source for ball python info on the net, as well as being one of the most friendly and drama-free forums I've ever been a part of...

I am not trying to be immature .. I just think that there are better way to go about giving advice, or even ripping people down for sharing something.

A few of the thread that really got me aggrivated were taken down .. so in turn my ammunition was depleted as well.

I hear what you guys are saying, but I feel that a few of the things I have seen need to be addressed, thus I made the post.

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Originally Posted by cuda

I am not trying to be immature .. I just think that there are better way to go about giving advice, or even ripping people down for sharing something.

A few of the thread that really got me aggrivated were taken down .. so in turn my ammunition was depleted as well.

I hear what you guys are saying, but I feel that a few of the things I have seen need to be addressed, thus I made the post.

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Taken down or moved to QT, it's pretty rare to see a whole thread deleted.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Taken down or moved to QT, it's pretty rare to see a whole thread deleted.

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deleted .. or at least I lost the post counts for what I had posted, and I looked back at the person who started the thread and it was not on their list either.

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Originally Posted by cuda

deleted .. or at least I lost the post counts for what I had posted, and I looked back at the person who started the thread and it was not on their list either.

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If you dont have access to QT, then you wouldnt see it in the post count.

But yea, if they go way off in the deep end, they end up locked and sometimes deleted.

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Originally Posted by cuda

I am pissed. I like using forums. I like posting and reading. Latly these forums have turned into more a grouping of people who are willing to jump down someones throat at a moments notice for anything.

The appeal of even staying here and participating was that it is a group of people who enjoy the same things passing information along, and chatting. If all the members are going to do is wait for the next newbie to come in here and post something that is incorrect just to chop them down and tell them how horrible of a person they are, count me out.

I seriously think you guys all need to chill. The point of this place is not to show off how much knowledge we have by telling others they know less, but for us all to grow together, learning from each other and being their to support those that need it.

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I find the sensitive nature of some of the people here to be very comical at times, not you cuda, but I have to wonder if these wackos just sit at their computers and twitch...and I thought my co-workers were bad. Geesh! :rolleyes:

Hey Cuda, if I, me personally, haven't been involved in a thread there is VERY little chance that anyone was actually personally attacked.

I speak from a great deal of experience both with the keeping of reptiles and forum based communication. I know of what I speak.

You make some good but rather unfounded charges. You see, you are not in a position to make decisions regarding posts, who makes them nor how they are made. I am not, 99.7% of the membership is not. (they have a LOT of mods here hence the .3% shy of 100 instead of 1% like most sites, being generous of course)

However, your approach, while based in a solid foundation of good intentions, has gone amiss.

Had you shown what offended you, shown how YOU would word it so that it was no longer an offensive post, lead by example instead of merely complaining, then you would have had something to fall back on.

Lead by example, don't be shy.

Don't be obnoxious or take this personally, I'd say it to most anyone who I thought had an iota of a chance of being a good member here.

Remember, what you read may not be what the author wrote. When in doubt, ask.

Hi,

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Originally Posted by cuda

Also, there was a post made yesterday about a video of a Rabbit defending it's area/babies/self from a snake, and the result was something that some considered funny, irony or whathave you, and that was taken down.

I just feel that people are a little too sensitive lately. Is it the time of year? People stressed out?

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Actually this one was moved to the Quarantine room not deleted - to see it you need to PM and Admin and ask them.

And I was the one acting like a total grouch about it. :oops:

I did say in post 20 I was tired and cranky and stopped posting in the thread. It was 2 am for me at the end of a long day and, in hindsight, I should have logged off and went to bed about 3 hours earlier. :colbert:

My reaction was not to the video itself more the way in which it was presented. You and the OP considered it funny - I didn't see anything that made me want to laugh.

In my irritable state posting a video of a snake and a rabbit fighting to a forum of snake and rabbit keepers seemed extremely insensitive when the word funny was attatched.

I guess we have different opinions on what should be shared and the manner of doing so. And that's fair enough really.

But yeah - the time of the year really does come into it as the forums have seasons of people joining with a new baby etc.

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Originally Posted by cuda

You name it ..

Temps
Hides
Enclosure

The point is there are a lot of people that come here thinking they have it all figured out .. and they don't, and the community collectively attacks them for thinking they do. I have seen it done, and I don't like it. If I were to have puchased my first BP with, lets say, only Petco's caresheet as a guide, and then I came here to show off my new pet and I got the reaction and treatment that some here have given .. I would not come back.

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Now this one has a slightly different reasoning behind it which I may not be the best at explaining but I will try.

We know that there are many ways of keeping these animals - and indeed have an advanced husbandry section expressly for discussing these.

But.

In the intrests of simplicity we recommend one main method - for the simple reason that by the time people come here many of them will have seen conflicting information over and over again.

So we tend to offer one way that is inexpensive, simple to set up, and will work very well for them and the animal until they are familiar enough with the needs of and interactions with their pets to know if something they try isn't working.

On the whole we try and do this in a friendly, helpfull way - but we are just normal people too and fallible is built into the design.

We do, in fact, see threads like this one on a fairly regular basis too - the atmosphere here is different to those found on a lot of other forums and some people really don't like that and feel irritated by the restrictions on what they can say or do.

But the reason for this has already been posted in this thread - parents can feel safe letting their children browse here unsupervised.

For the other type of behaviour by more chilled out types there is the whole rest of the net.

I feel I haven't really explained this very well but since I am now thinking in circles I'll hit post and then try and let someone else explain it better.


dr del

Honestly, the only people I see getting flamed here in husbandry threads are the people who flat out refuse to take the advice they asked for. For example, I've seen several thread where people ask if it's okay to have two snakes in one enclosure. After given multiple reasons why this is unhealthy (and possibly deadly) for your snakes, they continue to argue about why it really is okay for their snakes. These people who blatantly disregard the advice and opinions of seasoned breeders/keepers, usually do get a stern talking to. And deserve it.

As for the rest, everybody is entitled to their own opinions. A debate is to be expected in most threads. Not everybody is always going to agree with everybody else. But just because somebody disagrees with somebody else doesn't mean that anybody is getting 'flamed.'

Cuda, while I understand your concern and appreciate you expressing it, I would suggest you look at the percentage of threads that go "wrong" compared to those that stay on track, that offer good and varied advice and give support to our membership. Peter's current thread on the illness in his collection being a good example of this.

Yes threads go wrong, yes members do occasionally argue or become a tad too passionate about something - that is life whether it's on a computer or off it. You'll see threads get moved into QT, you will occasionally see threads locked, posts removed, warnings from staff in threads and infractions given. That's because there is a large and active staff here that is striving to keep the threads on topic and within the TOS of this site. Do we always get in a thread fast enough to diffuse or re-direct it - nope and it's not possible to do so every single time with every post here considering the daily traffic on this site.

Cuda, there is a button to report a post. It's available on every thread ever posted here and we do attend to these notifications in as timely a manner as we can. We are also available by PM and you will note that most times there is at least one or two staff members around. I'd suggest you avail yourself of the systems we have set up if you feel in future that a thread is going in a direction you personally find uncomfortable. I cannot assure you that the staff, as a group, will always agree with your assessment of a thread's tone but we do carefully monitor these situations.