so frustrated!

So this upcoming year I wanted to get my feet wet... wanted to breed two of my properly sized females.... and give the other 11 another year to get older....

well tonight, for no particluar reason when holding one of the two females who just shed 2 days ago... I tried to pop... sure enough for the first time ever, 2 hemephenes popped out.

I am so pissed. HE was probed from the guy I got him from, the local pet shop owner, AND the verry popular local HERP Veteranarian...as a female. BS on that. I know what hemephenes look like, and HE has them.

I am so upset. How does this happen??? This is an 06, that has been probed by 3 different "know what their doing" people in the last 6 months.

I am beyond words. please help.


and yes, before anyone suggests otherwise, I know what peens look like. there is what looked like scent glands... then the blood red peens behind them. a little shorter then usual, but they are definately there.

Sorry to hear, I do find it odd that 3 people sexed it female!! Good luck on finding another.

Please allow me to rephrase. I am not frustrated or upset... I am PISSED! What is the deal? Is it that the three people had no idea what the hell they were doing? Or is sexing normally this difficult???


going to bed now, pissed off.

Livid is more accurate.

After the first person probed and told you it was a female did you tell the other 2 you thought it was a female before they probed?

They may not have known either and since you suspected it was a female they may have just gone along and agreed with you.

Its ok. Dont let it get you too down. Go to a local show and grab yourself a nice looking up to size normal. Youd be surprised at how much better youll feel when you spend a lil moola...

LOL

Awww Mike that truly does suck. Just to set your mind totally to rest though, why not have one more person (preferably an established reputable breeder) both pop and probe this snake in front of you. Don't tell them what gender you believe "it" to be. I know I'd be doing that just to make absolutely sure in my own mind that I had a male since it had been sexed multiple times as a female. I'd want both done - the pop and the probe in front of me - then my mind could accept the truth of it.

Mike, what were you thinking of breeding these two females to this year? I'm not sure what males you have at maturity for this coming season.

One thing that I have heard can happen is if someone (most likely the first person) incorrectly probes, then can go too deep, by pushing too hard. The next person that probes will go just as deep becasue there is a hole. Does this make sense?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wh00h0069

One thing that I have heard can happen is if someone (most likely the first person) incorrectly probes, then can go too deep, by pushing too hard. The next person that probes will go just as deep becasue there is a hole. Does this make sense?

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But then you'd have gotten three false probes as male (deep probing indicates male) not a male that has been probed shallow three times as a female. Personally I like a probe and pop method where you can check gender two ways.

Hey Mike, Don Kaye has some nice, breedable, pretty, normal females up for sale. Very reasonably priced too!

Thanks for all of your help guys and gals.... I have had time to simmer down a bit. I am still very upset, but it is not the end of the world. Just VERY frustrating. Popped him again this morning, and there is no mistaking it. He has two hemephenes. They are shorter then average. Maybe that is what was making them prope so short.

To answer your question Joanna, I have 3 breedable males to choose from this upcoming season. Very hard decisions.....

06 Graziani Jungle Pastel Male 1,100 grams
06 GEORGEOUS Cinny Male 1,000 grams
07 Spider Male 850 grams

Was going to breed one with the Cinny, and One with the spider... to try to make one holdback female Cinny, and one holdback female spider.

Oh well, back to the drawing board. At least the Cinny still has a girlfriend! and she is just under 2,000 grams on empty!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FIREball

After the first person probed and told you it was a female did you tell the other 2 you thought it was a female before they probed?

They may not have known either and since you suspected it was a female they may have just gone along and agreed with you.

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You know what Jeremy... this is probably exactly what happened without me realizing it.

Mike, you have a PM. :)

This sorta thing defintely sucks but it happens. I had my vet probe my first snake ever as a female and it turns out he's a male. Maybe you'll get lucky and someone will loan you a female for the upcoming year.

BPs always find a way to reinforce the patience aspect of the hobby lol

Are you sure you aren't seeing scent glands? Perhaps she just has a pair of big unns?

Anyway -- very sorry about the frustrations -- but breeder females are pretty cheap this year -- you can probably pick up a few for next to nothing to try your hand at breeding.

Tosha that is a good point, and a mistake that I have personally made myself. I have a funky girl that I have raised as a CH since her first shed. When she was ready for her first breeding season I popped her to double check and was devastated to see what I thought were hemipenes. After doing some research I found she just had some really big glands.
Here she is on her second clutch in two years.
http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/l...w-08-eggs3.jpg

Mike, I agree with the others to try and get one more opinion before giving up on her. I really hope they are just big scent glands, because even though my situation turned out good I was devastated when I thought my favorite she might be a he. Good luck man!

Adult female balls can seem to have hemipenes when you pop them hard. I can make all my adult females evert them, and if manipulated correctly, to excrete a dark brown fluid. However, these glands are short and always white in color. Hemipenes are invariably red in color, and longer if you pop them hard enough to fully extend them, which I generally dont do.

One thing is for sure, the older the ball gets, the harder they are to pop. I sex mine as soon as I take them from the egg container, and it's very easy to get the sex correct, and takes about 5 seconds a snake. At this early age, they don't quite have the coordination to hold their junk in, and penes evert quite easily. As for probes, just about useless in ball pythons IMO, and have a MUCH greater chance of damaging your snake.

Yep our 3,400 gram female has the biggest glands you've ever seen! :O Like you said though they are light in color, not the deep red of penes but man are they big! She surprisingly is very easy to pop. I think she was a flasher in another life LOL