treating belly/scale rot

what do you do to treat belly rot? i have read conflicting information on the subject

Honestly? I'd pm Becky as I consider her the go-to woman for meds for problems with snakes. She'll have no problems letting you know what to do and if a vet visit is called for :)

I had a snake that had scale rot. I would take it to the vet ASAP for some antibiotics...

Depends on the severity. If it's just brown tinges on the scale tips, the soaking the snake in chlorhexidine gluc. or betadine(chlorhex doesn't need rinsed off), and then lubing the snake with polysporin or sulfadene will work fine.

If it's to where the scales are flaking/falling off/have an odor, then the snake will need some injectable meds along with the above treatment.

I've had one snake come in(none in my collection in these 4, almost 5 years of keeping them) that was burned severely on the back 3rd of her belly. The scales were edematous(collecting fluid). So I poked open every scale with a sterile needle, scrubbed her belly gently but firmly with chlorhexidine, then lubed her up with polysporin. She got put on newspaper and had a very small water bowl(3" ceramic souffle dish) for a few weeks. I washed her in soap and water every few days just to keep her clean and to reapply the polysporin. She healed up wonderfully and went to a good owner here on the forum(prototypePythons).

I've never had a case of belly rot here, even if the snake has tipped its water bowl and peed in the water and sat in it for a day and a half. Get 'em wiped off and popped in a clean tub and they are fine. Takes a long time in an extremely dirty enclosure for belly rot to form, unless the snake has a lowered immune system and is just prone to infection.

wow!i tend to think of things in leymens terms so i will try to clear this up.if you have a snake with a few irregular scales(discolored)i recomend neosporin with no pain killer twice a day and if it doesnt clear up with the next shed seek a reptile vet.also clean your tank/tub and change substrate to newspaper or paper towels so you can tell wat areas get soaked with urine or feces.also check your humidity to make sure it isnt too high.hope this helps the peeps that dont recognise the technical jargin

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Depends on the severity. If it's just brown tinges on the scale tips, the soaking the snake in chlorhexidine gluc. or betadine(chlorhex doesn't need rinsed off), and then lubing the snake with polysporin or sulfadene will work fine.

If it's to where the scales are flaking/falling off/have an odor, then the snake will need some injectable meds along with the above treatment.

I've had one snake come in(none in my collection in these 4, almost 5 years of keeping them) that was burned severely on the back 3rd of her belly. The scales were edematous(collecting fluid). So I poked open every scale with a sterile needle, scrubbed her belly gently but firmly with chlorhexidine, then lubed her up with polysporin. She got put on newspaper and had a very small water bowl(3" ceramic souffle dish) for a few weeks. I washed her in soap and water every few days just to keep her clean and to reapply the polysporin. She healed up wonderfully and went to a good owner here on the forum(prototypePythons).

I've never had a case of belly rot here, even if the snake has tipped its water bowl and peed in the water and sat in it for a day and a half. Get 'em wiped off and popped in a clean tub and they are fine. Takes a long time in an extremely dirty enclosure for belly rot to form, unless the snake has a lowered immune system and is just prone to infection.

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never mind im not going to bother with this last time i got flamed

Thank you Becky and Butters.

this belly rot was affecting the spider male we just picked up, its near the vent as you can see in the photo.. the snake popped fine, its not inside his body yet as we can see, his hemipenes are intact, had sperm plugs that came out and was not showing any swelling, exc internally. We treated him last night after washing him up really well with chlor. and made sure to really cover the area with neosporin (no pain killer) making sure to go against the grain of the scales to get the med under the scales, not just on top it looked 100xs better just after washing him off, when i retreat the area today with neosporin i will take photos so you can see it now. He is OF COURSE in qt, away from the rest of our collection. If we cannot get the area to clear up in a few days-week we will absolutely take him to a herp vet. The man we got him from is a rack builder and says his staff takes care of his snakes which was his excuse for its condition, i didnt even ask to see his smaller animals so im not sure if all the babies had the same thing or not. We picked him up for $250.00, hes an 05' proven breeder. Basically the guy is replacing his "older" breeders with younger animals. We also picked up two 05' cinnamons who had a few small places with the same looking "rot" but not to the extent of this male which is why im picturing him for more people to see whats going on with him... does it also look like hes been over bred to anyone, that was one thing i thought of when i saw it... Is that why his vent area is the way it is? Either way obviously hes in QT, will not be bred or even think about being put with a female of ours until hes 100% better.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3063/...9b83c23ba1.jpg
the scales although red are not flaking, falling off nor do they have an odor which i guess is a good thing.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3219/...04086b054e.jpg

full body shot, hes 1158grams
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3102/...003b14419f.jpg
ok nixer?? if you have something helpful to say i encourage you to post it, obviously all people do different things and what works for some doesnt for others and visa versa, i would much rather get different info then none at all.

Im no expert here, but there is crust type stuff around the vent. The complete ball python shows a pic that looks very similar to that and it says its from over breeding... just an observation...

my wonderful brother in law borrowed our book my kevin from nerd (complete ball python) so i cant reference it. I too thought it looked like he was being over bred which is what i posted in my last response.. i just cleaned him up again today and took a few more photos of how it looks now. I personally think it looks alot better, pics in a few.... but what about the red/pink doesnt that look like scale/belly rot? In addition to being over bred? Again, I just got this animal yesterday, this is the first time we have ever done business with a breeder besides the guy that is local to us... the animal was nice looking, right price and it looked like something we could treat so we snagged him.

Yes the red scales do look like it might be the early signs, it could also be thermal burn... Either way similar treatments are needed. I would continue doing what your doing and see if it gets better by the next shed... If not I would go to the vet...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3066/...4feb4be790.jpg
an improvement if ive ever seen one... dont you think?

Mochelem, thanks for your input!! Its certainly very helpful. How long after he heals should we keep him in QT? How long is typical no-breeding rest? Our female who we would breed with him wont be ready to start until November anyway so I was wondering if thats enough time for him? (assuming it clears up 100% quickly)

Yes it does look better. As long as your seeing progress then continue treatment.. The biggest thing is to keep it clean.

But after seeing a close up pic Im 95% sure thats over breeding. If you look at the pics in the book here they look very similar...

Have you talked to the person you got the snakes from about this?

He's a nice spider and i'm glad he's getting better..............but why would anybody bring that guy to a show and attempt to sell him like that? :confused:

He's nice Ashley I'm glad that spider will get proper care now. Some people just don't care about there animals.

No, hes in Daytona... ive already come home. When I spoke to him about it he said it isnt him who cares for the snakes, its his staff.. a really crummy answer if you ask me. Believe it or not it was ARS Caging.. he said he builds/does the racks and his staff takes care of his collection of breeding animals. Very nice guy, honestly had no idea what to sell his animals for. He wrote down $250.00 for the spider and low prices for adult male cinnamons, he was phasing out his older breeding males and bringing in new younger males that hes grown up. Another man (his friend) came by and started changing prices as we were making our deal... we went back later and all his prices went up at least a hundred on many of his animals.

The spider was actually not on display, we bought the two cinnamon males and asked if he had anything else, thats when he said he had the spider male he was waiting for someone to buy the cinnamons before putting out the spider (not enough large display cages) we snatched up all three. I figured he did look like he needed a bit of TLC but otherwise looked fine.

Thanks for the comments everyone!

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Originally Posted by Reediculous

He's a nice spider and i'm glad he's getting better..............but why would anybody bring that guy to a show and attempt to sell him like that? :confused:

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On the other hand, why would anybody go to a show and buy an animal like that?

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

On the other hand, why would anybody go to a show and buy an animal like that?

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Because if someone has the know-how or ability to do so.. make the animal better why wouldnt they? We certainly couldnt afford to rake out $600 on a breeding size male spider, the animal has a need for TLC, some basic care and maybe a vet visit but once thats all said and done we will have paid very little for a nice animal. Why wouldnt someone do that?

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Originally Posted by ADEE

Because if someone has the know-how or ability to do so.. make the animal better why wouldnt they? We certainly couldnt afford to rake out $600 on a breeding size male spider, the animal has a need for TLC, some basic care and maybe a vet visit but once thats all said and done we will have paid very little for a nice animal. Why wouldnt someone do that?

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I guess our point of views just differ when it comes to purchasing animals. As SatanicIntention mentioned, the conditions of the housing usually have to be pretty bad for quite a while to start a case of scale rot. And if that's the case, who knows what other kind of health problems might be waiting to pop up on you.
As for having a breeding size male, you shouldn't have much trouble finding an early 08 or late 07 male for less than $600, and easily get it up to size within the year -- possibly even by the time he's done with quarantine.
Maybe it's just a freak occurance for one of the breeder's animals to have a health problem, but from the sounds of it he's not very hands on and doesn't really know what's going on with his snakes. I guess I'm just not willing to give my money to someone selling snakes with below average health.

Sorry if I offended anyone with veterinary "jargon". Butters, no one could understand a word you said. Punctuation is your FRIEND! :colbert:

Ashley, what I told you was exactly what a vet, my vet(who is an exotics specialist who owns her own practice and teaches a veterinary technology program at a college I went to), would have told you.

It could be the beginnings of scale rot, it could be irritation from breeding too many females without a break, or it could be a minor burn. All of which are treated almost the same way. Keep clean, treat area with antibacterial/antifungal and apply polysporin(generic neosporin).

If the veterinary jargon is confusing, then just ask :) I never mind explaining things in an easier-to-understand way. But really, we all know what polysporin is(neosporin, just generic and therefore less expensive), sulfadene is a burn cream your kid's doctor has probably given you sometime over the life of your children(from burns, fungal infections or sunburn), and betadine or chlorhexidine is easy to obtain. Betadine at your local pharmacy or WalMart, and chlorhexidine most everyone uses to clean snake tubs.

How was what I said confusing?

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Sorry if I offended anyone with veterinary "jargon". Butters, no one could understand a word you said. Punctuation is your FRIEND! :colbert:

Ashley, what I told you was exactly what a vet, my vet(who is an exotics specialist who owns her own practice and teaches a veterinary technology program at a college I went to), would have told you.

It could be the beginnings of scale rot, it could be irritation from breeding too many females without a break, or it could be a minor burn. All of which are treated almost the same way. Keep clean, treat area with antibacterial/antifungal and apply polysporin(generic neosporin).

If the veterinary jargon is confusing, then just ask :) I never mind explaining things in an easier-to-understand way. But really, we all know what polysporin is(neosporin, just generic and therefore less expensive), sulfadene is a burn cream your kid's doctor has probably given you sometime over the life of your children(from burns, fungal infections or sunburn), and betadine or chlorhexidine is easy to obtain. Betadine at your local pharmacy or WalMart, and chlorhexidine most everyone uses to clean snake tubs.

How was what I said confusing?

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sorry to jack this thread but all you wanted was to sound professional.if you could not read wat i typed i feel sorry for you.i was in no way offended by your post,just trying to give info w/o the person having to look in a dictionary.not all of us know the chemical names for these things and if im the only one then i must be stupid.thanks for attacking me and my text!especially since all i was trying to do was help.i appreciate it!

Becky, thanks again for your post. I worked for a vet for many years a couple years ago so i understood exactly what you were talking about. Butters I think your post was a bit offensive, i highly doubt beckys intentions were to sound "professional" i think she posted what she knew would work. Thank you BOTH for your helpful postings I look forward to our new boy healing right up since he is getting better care now.

m00k.... I have raised all but two of my animals from hatchlings, while what you said is accurate in raising another animal we saw what we liked and we got it. Simple as that. Everyone as you said is different and have different reasons for doing things. I dont regret getting this male in the least.

What else am I supposed to call Betadine or chlorhexidine? The brown, tea colored stuff and the blue colored stuff? Jesus.. What about Neosporin? That's just a brand name.. It's polysporin or triple antibiotic ointment.

And I am a professional. If I want people to actually recognize that my information is credible, I want to at least speak like an intelligent person... People tend to listen better if your speech is on the same level as your knowledge... :rolleyes:

Everyone and their dog knows what Betadine, chlorhexidine and polysporin is. If you don't, then just ASK. Just like you'd ask a vet about what this or that means, it goes the same way.

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sorry to jack this thread but all you wanted was to sound professional.if you could not read wat i typed i feel sorry for you.i was in no way offended by your post,just trying to give info w/o the person having to look in a dictionary.not all of us know the chemical names for these things and if im the only one then i must be stupid.thanks for attacking me and my text!especially since all i was trying to do was help.i appreciate it!

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And if anybody CAN read this, well then, good job. :gj:

I think you both gave some great info...

Adee I wouldnt listen to anyone asking why you bought it in the first place, obviously you were attracted to the snake so you bought it. weather or not each would have bought it is not the point, the point is you got a snake you like and you rescued it, its in better hands now... When that snake is healed up I hope it helps you breed 100 spiders....

If you do end up going to the vet I would try to contact the breeder and see if he will comp any of the cost...

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Originally Posted by Mochelem

Adee I wouldnt listen to anyone asking why you bought it in the first place, obviously you were attracted to the snake so you bought it. weather or not each would have bought it is not the point, the point is you got a snake you like and you rescued it, its in better hands now... When that snake is healed up I hope it helps you breed 100 spiders....

If you do end up going to the vet I would try to contact the breeder and see if he will comp any of the cost...

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thanks Moch for the kind words... I too hope someday he helps us produce, spiders, bees, exc. As for the vet.. I have a great vet that is local to me, we bought the snake and intend to pay for the bills we incur because of them. I wouldnt and dont expect a breeder from the expo would be willing to help comp any costs, when you hand them your money and walk away your accepting any and all responsibility, im sure the breeder would say the same lol...

yea it was a bit offensive as i was offended by wat she said.there was no reason to attack me or my text.as i said befor i was trying to help.maybe next time ill just keep my stupid mouth shut and let the people that dont understand message you and you can handle it.this makes me sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!and sorry im not educated on the burn cream which is how i would describe it then call it by its chemical name.once again thanks for pointing your finger

wow butters, not only is it difficult to even read your posts but i dont understand while your getting so huffy over this post, are you kidding me?!

If someone said oh take medication for a headache i would ask what the name of the medication i needed to be getting... to me its common sense to refer to a medication by using its name, not necessarily what its used for. Neosporin can be used for a hundred different things. I really dont see where anyone attacked you in the first place.

Hi,

Could I ask you not to clutter up a thread about a sick snake with this?

If you feel the need to pursue it do it via PM's please.

Or perhaps compose a post that could be added to the abbreviations or a similar "what does this mean?" thread that people could be reffered to in the future.

Either way this is neither the time nor place.


dr del

thank you derek :gj:

any suggestions for the big guy?

Just trying to defend my reasoning, Derek. :) It was all meant in a calm, reasonable tone.

And Ashley, which big guy? Do they all have similar problems? Got all caught up in the twittiness, sorry!

I've treated burns/belly rot the same. Clean the animal with an antibacterial soap, using some gauze or a soft washcloth to lightly scrub the affected areas. Rinse the animal off and then apply some betadine or chlorhexidine, also scrubbing the affected areas. Then let dry(chlorhex you don't have to wash off, betadine you do), and then liberally apply the triple antibiotic ointment(or silvadene if you have some leftover from your children).

I've kept them on paper towels for the first week or so until they aren't so tender, and then they get newspaper. Tiny water bowl that they can't tip. Just reapply the neosporin every day or so. If you can wash the snake off in some light soapy water just to remove the old neosporin, keeping the skin open to air once in awhile, that would help.

Their bellies might get flakier as the infection goes away and the scales dry up, but it will get better with 2-3 sheds. My one rescue who was burned took 2 sheds and you couldn't even see where the injury was.

"the big guy" is the spider adult male (1150+g) who is having the problem lol.. its the only one. I was just wondering if Derek had any input in addition to yours.

Thanks so much for the help with him.. im looking forward to him healing and getting better. I actually have never had a skin burn, sunburn, exc with my kids so unfortunately i dont have any of the silvadene :weirdface ... hes on newspaper right now, i can certainly put him on paper towels until he heals a bit more

Oh right, :oops:

Nah - Becky nailed it.

She knows waaay more about this stuff than I do. :D


dr del

Becky had some great info indeed!!!

my bp has been under treatment for scale rot for around a month now.i give him baytril orally once a day and use pevadine scrub twice a day.he's shed twice,started feeding again and looks a lot better.didn't realise how long scale rot takes to remove:O

should i change his paper towels everyday? I would imagine it would make sense to keep from making it worse, i just want to make sure. He has a few new spots that have creeped up but otherwise looks great, not as swollen by his vent and i can actually see his spurs now. I have gone through almost a whole tube of neosporin in these last couple days. ((crosses fingers)) I hope he gets better

It wouldnt hurt to change it every day... Keeps things nice and clean, and if I were you I would go buy like 5 tubes of neosporin... Baytril from the vet would also help

too bad it isnt tablet baytril lol.. i have lots of that! The paper just gets so greasy because of the neosporin, i also find it looks more red when its due to be done.. for instance tonight it was pretty red, after i put the stuff on it, it toned right down and looked much better.

Doesn't need Baytril or anything else unless it starts to get infected(ie has a smell). Let his own immune system try to fight it first with the aid of the neosporin. They usually do fine :)

Thank you Becky for the reassurance... I really appreciate it. As of right now there is no smell/odor/exc. Im sure its just me being a worry wart concerned about it getting worse. You did say it was going to look worse before it got better right?:confused::weirdface

Yep, it'll always look worse before getting better. Scales may look dry and ragged, but as long as they are drying out and not staying wet and brown, that's a good sign. Once he sheds once, that will take a good bit of the mess away. After a second shed, you probably won't be able to tell.

As long as the paper towels aren't wet or soiled, I wouldn't worry about changing them every day. Maybe every 3rd should be sufficient.

they were never really wet, they were brown (now red when due to get more neosporin added) and lifted only in a few places. As soon as I wash his body, dry him off and reapply meds it looks 100xs better for several hours-the next day. The paper towels are getting kinda greasy from the neosporin as is the walls of the enclosure.

I would think that changing the paper towels every day would lower the risk of infection to the area... Thats the whole point of cleaning the snake every day so why not clean what the snake is laying in?

Hey guys have a 80g bp with a small would on its tail end about 4 weeks ago and a spot on its head as well (rubbing against tub fin by the handle) so after i cleared those up I was bathing her in betadine and warm water every other night. seemed to all clear up. Just today I noticed at the tail end and a few other scales on the belly she has some brown edges (like scale rot) so I am going back to beta-bathing and was thinking about using a topical ointment on her belly. All I have at the moment is a Tripple-anti (Bacitracin-Neomycin-Polymyxin B) I know the first two components are ok, how about the polymyxin b ?

Safe to use sparingly?