Under Tank Heaters?????

I have been warned by a family member (and he has had and bred snakes for a long time) to shy away from U.T.H's as they could fault and really injure or kill ur pet. Trying to get an idea of how many of u guys use them and how u feel about them. I think that if I use one it will greatly help my humidity prob. as opposed to my ceramic heater that does a wonderfull job with the temp but the humidity is too low. Any and all feedback welcome-Ty -Ray

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Originally Posted by scales owner

I have been warned by a family member (and he has had and bred snakes for a long time) to shy away from U.T.H's as they could fault and really injure or kill ur pet. Trying to get an idea of how many of u guys use them and how u feel about them. I think that if I use one it will greatly help my humidity prob. as opposed to my ceramic heater that does a wonderfull job with the temp but the humidity is too low. Any and all feedback welcome-Ty -Ray

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Vast majority here probably use belly heat of some sort...UTH's, heat cable, Flexwatt. I use heat cable in my adult racks and flexwatt on my hatchling rack.

Yes they can get really hot and cook a snake... IF they are NOT used with a thermostat or dimmer at least!!
The Thermostat to control the output of heating devices is the MOST important piece of snake keeping equipment there is!

You should always try to go with belly heat (aka under the enclosure heat sources such as UTH pads and Flexwatt heat tape) for most snakes since they naturally get their warmth from surfaces... not from ambient air or sunlight except in very few cases. UTHs are great when used properly with a controller. Your friend obviously never used a thermostat, had a UTH burn out, and swore off them without even trying to control them.
The instructions on most pads are out of date and don't even consider regulation methods. :)

Ty anybody else????

If kept with a thermostat, the likely hood of the flexwatt or UTH failing is low (only if you keep the t-stat probe directly on the UTH!).
Even if it were to short out and cook your snake, if your checking on your snakes regularly hopefully you would be able to catch it or the snake would thermoregulate to the cool side of the enclosure.
Back-heat is another idea and is often used for baby racks.

When it comes to heating choices I'd also say buy quality and buy from a quality supplier. Of all the corners you can cut when making purchasing choices for a snake's enclosure, I really don't think the heating decision is the place to worry about the pennies. Buy good quality stuff, from a trusted supplier, use a tstat and use it according to the specs for that piece of equipment.

I use flexwatt on my tanks with now problems as long as they are tied into a thermostat. I keep an extra stat on hand that is wired up and ready to go incase one of the other ones go down.

Right now I only have UTHs for my Kenyans, but after reading this and a few other posts I was going to get them for the rest of my snakes. I had a quick question about the thermostat though: How exactly is the best (opinionated) way to set up the UTH, tstat,probe combo?

Wow happy with all the feedback please keep them coming ty.:D

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Originally Posted by Daemonicus

Right now I only have UTHs for my Kenyans, but after reading this and a few other posts I was going to get them for the rest of my snakes. I had a quick question about the thermostat though: How exactly is the best (opinionated) way to set up the UTH, tstat,probe combo?

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I foil tape the UTH to the bottom of my rack, tub, tank (whatever you are using and put the thermostat probe right on top of the UTH.

Then I take my thermometer probe and foil tape it directly over the hotspot on the inside of the enclosure and put the actual thermometer on the coolside.

Thanks man...
You ever have problems with the snake messing with the tape on the inside?

Nope, I put a bit of aspen over it or paper and they never mess with it. On cleaning day I just replace the tape with new tape no biggie since the stuff is so cheap

Do Not use tape inside the enclosure! The only possible exception might be painters/artist tape since it has almost no stickiness. Even foil tape is a no-no!

The best way to set things up is to foil tape the UTH or Flexwatt to the bottom outside of the enclosure, then tape the thermoSTAT probe directly to the UTH. To secure the thermometer probe, place it under the substrate against the enclosure floor and cover with substrate and the warm side hide. The hide will hold the cord down and make it harder for the snake to move it.

IMHO, having to reposition a probe is a lot less trouble than having to take a snake to the vet after it got caught up in tape.
And just because they've never encountered the tape before does not mean they won't later.

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Originally Posted by Argentra

Do Not use tape inside the enclosure! The only possible exception might be painters/artist tape since it has almost no stickiness. Even foil tape is a no-no!

The best way to set things up is to foil tape the UTH or Flexwatt to the bottom outside of the enclosure, then tape the thermoSTAT probe directly to the UTH. To secure the thermometer probe, place it under the substrate against the enclosure floor and cover with substrate and the warm side hide. The hide will hold the cord down and make it harder for the snake to move it.

IMHO, having to reposition a probe is a lot less trouble than having to take a snake to the vet after it got caught up in tape.
And just because they've never encountered the tape before does not mean they won't later.

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Do you put the Therm. probe between the tank and uth or on the bottom side(away from) the tank??

I tape the stat probe with foil tape to the underside of the UTH. It means setting the stat a little higher, but the stat settings don't really matter in the end...it's the thermoMeter or temp gun readings you want to follow. :)

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Originally Posted by Argentra

I tape the stat probe with foil tape to the underside of the UTH. It means setting the stat a little higher, but the stat settings don't really matter in the end...it's the thermoMeter or temp gun readings you want to follow. :)

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Thank you very much as soon as I get my butt in gear and get this bigger tank done I will HAVE to post some pics. Ty again!!!!-Ray

ReptileBasics.com :cool:

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Originally Posted by Daemonicus

Right now I only have UTHs for my Kenyans, but after reading this and a few other posts I was going to get them for the rest of my snakes. I had a quick question about the thermostat though: How exactly is the best (opinionated) way to set up the UTH, tstat,probe combo?

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I have both. Spyder Robotics Herpstat and a thermometer from walmart to regulate my temps.

I highly recommend Herpstat.

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Originally Posted by rmune0750

ReptileBasics.com :cool:

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I 2nd this!!!! great web site, I like it alot. I just ordered the 2X3 with a radiant heat panel, lighting, and a thermostat for under $500 with shipping. I have yet to received my order as I just ordered it and they must build it.

Some people might think $500 is too much for a snake but I look at it like this. I was using a 20L terrarium and it sucked I could not get my temps like I wanted and I couldn't keep my humidity right. Now granted I did not have all the info I needed. I did not have a T-stat, and the UTH just didn't do the job like I wanted, but that was my fault not of the fault of the equipment.

I hope you find a set up that works for you. Seeing as you already have several other snakes you probably have a pretty good grasp on what works for you.

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Originally Posted by Argentra

I tape the stat probe with foil tape to the underside of the UTH. It means setting the stat a little higher, but the stat settings don't really matter in the end...it's the thermoMeter or temp gun readings you want to follow. :)

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I could cut my support emails in half with that statement. :D Ha! I don't normally recommend putting the probe directly on the uth because many people panic seeing the temp swings that happen when you do that. BUT.. if you understand that the swings aren't directly happening to the animal and realize you will have to modify your temp settings on the stat you can get some great results. The other method is to put the probe in the cage which gives it a little isolation and allows less temp fluxaution on the thermostats display. It will still have its swings initially too but will regulate within a hour.

I am not totally sold on the foil tape idea. :) One side of me says it will be great for evening out the temp produced from the uth but the other side worries about it aiding in a electrical fire. The reason I say that is I have seen a couple of examples in person of flexwatt that overtime degraded and burnt up some of the cross strips. In those cases the heat tape continues to work but lost those strips. Aluminum foil tape could still conduct electricity but could be too thin to handle the current and possibly heat up and short other areas or catch fire. Its quite possible the current wouldn't be enough to trip a fuse. I'm not saying it will do this but is just a thought of mine. Now I would feel a little better if it was a zoomed mat instead of flexwatt as they are covered with a thicker plastic layer. A little extra protection.

Flexwatt or heat cable with a GOOD thermostat (I use Herpstats, they're as good or better than Helix, and cost less).

The thermostat is more important than the heat source, IMO.

I found the same thing happening with my heat lamp, it was sucking up all the humidity!!! Poke holes in foil and place heat lamp on top of it. Works like a charm, my humidity went up 20%!!!! it also stopped my terrarium from getting too hot. Alto recomend heat pad under hot side of your tank, just make sure theres no direct contact to your snake.

I answered the poll yes, but with a condition...I definitely think what kind of UTH used plays a very big part...just as much as a quality thermostat.

I've tried Zoo Med UTH's in the past, and would advise you (or anyone) to avoid them (or similar stick on ones) like the plague...I had four of them, same size/wattage, installed in the exact same way on identical cages, plugged into the same thermostat, and the only one that heated to the proper temp, was the one with the thermostat probe...the others were way off, one going waaaaaay over 100F, the others were under 90F, and one was only in the low 70's, basically the room temp...:mad:

I currently use Ultratherm heat mats, from the Beanfarm.com, and I can't say enough good things about these UTH's...

I have the 11" X 23" or 11 X 28" size on all my plastic boa cages, I attach them with foil tape, underneath the cages, and then put a piece of Reflectix insulation over them, to help push the heat up into the cage, and keep it from escaping into the room...(the cage is upside down in these pics...)

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...rojects057.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...rojects054.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...rojects056.jpg

Plastic on these cages is 1/4" thick, with 6 to eight layers of newspaper as bedding, and the heat gets through just fine...

And the foil tape is the only thing sticking the mat to the cage...if I ever need to remove or reposition the mat, I can do it safely (not so with the Zoo Med mats, which are ruined and dangerous if you peel them off)

The cage that has the thermostat probe, I just tape the probe in the middle of one side of the mat, has worked great, even with 6 mats on one thermostat the temps of each mat stay where they should be...

I use a Ranco on/off thermostat...was pretty expensive, but these thermostats are quality industrial ones...I feel really safe using them.

Hope this helps...

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Originally Posted by aj.gladding

I found the same thing happening with my heat lamp, it was sucking up all the humidity!!! Poke holes in foil and place heat lamp on top of it. Works like a charm, my humidity went up 20%!!!! it also stopped my terrarium from getting too hot. Alto recomend heat pad under hot side of your tank, just make sure theres no direct contact to your snake.

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never though of that. i'm going to try it later. good idea.:gj:

do ultratherm's get warm enough? I see they are made to operate at 95 degrees, just wondering if there is a ever a problem in rooms that are generally of cooler temperatures

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Originally Posted by Argentra

Yes they can get really hot and cook a snake... IF they are NOT used with a thermostat or dimmer at least!!
The Thermostat to control the output of heating devices is the MOST important piece of snake keeping equipment there is!

You should always try to go with belly heat (aka under the enclosure heat sources such as UTH pads and Flexwatt heat tape) for most snakes since they naturally get their warmth from surfaces... not from ambient air or sunlight except in very few cases. UTHs are great when used properly with a controller. Your friend obviously never used a thermostat, had a UTH burn out, and swore off them without even trying to control them.
The instructions on most pads are out of date and don't even consider regulation methods. :)

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I beg to differ.
I use RHPs and they work just like the sun...they heat surfaces which then release heat into the atmosphere. This way, you get overhead AND belly heat. I have a 24" high cage, which with the RHP creates a hot spot of 90F on a shelf and the floor is about 82-84.
My problem with belly heat is that when it's used with loose substrates the amount of substrate can drastically change the temperature; i.e., when substrate is moved an inch above the rest of the substrate the temperature can decrease by many degrees. You don't have this problem with RHPs.

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Originally Posted by Smith285

do ultratherm's get warm enough? I see they are made to operate at 95 degrees, just wondering if there is a ever a problem in rooms that are generally of cooler temperatures

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I was looking at these, but I found a place that sells prewired flexwatt for half as much and I went for that. Since my basement is in the mid sixties, I was afraid that the Ultratherm wouldn't be strong enough for a ball python.

What would you guys suggest for a reliable, cheap thermostat? I have a rheostat right now and was thinking about upgrading, but a nice helix one costs twice as much as the snakes it would be heating (all together!).

What specific type of UTH would you use with the tub type enclosure?

For me, the best ones are Ultra Therms. These mats originated in Scotland, I believe, but are also sold in the states as T Rex Cobra. They rarely overheat. I still use a thermostat anyway, though.

RBI has them for the best prices I think.

I am a new owner to a ball python. I have only had it for less then a week. I was told to set up my tank with a hide on the warm side and a hide on the cool side so the snake can move to one or the other depending on the temp it wants to be at. I only ever notice it in the cool hide. IS it just taking the one hide because it is new to the tank and could be scared to venture out yet? Or could it just be there becuase it wants to be that temp? I just want to be sure it is at the temp it wants to be so it can be healthy.

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Originally Posted by bobberly1

I was looking at these, but I found a place that sells prewired flexwatt for half as much and I went for that. Since my basement is in the mid sixties, I was afraid that the Ultratherm wouldn't be strong enough for a ball python.

What would you guys suggest for a reliable, cheap thermostat? I have a rheostat right now and was thinking about upgrading, but a nice helix one costs twice as much as the snakes it would be heating (all together!).

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BAH 1000 from Big Apple has worked for me, but you will still need to use an Acurite to monitor temps, as the temps on the t-stat dial are not always correct. Zoo Med's Repti Temp 500R can be found for 20-25$ dollars verses 40-45$ for Big Apple it just does not have temps listed on control, which does not matter because the BAH still needs to be adjusted according to your thermometer.

I have nine of the two total. If you are breeding, or brumating I would recommend a proportional like Helix. If not the fluctuations of an on off t-stat has worked for all my snakes.

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Originally Posted by van_garret2000

I am a new owner to a ball python. I have only had it for less then a week. I was told to set up my tank with a hide on the warm side and a hide on the cool side so the snake can move to one or the other depending on the temp it wants to be at. I only ever notice it in the cool hide. IS it just taking the one hide because it is new to the tank and could be scared to venture out yet? Or could it just be there becuase it wants to be that temp? I just want to be sure it is at the temp it wants to be so it can be healthy.

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If both hides are the same, your temps are correct on each side and the humidity is the same on both sides, I would not worry.

BOth hides are different. One is rock like the other is just black plastic. He is always in the plastic one.

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Originally Posted by van_garret2000

BOth hides are different. One is rock like the other is just black plastic. He is always in the plastic one.

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I wouldn't do this just yet (wait a few weeks), but as an experiment you could try switching the two hides and see what his preference is.

How are you controlling the UTH?

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

I wouldn't do this just yet (wait a few weeks), but as an experiment you could try switching the two hides and see what his preference is.

How are you controlling the UTH?

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You could try this, or you could try identical cardboard boxes, that are a snug fit. Cost no money and both are identical. My hides are different, and my BP will stay for days at times in either one. Other days he moves back and forth. If your temps are correct, he should be fine. By trying two identical free hides, you can eliminate temps as a problem.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

I wouldn't do this just yet (wait a few weeks), but as an experiment you could try switching the two hides and see what his preference is.

How are you controlling the UTH?

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WHat wouldn't you do jsut yet?

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Originally Posted by van_garret2000

WHat wouldn't you do jsut yet?

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the experiment I mentioned.

What are you controlling your UTH with? :confused:

Dito "what are you controlling your uth with? What are the temps and humidity? What are you measuring temps with, and how?

people stop voting and let this thing die already....

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

people stop voting and let this thing die already....

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why?

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Originally Posted by nixer

why?

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because all threads must come to an end. voting just bumps it to the top of the pile.

i think the pole has accomplished its purpose in seeing what the majority of us use.

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

because all threads must come to an end. voting just bumps it to the top of the pile.

i think the pole has accomplished its purpose in seeing what the majority of us use.

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It doesn't matter, people are still going to look at the thread and vote. You don't need to tell a thread to "die". It will happen eventually.

I use a UTH currently with my boa, but will use the flexwatt when I invest in a rack system for my ball pythons.

My UTH is spliced and hooked on a dimmer switch and also plugged into a surge protector. I have a dual probe thermometer on the hot & cold side.

I will be getting a thermostat for the rack system to be used with the flexwatt.

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Originally Posted by JeffJ

people stop voting and let this thing die already....

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Jeff, please keep in mind that you've been here on the Forum for 12 whole days. Some things are just the way they are...know what I mean.

I use Exo-terra UTH's and Ranco t-stats. I have the t-stat probe between the UTH and tank bottom. Haven't had any problems yet. Even though the Exo-terras can be stuck on, I don't. I only need to use a lamp in the winter...

i use 2 10-20 gal. UTH's wit a reg. dimmer from walmart...my temp in my hot spot never goes higher than 93...might be cuz of the reptibark tho...stuff eats heat up

I have 2 under my tank. One is @ 90 and the onther is at 80... Keeps my enclosure at the perfect temp with the dimmers... Would not change anything..:D
I give it 2 thumbs up..:rolleye2:

i use zoo med undertank heaters there the best :)

ok, here is my take on this. Really great discussion. I am new, but have a lot of snakes. I am learning really quickly. All my snakes are in racks now, I had a girl get really burned bad last spring. I had no regulation on the tank UTH, didnt even know it existed. My girl is OK, she was about dead (I was out had somebody feeding) and have nursed her back, she will never be pretty, but she is eating voraciously now.

My friend did not heed my warnings, and now has a burned snake too. IF USING UTH IN A GLASS TANK BE CAREFUL. IDK what to do, read elsewhere, i just dont do it anymore.

That is all I know

I keep telling folks, a thermostat is the most important piece of equipment you need to keep reptiles. So many people try to do without it, and it's the first thing that should purchased.