Attempt 1:Failure

Well today was the day to feed my bp for the first time and she seemed to be pretty relaxed she was not hiding in the hide anymore and was wandering about the viv.So i thawed out a mouse and offered it to her and she struck and hung on constricting the mouse.BUT after she constricted it for a min or so she LET GO!!!! I was like NOOOOOOOOO :tears:

My temps are right and my humidity is great nothing is wrong it seems can there be a reason to this ? She doesn't seem stressed anymore though she does go into strike position whenever i open the viv for maintenance.

Any tips? i will try again tomorrow and hopefully she will eat i mean she grabbed it and held it !! Though the mouses guts started to come out when she was squeezing it ewww!!!

Any Help?

Do not try to feed her again tomorrow. Offering food daily is going to make her less likely to eat and more stressed. Wait 4 or 5 days and try again.

There's no reason the mouse's guts needed to spew out like that. Sounds like it was overheated most likely or had been refrozen before. They don't usually explode if handled properly. How big is your snake and what f/t prey are you feeding?

Once your snake grabbed and constricted you needed to move away from the area. They will sometimes let go to tongue flick over the prey or check the area to make sure they are safe before they settle in to eat. You hanging around can make your snake see you as a looming predator and they will break off the feed and retreat to their hide.

Next time you try feeding, the second your snake grabs the prey item off the tongs, quietly close the enclosure and leave the area. Once your snake is eating well, growing and has fully settled in you can hang around and watch a feeding (some snakes however will never eat even when they are bigger if you stick around).

Ok i gotcha should i wait to handle her or can i handle her tomorrow or so? I really want her to get used to me. My snake is 9 months old and im feeding her medium mice.When i tried to close the glass sliding door thats when she let go.Im confused!!:(

Okay first things first, Chuck. You need to think like a snake here. This snake is fairly young. She's just come into your home recently, a home with new smells, new routines, new vibrations, etc. She doesn't have the mental capacity to understand these changes. She's a creature driven by instincts and the greatest of those is simply to survive. Part of that survival instinct is also to feed but if she's stressed, she'll pass on that for now.

Handling stresses these snakes. They aren't domesticated or tame pets even if they are hatched in captivity from captive snakes. They can get used to us and learn to tolerate our handling but I truly don't believe they can ever be like our pet dog or cat in that they seek or want handling from us. Think of handling like a gift the snake allows you. For now that gift isn't one you should be seeking from this young, stressed non-eater.

Focus on the basics. Make sure your enclosure is correct and appropriate for a ball python of this age/size. Make sure the room you keep this snake in is quiet and has low traffic. Do not handle the snake or bother it unduly. Don't allow others to constantly bug at the snake or it's enclosure. Don't constantly push food at it. Allow this shy, young snake to start to feel at home in it's new home. Basically leave it be and let it settle in for the next 5 days or so (that's dependent of course on whether she's currently set up properly).

To help you more it would be helpful to know more about this snake and it's home and your routines.

Where did you get this snake from?
How long have you had this snake?
Describe in detail the housing this snake lives in (size, substrate, hides provided, heating source, temps and humidity and how you measure those as well as where the enclosure is located in your home - pictures help here).
What have you tried to feed and how often?
What information do you have about this snakes routines prior to you purchasing it? (things like when it fed, what it ate, how often it ate, etc.)

Refusing to eat, Chuck, isn't a problem. It's a symptom or a sign of a problem or set of problems. Let's try to figure out what those problems are and hopefully get your snake eating and you feeling a bit better about the situation.

Dude.. settle down, you're making ME tired.

Leave HER ALONE. For AT LEAST TWO weeks, preferably THREE weeks. (i'm not yelling, this is emphasis, since you don't seem to be listening to anything anyone is telling you).

Leave her ALONE. COMPLETELY. Do NOT HANDLE, or TOUCH, or POKE, or PROD, or GAWK at her. Let her BE.

You JUST recently, like 2 days ago, moved her to a new tank.. It's likely too big, and your temperatures/humidity are likely off. It's not surprising she's striking out of fear and trying to defend herself. She's NOT HUNGRY. LEAVE HER ALONE.

Get your temps up to 92-94 hot side, 82-84 cool side, 24/7, NO NIGHT DROP. 50-60% humidity. Then leave her alone at the proper temps for a solid week, ONLY CHANGE WATER. NO TOUCHING THE SNAKE AT ALL.

THEN try to feed her when it's dark. Thaw mouse on top of tank, warm it up REALLY well, and then offer.

Ok first things first SatanicIntention I HAVEN'T been DISTURBING her and i've had her for A WEEK now plus my temp is PERFECT.


Ok thanks for the info franky her are the answers to your questions.

Where did you get this snake from?

A reptile shop near me.

How long have you had this snake?

1 Week Today.

Describe in detail the housing this snake lives in (size, substrate, hides provided, heating source, temps and humidity and how you measure those as well as where the enclosure is located in your home - pictures help here).

Ok the viv was too big for her (i thought i was going to get a adult BP so i split the viv to make it about 1 foot 20 inches.I am using aspen for substrate and the temps are 92 F on warm and 81F on cool.The heating source is a UTH with a bulb for extra heat if i need it and my humidity is 60-70 but she shed yesterday so it is 50-60 now.The viv is in my room it is very quiet i also have my corn in the same room but across the room.

What have you tried to feed and how often?

I tried to feed her 1 medium mouse every 7 days.


What information do you have about this snakes routines prior to you purchasing it? (things like when it fed, what it ate, how often it ate, etc.)


It ate every friday forzen thawed mice.



I am not a stupid person SatanicIntention stop talking to me like i am a child i have waited a week then i fed her.

Dude... seriously? We just went over this yesterday. And before that I also read your other thread that had the same exact sentiments. Why are you still going down this road when MANY people are telling you the same thing over and over?


Leave her alone for 2 weeks, let her acclimate to her new surroundings before you try and feed her.
Double check your humidity and temps with a good digital thermometer.

Then hurry up and wait. Snakes take a long time to settle in, their bodies are on different clocks than us.

What takes us a day to chill out from, takes them weeks.

Be patient!!!!

I was told 1 week :(:( now 3 ?


Ok i am really confused now i only want what is best for my ball python and im only asking loads of questions becuase i want her to live a happy healthy life.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chuck1289

I was told 1 week :(:( now 3 ?


Ok i am really confused now i only want what is best for my ball python and im only asking loads of questions becuase i want her to live a happy healthy life.

---

The main point is to relax and give her time to herself.

1-2 or even 3 weeks is a guideline. Not a steadfast rule. If your snake still refused to eat after 1 week of being left alone, leave her completely alone for another 1 week. If she still did not eat, leave her alone for 1 more week. It's a measure to ensure she settles down completely.

I personally would have left her completely alone for 2 weeks before attempting a feed. I like to give all my snakes a nice long settle in period.

Ok thanks i'll try to not post anymore haha:gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chuck1289

Ok thanks i'll try to not post anymore haha:gj:

---

It's not that we don't want you to post questions, but I had really thought in your last thread we had come to the conclusion that leaving her be to acclimate for a while was the thing to do.

Then reading this new post.... makes me wonder if I had dreamed it all. :rolleye2:

Just remember that we do want to help you take the best care of your animal! :gj:

Ok i will completely blank her out of my mind for another week then i'll feed her.


thanks.

Just a small edit im leaving the computer for 20 mins but i'll be back then to read your replies!!!

I know i've been a fool but hey you should of seen the amount of topics i made on the cornsnake forums when i got my corn !!

Okay now let's just take this step by step Chuck. Firstly no one here is trying to do anything but help you to care for that snake and has done so in many threads. We'll continue to try and help you but you must relax and take in what we are telling you.

Let's start....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chuck1289

Ok first things first SatanicIntention I HAVEN'T been DISTURBING her and i've had her for A WEEK now plus my temp is PERFECT.

---

Becky (SatanicIntention) is quite right in that you are disturbing this snake. You just don't know enough about ball pythons to know that you are. You've had this snake 1 week. You've had to change enclosures, mess with her, tried to feed, etc. This is disturbing a snake. Even when we do something for their own good, it can stress and upset them. Now that you know this, you can more easily understand what the members here are telling you is true.

Quote:

---

Where did you get this snake from?

A reptile shop near me.

---

I suspected as much. Pet store snakes, unless purchased from the very rare, very good speciality reptile shops tend to have issues. If she's truly 9 months old then she lived her life in a pet store experience which did not do her a bit of good unfortunately. You will have to work to overcome that poor start. You may also want to book an appointment with a reptile experienced vet to have her looked over and a fecal float done as a lot of pet store snakes have parasite issues that can impact on their willingness to feed.

Quote:

---

How long have you had this snake?

1 Week Today.

---

At the 1 week mark you should barely be interacting with this snake. Due to the issues with her housing, etc. you've had to disturb her which means you need to reset that clock. If you just moved her to another viv then she's back to day 1 on the settling in clock. Anytime you make any major change in these snake's lives you need to give them a week or so to accept that change.

Quote:

---

Describe in detail the housing this snake lives in (size, substrate, hides provided, heating source, temps and humidity and how you measure those as well as where the enclosure is located in your home - pictures help here).

Ok the viv was too big for her (i thought i was going to get a adult BP so i split the viv to make it about 1 foot 20 inches.I am using aspen for substrate and the temps are 92 F on warm and 81F on cool.The heating source is a UTH with a bulb for extra heat if i need it and my humidity is 60-70 but she shed yesterday so it is 50-60 now.The viv is in my room it is very quiet i also have my corn in the same room but across the room.

---

Okay so in the week you've had her she's had a home change AND a shed cycle. Again, loads of stress on her. Reset that clock, Chuck. Also are you monitoring those temps and humidity digitally or by one of those dial stick on jobbies that the pet stores sell?

Quote:

---

What have you tried to feed and how often?

I tried to feed her 1 medium mouse every 7 days.

---

Since you've only had her about 7 days you would have tried just that once. She refused. I'd expect her to refuse. Let her settle into her new home for another 7 days and try again.

Quote:

---

What information do you have about this snakes routines prior to you purchasing it? (things like when it fed, what it ate, how often it ate, etc.)


It ate every friday forzen thawed mice.

---

Firstly, every pet store in the world always sells perfectly healthy snakes that always eat like clockwork. In most cases this is pure bull. Even if she has eaten like a champ from them, this is a whole new world for her and she's reacting like a lot of bp's do by refusing to eat and acting very stressed out by striking and so forth. In other words, Chuck, she's acting pretty much as expected so no need to worry there.

Quote:

---

I am not a stupid person SatanicIntention stop talking to me like i am a child i have waited a week then i fed her.

---

Becky is NOT talking to you like you are stupid. Put your ego aside, Chuck. Becky is trying to get you to see that you must calm down, relax and listen to the advice you have been given in multiple threads.

These snakes are slow to adjust and require massive amounts of patience. If you don't have any now, you're about to get some believe me or you won't enjoy keeping a ball python and the snake won't do well for you.

Work the problems, step back and adjust your husbandry habits with a view to what is right for your snake, not what makes you feel best. I'm sure you can do this and you and your snake will do just fine. Loads of others have faced these issues and gone on to be excellent snake keepers with beautifully healthy snakes. :)

My husbandry is fine so don't worry and she was not from a pet shop but from a specialist reptile shop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chuck1289

My husbandry is fine so don't worry and she was not from a pet shop but from a specialist reptile shop.

---

Chuck,

Not all reptile shops take care of their animals. FankyKeno did specify that as well. You didn't answer the question of what type of thermometer you are using, those stick on ones are crap. They don't work that's why people are asking you if that's what your using. your temps could be WAY off if that's indeed what you are using.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chuck1289

My husbandry is fine so don't worry and she was not from a pet shop but from a specialist reptile shop.

---

Chuck, when we mean husbandry, we mean not just a few quick temps, but the whole of it. I know you have gone over it before, but in reality your BP is still very young, and keeping her in the size enclosure is quite a step up from what people usually keep their snakes in. I would even go so far to claim that she could do very well in a 10 gallon tank! ;)

What you've described is a "1 foot 20 inches". Is that on one side? Or is it 1 ' x 20 ". Meaning one side is 1 foot, the other side is 20 inches? I'm just asking for clarification.

My guess is, that animal could do very well with 12" x 6" houseing situation. Yes, tiny! These animals feel very good and snug when literally cramped. 12" x 20" is a little on the large side for a young snake, and I'm going out on a limb to say she must be around 300 grams coming from a pet store situation.

I personally give each animal a tub based on eating habits and weight. If an animal refuses to eat when moved up in tub size, they get to stay in the smaller one until they've put on more size.

hatchling - 200 grams: 6 qt tub.
200-800 grams: 12 qt tub
800+ grams: 28 qt tub


To compensate for the size, have you crumpled any newspaper to fill up the air space? They really do like to feel something touching them on all sides while they move about. :gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chuck1289

she was not from a pet shop but from a specialist reptile shop.

---

so she was from a pet shop... ;)

Hey Chuck.
I'm sure from your perspective everyone seems to be ganging up on you. This is certainly not the case. Lots of information is being handed to you and I bet its overwhelming. Is there anything that is conflicting to what the shop owners told you? If so, that might be step one to your confusion. Listen to people here, it's of course hard not to take offense to things on any forum because you are just reading a screen and are not seeing anyone's emotion behind it. Every person here wants you to have the healthiest, relaxed, and happy BP. They also want you to understand everything that a BP needs. In the end it's actually not that bad or hard and everything is pretty basic. Patience is what everyone is trying to give you. Imagine having your adult female lay eggs and you can't touch them for almost 2 months....gah! I would shoot myself:P.

Point of this is, just sit back and think from your BP's perspective. You just want to sleep for a week or two and then be ready to go. Don't mess with it's enclosure just make sure it has fresh water for now.

P.S.-You are doing a great job by just soaking in everyone's comment's and we've had people on here get super offended and left the forum. Please stick around! We want another success story!

Ok here we go i will answer all the questions here.

By 1 foot 20 inches i mean the lenght of the viv would be cut down to that from 3 foot.

I do not feel like im being ganged up on the more opinions the better!! The thermometer and hydrometer is a digital one by the way.Could someone post a pic of the tub you would keep my BP in?A pic of my BP is available in my images just check that and you can see my corn looking very cute hehe.

I haven't got much money to spend at the moment but i do have alot of tubs .... Plus i can save the 3 foot viv till she gets older but could i just half the 3 foot viv too make it more confortable to her? My snake is 9 months old by the way.


I in no way am offended by anything by the way i like all the new ideas im getting off you guys and i understand that you just want the best for my BP Thanks!

Ok guys im going to bed but i'll check this thread tomorrow morning you need to tell me to..

A:Buy a Plastic tub and turn it into a small viv then move her into the 3 foot when she is older...


B: use wood or something to restrict 1 half of the viv.


If i got a plastic tub how big should it be ? I don't know her weight because i can't handle her at the moment so i can't weigh her etc.. She is 9 months and on medium to large mice!

I'll try to help without adding more confusion.

When my bp was 9 months old, I kept her in a 32q sterilite container. It was a little bit too big for her size, so I took the advice of everyone here and I bought her the smallest hides she could squeeze into. If I remember correctly, they were actually black, plastic mashed potato bowls. :giggle: In addition to that, I bought a ton of fake plants from Wal-Mart and put them EVERYWHERE. You could barely see her when she moved around. Here's a photo:http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...e040508001.jpg

Then I also added some crumpled up newspaper, similar to this:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c1.../snakes005.jpg

So you can see her tub was totally packed FULL. :oops:

Mine was also hesitant to eat with me around. She abandoned a dinner once because I wouldn't leave her alone. I learned pretty quick that they like peace and quiet. Nowadays, she doesn't mind if I sit and watch her eat. But it took a long time to get to that point. For now, try to forget she's there unless she needs something (water, a cleaning, food, etc.) In the wild, they live in tiny underground burrows. Things are very cramped, very dark, and very quiet. We should strive to recreate that atmosphere for them.

Hope that helped at least a little.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chuck1289

...If i got a plastic tub how big should it be ? I don't know her weight because i can't handle her at the moment so i can't weigh her etc.. She is 9 months and on medium to large mice!

---

Connie answered this here:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

....I personally give each animal a tub based on eating habits and weight. If an animal refuses to eat when moved up in tub size, they get to stay in the smaller one until they've put on more size.

hatchling - 200 grams: 6 qt tub.
200-800 grams: 12 qt tub
800+ grams: 28 qt tub

---

I would start yours in a 12qt or 16 qt. with 2 hides and a water bowl. Looking for really tight accommodations so the snake feels really secure (cramped).

It sounds like your mouse was thawed too quickly or in water that was too hot; hence, the guts. Try thawing the mouse at room temp right next to the snake's tub. If the snake is really reluctant, you might try live. Whichever you try, you'll need to wait a week or two for her to get settled in again.

Remember, if you do the tub set-up, you'll be re-starting the clock for another 2-week period prior to an attempt at feeding.

Good luck. Have patience. Keep an open mind... :)

I have medium sized exo terra hides (search google for an image) She can barely fit into that hide maybe he as lying to me and she is older .... I'm going to half her viv and try again feeding her in a week if she doesn't eat then i will have to move her into a tub.The only problem is i don't think the hides she tightly fits into now will fit into a small tub! Anyhow thanks for all the info guys you have been a great help!!

UPDATE: I purchased a sheet of acrylic plastic today and i have fit it in the viv so now the viv is only 1 foot 12 inches !! Now i play the waiting game i will update next week to tell you whether she ate or not.

I'm just curious about the viv size as your numbers are confusing me... 1 foot 20 inches would be equal to 2 feet, 8 inches... If you are starting off with a 3 foot long viv, that amounts to sectioning off 4 inches that your bp can't access, which is pretty pointless IMO... Your final number, 1 foot 12 inches would be equal to 2 feet, which is more than half the original size of the enclosure, which still may be too large for her. I would say that whatever size you have made the enclosure now, just leave it for a week and see what happens. I am just VERY confused after reading your thread...

lol oops i meant.... The viv will be 18 inches which is 1 foot 6 inches i think sorry i was in a rush to get out earlier haha.