cruel world

ok tonight me, the wife and my brother went out with some of our snakes, like we do often. we went to petsmart the workers there know us for our snakes and the snakes are always a big hit and we hang around and show kids and tell them about snakes, and just sort of show how nice and friendly snakes can be. but tonight was different. ok i know most people are naturally afraid of snakes, but tonight they took it to far. we were there in the store talking with the workers and some kids and i was explaining housing and sexing snakes to a group of people when this family walked in and looked at my wife who had our big female around her neck letting the kids look at her, when one of the people in the family looked at her and said god she is discusting.
then some old guy went out of his way to come up to me and say ( in a very smug voice) that thing is going to kill you and your family one night. i just laughed and said i am willing to take that chance. then we were standing in the reptile row when that same family walked by and said omg get away from me, then they went to the manager and tried to have us kicked out. i held my tongue the whole time but that was just mean we are still people. it really upset my girl. and i wount lie it pissed me off.

That would anger me too.
I would talk back though.. it's just my nature. Hopefully you have some friends in the store that would support you if someone asked to kick you out. Your not harming them, they're not allergic, and they really have no reason to fear them if they are harmless and aren't close to them.

I doubt that snake could kill your family one night.. AHaha.

i think if i was to get killed by a ball python i would be famous, lol because i would prob be the first to die from them. and yes the managers all like us. so they just told the family to stay away from us.

It was bound to happen eventually. Not that it's fair but they have the right to their opinion, too.

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Originally Posted by python.princess

It was bound to happen eventually. Not that it's fair but they have the right to their opinion, too.

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They have the right to complain, but they do NOT have the right to insult.

Before one decides to be offended by the opinion of an ignorant lout one should first consider whether or not the lout's opinion has merit.

If you wouldn't ask the guys advice on whether it was sunny outside or not, why give a Flaming Rat's Patootie what he thinks of you?

Sure, it was rude and crude and stupid.

Welcome to America. Home of the rude and crude and stupid.

Also home to the evolved, the aware and the intelligent.

You can actually pick what group you want to belong to.

The family you spoke of made their choice, a poor one as far as I am concerned, but THEY chose it.

Now YOU get to pick.

I didn't say they do. But like I said, it's bound to happen. When you take your snakes into the public, it's to be expected from time to time. Some people are disgusted by them and others are deathly afraid of them. Those people are gonna have a problem with having them flaunted in front of them. Just sayin...

oh we always get some people that avoid us, but being rude and calling names and S**t like that is just uncalled far. its not like i was going up to them and trying to get them to hold them i was sitting down talking to little kids and their parents. i think people should just show a little respect. i dont walk up to people with thier pit bulls and german sheperds and say god your discusting and that dog is going to kill you.

I've had almost similar things happen -- I just kind of chuckle and say "your ignorance is amusing" or something of that nature depending on how rude they are.

It comes with the territory.

i would take my babies to a public place like that ...... too much can go wrong ..... will it? probably not, but i'm not willing to take the chance!

Yes the people were ignorant ....... but like the folks above me said ....... its gonna happen

i know it happens it always does and normally i just laugh it off but tonight it was just a little much. im not really mad and i will go back because the people there that do like them always have so much fun looking at them. i know its a risk to take snakes into the public but we are very careful when we do so.

"Your ignorance is amusing"... I like that one! I'll have to use it myself.

Sadly yes, those people are out there...too many if you ask me, and they are very rude and insulting.
My approach is this: A first rude comment gets a corrective response. In the case of what the old man said, I would tell him that's virtually impossible. If it was left at that, fine. If the person, or persons with them, continued the insults or rude comments, I would get a bit snippy with something like: 'I would get some proper education on snakes before saying something like that again.'
If I really wanted to get uppity, I would say 'Oh, are you a Biology major? I am.'

I like to keep things civil, even if those speaking are not. It does no good to sink their level, they'll just beat you with experience. Rather, you should try to raise them to yours. :)

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Originally Posted by Argentra

"Your ignorance is amusing"... I like that one! I'll have to use it myself.

Sadly yes, those people are out there...too many if you ask me, and they are very rude and insulting.
My approach is this: A first rude comment gets a corrective response. In the case of what the old man said, I would tell him that's virtually impossible. If it was left at that, fine. If the person, or persons with them, continued the insults or rude comments, I would get a bit snippy with something like: 'I would get some proper education on snakes before saying something like that again.'
If I really wanted to get uppity, I would say 'Oh, are you a Biology major? I am.'

I like to keep things civil, even if those speaking are not. It does no good to sink their level, they'll just beat you with experience. Rather, you should try to raise them to yours. :)

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I'm going to major in Zoology! That would almost work better I think?

:) I wanted to do Zoology...but that school is 50+ miles away.

i mainly just laugh and go on about my bussines. i think its funny when someone like 40 feet away freaks out and runs off, because your like wtf can this snake fly or something.

It's a superfast ball python, and it will sqiurm it's way along the slick floor after them, doncha know?
I'm sorry to hear you had to deal with idiots today. Sometimes it's just too much, and you gotta vent about it. I certainly understand.
The people with german shepards and pit bulls also get the "Your dog is gonna turn on you and kill your whole family" comments.

I'm glad to hear you do the education. That's what will help the next generation not have to deal with as many ignorant idiots.

I'm stealing the "Your ignorance is amusing." comment too. Being mildly amused by stupid people is usually a hobby of mine too.

I would have educated them that it would take a much larger snake, instead of not informing thease people I would have let them know that this species of snake doesnt get large, they dont kill people..

Honestly thier fear can be backed up with some evidence, In a town near where I grew up in Arizona an 11 year old boy was killed by a large reticulated python that the family owned and when he was discovered the snake had the boy up to his knees in his mouth....

My point is they didnt know that snake was "large" for the species, they probably thought this was going to be a 16 foot snake one day...

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Originally Posted by Mochelem

Honestly thier fear can be backed up with some evidence, In a town near where I grew up in Arizona an 11 year old boy was killed by a large reticulated python that the family owned and when he was discovered the snake had the boy up to his knees in his mouth....

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I don't recall ever hearing about such a thing. Can you provide links or verification please?

Thanks.

when you transport your snakes from your home to petsmart/wherever, how do you transport them?

personally, my snakes for the most part do not leave my home. they sure aren't going to a place like petsmart where they could pick up mites or something else.

i am very curious as to what motivates you to take them out into public?

Most likely the same things that motivate people to take their dogs, cats, ferrets and such: Education and a love of the animals.

I know that if I had the time, I would SO take my big female normal out. Heck, I want to make a career of taking my animals out to places to educate people! There are too many folks out there whose ignorance is simply from lack of education. When you tell them the truth, their eyes light up. Naturally there are those whose ignorance comes from stubborn, superstitious, old-fashioned beliefs which are so wrong. Those people...you can't do a thing about.

But, most people just don't know and really appreciate the education. I run into people all the time who don't know a single true thing about snakes, and thank me for clearing things up. In fact, some of them continue to ask me questions...like a certain bus driver from India who thought all snakes were poisonous and, since I corrected him, has been asking me more questions every time I'm on his bus. :D

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Originally Posted by wilomn

I don't recall ever hearing about such a thing. Can you provide links or verification please?

Thanks.

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It was when i was about 14 years old, if you need proof search through the Willcox. Az newspaper about 13 years ago... You can probably access it through the Willcox, Az library....

This isnt somthing that happened recently with links all over the web... I dont need to prove anything to you...

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Originally Posted by Mochelem

It was when i was about 14 years old, if you need proof search through the Willcox. Az newspaper about 13 years ago... You can probably access it through the Willcox, Az library....

This isnt somthing that happened recently with links all over the web... I dont need to prove anything to you...

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The fact is that huge species can kill a human, thatas why there is some fear out there...

What a bunch of jerks! I would have told them to piss off, had my child not have been there. You are a wise person. Holding your tongue and all. [= Cheers to you!

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Originally Posted by Argentra

Most likely the same things that motivate people to take their dogs, cats, ferrets and such: Education and a love of the animals.

I know that if I had the time, I would SO take my big female normal out. Heck, I want to make a career of taking my animals out to places to educate people! There are too many folks out there whose ignorance is simply from lack of education. When you tell them the truth, their eyes light up. Naturally there are those whose ignorance comes from stubborn, superstitious, old-fashioned beliefs which are so wrong. Those people...you can't do a thing about.

But, most people just don't know and really appreciate the education. I run into people all the time who don't know a single true thing about snakes, and thank me for clearing things up. In fact, some of them continue to ask me questions...like a certain bus driver from India who thought all snakes were poisonous and, since I corrected him, has been asking me more questions every time I'm on his bus. :D

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Like in my woods class! Clearly they are all guys except me.. (typical) And when the teacher asks us to tell the class one hobby (why does every senior class do this? I'm not a 2nd grader.. O.o) I of course tell them collecting various species of snakes.
He asked what kind so I told him the 4 types I currently have, and then everyone was shocked by how big the '7 ft male RTB' will get and how boas and pythons ARE NOT VENOMOUS.

It made me laugh at how much people don't know.

You would not believe how ignorant some people are. A while back I was frequenting another reptile forum to discuss chameleons. I was just browsing around in general one night and I got onto a thread about whether or not it was OK to sleep with your BP. Of course, the obvious reasons were brought up... But, then this woman added that she had a BP and she would definitely recommend against it because of the danger of being choked to death in your sleep! To back her warning up, she added that she had a BP that's 3' long (wow!) and he can already choke her when she puts him around her neck.

I posted some not-to-friendly reply trying to set the record straight and - you know what - it didn't make any difference. That's the sad thing - most ignorant people are just fine with their ignorance. sigh....

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Originally Posted by Mochelem

The fact is that huge species can kill a human, thatas why there is some fear out there...

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By this logic should not the entire population fear not only cars but alcohol as well?

I'm not surprised that you have no proof and that I heard no thing about it. I've been living in this wonderful city for a looooooong time.

Az. is just a hop and a skip away and the reptile world is small.

But hey, maybe it did happen and they kept it under wraps until just now when you outed them.

Better watch out, there may be a hit squad after you right now.

I share your feelings of anger but there will always be ignorant, and down right stupid and mean people in the world. It doesn't matter what you're doing there is always going to be someone out there who's going to be a douche bag about it.

I back all of these comments up, education is the key here... There are some species of snakes that can do serious harm if not death to a human.... Sure that baby anaconda or retic in the store looks real cute, but what happens when it becomes big enough to kill you? People need to be educated on what snakes can do....

Sure Im an advocate for keeping snakes, however I dont keep spitting cobras because i dont want to die, BP's are seldom agressive, the only reason people are afraid is because they dont know about the species....

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Originally Posted by bearhart

You would not believe how ignorant some people are. A while back I was frequenting another reptile forum to discuss chameleons. I was just browsing around in general one night and I got onto a thread about whether or not it was OK to sleep with your BP. Of course, the obvious reasons were brought up... But, then this woman added that she had a BP and she would definitely recommend against it because of the danger of being choked to death in your sleep! To back her warning up, she added that she had a BP that's 3' long (wow!) and he can already choke her when she puts him around her neck.

I posted some not-to-friendly reply trying to set the record straight and - you know what - it didn't make any difference. That's the sad thing - most ignorant people are just fine with their ignorance. sigh....

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Wait, its okay to sleep with a ball python? >_> I mean I wouldn't be worried about it choking me [lame reason] but I would worry I'd smash the poor guy. LOL

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Originally Posted by Mochelem

I back all of these comments up, education is the key here... There are some species of snakes that can do serious harm if not death to a human.... Sure that baby anaconda or retic in the store looks real cute, but what happens when it becomes big enough to kill you?

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I've been saying this since my first Ball Python that I got back in 2002: If you're dumb enough to get hurt/killed by your pet then you probably deserved it. The truth is one thing you should always practice, especially when it comes to owning pets, is common sense. Unfortunately common sense isn't so common these days.

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Originally Posted by Mochelem

Sure Im an advocate for keeping snakes, however I dont keep spitting cobras because i dont want to die, BP's are seldom agressive, the only reason people are afraid is because they dont know about the species....

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The main reason people are afraid is because they've been taught to be afraid their whole lives. Snakes are evil, menacing, disgusting creatures and that's all they'll ever be to some people. It has nothing to do with the snakes themselves. My mother just finally got my grandma to enter her house for the first time since my mom got a baby cornsnake MONTHS ago. Before that, she used to be there all the time. She did take that little step, but she refuses to be in the same room with the snake and will leave if my mom ever takes it out of it's enclosure in her presence. Because it's 'Satan's serpent.'

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Originally Posted by wilomn

By this logic should not the entire population fear not only cars but alcohol as well?

I'm not surprised that you have no proof and that I heard no thing about it. I've been living in this wonderful city for a looooooong time.

Az. is just a hop and a skip away and the reptile world is small.

But hey, maybe it did happen and they kept it under wraps until just now when you outed them.

Better watch out, there may be a hit squad after you right now.

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Like I said Im an advocate for keeping snakes thats why Im here, but an 18 foot retic is nothing to play with.

Your exagerating what I said now and its not cool man... I never said a BP can kill somone. What Im saying is there are some cases of big species messing people up. Because of this people are scared of all snakes... Education is the key here...

And like I told you Im not going to spend a few days looking through newspaper articles if they are even on the net.... Do you remember what the internet was 14 years ago? Most people hadnt even been on the internet then... So if you want the proof look it up yourself.. While your doing that I have a job a wife and kids to pay attention to... Not prove somthing to somone I dont even know on the web...

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Originally Posted by python.princess

Because it's 'Satan's serpent.'

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Isn't it kinda, you know, ass backwards to look at snakes as a creation or minion of the devil?

And then there are the religious nuts who are trained by whatever church they attend to hate snakes. Didn't the snake in that story about the boy and the girl live on the tree of knowledge? Hmm...

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Originally Posted by jorgasm

Wait, its okay to sleep with a ball python? >_> I mean I wouldn't be worried about it choking me [lame reason] but I would worry I'd smash the poor guy. LOL

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no - not OK.. The sane people on the thread raised the obvious down-sides like you might roll over on it - or, most likely, it will just slither off.

This one poster was kind of out of the blue. But, what got me was that *she owned a bp*!!!!

Comparing large snakes, like retics, to small snakes like balls,
is like comparing cats to tigers. I agree in educating some people, but some just dont want to get educated.

About the only way to die from a ball python is to choke on it.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

Isn't it kinda, you know, ass backwards to look at snakes as a creation or minion of the devil?

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Obviously. But that's how many people were raised and they're not gonna let you or anybody else change their mind.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

By this logic should not the entire population fear not only cars but alcohol as well?

I'm not surprised that you have no proof and that I heard no thing about it. I've been living in this wonderful city for a looooooong time.

Az. is just a hop and a skip away and the reptile world is small.

But hey, maybe it did happen and they kept it under wraps until just now when you outed them.

Better watch out, there may be a hit squad after you right now.

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And another point about your post that wasnt thought out too well, yes you should fear cars, would you stand in front of one? I know I almost poop myself during the times there is a near accident.. Whats one of the first lessons you learn from your parents when you walk? "look both ways before crossing the road"...

And alcohol doesnt have much better of a track record... Lets see you can die driving on it, die from alcohol poisoning, hell there was a guy here last year who froze to death on his front poarch from passing out because he was drunk....

Also 14 years ago did you even keep reptiles? 14 years ago how into the "reptile world" were you? Back then word didnt travel far or fast because there wasnt internet everywhere. I dont care how close to AZ you live, just because you didnt hear about it doesnt mean it didnt happen..

Ok boys... calm down. :)

As for the whole 'Satin's Serpent' thing... I won't get into it except to agree that it is ridiculous but that's what they were taught and are almost forced to continue to believe. Those are the folks that are too stubborn to reach, usually, and it's not worth the effort. Just make sure they stay the heck away from you and your snakes and all will be right with the world. :D

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Originally Posted by Mochelem

And like I told you Im not going to spend a few days looking through newspaper articles if they are even on the net.... Do you remember what the internet was 14 years ago? Most people hadnt even been on the internet then... So if you want the proof look it up yourself.. While your doing that I have a job a wife and kids to pay attention to... Not prove somthing to somone I dont even know on the web...

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easy there killer... don't you know wes has been around since the beginning of time? You're the one making claims about pythons eating people, not him.

people aren't scared of snakes because of the big one's that will eat them, a large python would never even occur to your normal person when thinking about a snake. People fear snakes because they're taught to because they either don't know any better, or are just ignorant in the worst way and won't be told otherwise. We aren't born scared of snakes.

easy wes, you're scaring the children again...

Jeeze, some people are ignorant. It's simple, if you don't like what you see, don't look. Theres no need for insults/comments.

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Originally Posted by Mochelem

And another point about your post that wasnt thought out too well, yes you should fear cars, would you stand in front of one? I know I almost poop myself during the times there is a near accident.. Whats one of the first lessons you learn from your parents when you walk? "look both ways before crossing the road"...

And alcohol doesnt have much better of a track record... Lets see you can die driving on it, die from alcohol poisoning, hell there was a guy here last year who froze to death on his front poarch from passing out because he was drunk....

Also 14 years ago did you even keep reptiles? 14 years ago how into the "reptile world" were you? Back then word didnt travel far or fast because there wasnt internet everywhere. I dont care how close to AZ you live, just because you didnt hear about it doesnt mean it didnt happen..

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It's funny when one of you kids starts trying to tell me that way back when we didn't know things because there wasn't any internet.

Get real buck-o.

There were telephones and newspapers and TV and TALKING to each other, not to mention letter writing and Newsletters. We actually knew stuff even way back then, before the internet brought it instantly to your living room.

I've got snakes older than 14. There are days when it does feel like I've been around forever.

Forgive my naivete'. You see, when I make a statement purporting such wondrous things as snakes swallowing people up to their knees, I am prepared to prove that I am not the attention seeking ignorance propounding urban legend repeating center of attention thin skinned repeats whatever he hears as truth.

I just figured that was sort of a low standard that anyone could manage.

I see that I was incorrect in my thinking.

My apologies.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOh, I would get in such a heated argument with them it wouldn't even be funny. I am a spit fire when people criticize my snakes, Its happened too. You don't even want to know what words come out of my mouth in that sort of scenario. yeesh. lol :rolleyes:

wow alot has happened since i went to bed. easy guys not need to fight. lol, and as for the guy they post several pages back on how i transport my snakes... i have cages set aside for just this task and it works fine i would never put my snakes in harms way i love each and every one of them. as for snakes killing people, i know it can happen and yes a large ball python can choke you but like i tell people that ask me about them strangling me, you would have to let it choke you for it to do so. so if a bp kills you i call it suicide lol. and as for sleeping with a snake, why. to much can happen you can roll on them, they can get way, they are not like dogs they wont like come and curl up next to you and stay there all night.

Yes that is what I was saying, peoples fear comes from not knowing about snakes. They view a BP no different than an anaconda...

I use every chance I get to inform people about my snakes, and how they are harmless...

Okay enough with the slinging insults back and forth. Keep this thread on topic, which is our society and it's reaction to snakes being taken out in public and how best we should respond to negative feedback.

Most of these type of stores have signs that say "Pets Welcome" and they urge you to bring your pets in. Ignorance is not confined to snakes in these situations. As an owner of a Dogue de Bordeaux (a well mannered and friendly one I might add) I have encountered people both in stores such as this one and walking in my neighborhood that recoil in fear and pronounce him to be a vicious animal. In fact when I moved into this neighborhood someone reported to the police that we were harboring a vicious animal that is a danger to small children. The canine officer was dispatched to the call and he had a good laugh. People with toy breeds of dogs have told me that I should not be allowed to own such a dog. Evidently they feel that a dog should be similar to a bunny rabbit. If you have a pet that is a little outside of the ordinary you just need to be prepared to deal with ignorance on a regular basis because you will encounter it regularly.

I find that quite funny, Dale, because I'd flat out trust a larger breed anyday of the week over a toy breed when it comes to my kids. A lot of the smaller breeds are very snappy especially around fast moving kids that can pet a little too hard. I know growing up with had GSD's a bit over the 100 lb mark that were completely devoted and gentle with children but you had to watch our little red doxie....she's turn on a dime and nip sometimes for no apparent reason.

People are just people though and often think somone needs to know their opinion. It's your opinion, therefore keep it to YOURself is my thought on those types LOL. Last time anybody fussed at me about having snakes and kids I gave them the stats on dog bites yearly and asked them nicely if they kept Fido confined away from the their poor kids. :P

give me a large dog over a small one any day. I have to admit I have met some personable small dogs, but usually they're the ones that are out of control and the owners just ignore it because they're little. I've seen more vicious small dogs than I have large dogs. I don't want to generalize but it seems to me large dog owners take more responsibility for their animals than do those of small dogs, because fifi the teacup chihuahua is just gonna sit there and gnaw off your ankle and not do much harm and it's going to be ignored even though it is still aggression. Meanwhile the impeccably trained large breed will be demonized.

We as a community (all animals not just snakes) do have to take this responsibility because so many people are uninformed. There are those like you Dale that properly trained and socialized your dog, but there are other who got the biggest meanest looking bully breed dog because they're trying look tough.
Same with snakes. Unfortunately some owners get snakes because they think it's the cool irreverent thing to do. Kinda like some people like live feedings because it's one animal killing another. Because people don't understand that people like us on this board actually appreciate our animals for their beauty and because we're just plain fascinated by them they're more likely to group us in with the thrill seekers and irresponsible owners. (A certain youtube celebrity comes to mind with his spouting of ridiculous information. I just saw another one of his videos, which is what spurred this diatribe.)

Comes with the territory, it's just unfortunate to hear when responsible keepers are vilified for it (like one of our members losing his job recently). THe OP's encounter could have been much worse, for example the educator who had his burm's head stomped, because there are some people who refuse to come out of their comfort zone. Education is great, but it won't reach everyone, this family is a perfect example. They were probably not afraid of your snakes, they were probably just reacting to poor information and the stigma surrounding these animals. People like that often will not change their ways either.

sorry for the rant.

I dont think that any church preaches that snakes are evil, at least I've never heard that in any any church. My wife is evangelical christian and she does not give me a hard time about my 1.1 balls, she actually like them. I think it has to do with personal beliefs and fears of some people and they justify their hate with saying stuff about the bible.

One thing I always tell people is that a pair of snakes got on Noah's Ark.

:banana::snake::pinkele::carrot::hokitty::tricho::teevee:

^my son wanted me to add these. LOL