People who just like to cause issues

I did something stupid and added my opinion on a vegetarian/vegan forum about feeding companion animals vegetarian/vegan diets. I am against it, of course. I am into the whole "feeding your pet what it is designed to eat." thing. I was talking about my ferrets and how one of them is already on a raw/whole prey diet and the others will be switched over soon.

This guy comes on there and says "I have a pet hawk. I was looking for a humanely raised ferret to feed him. Would you be willing to give yours over for a good cause?"

That is unnecessary and I tried to not let it upset me. I just really hate these people. Yes, I feed my ferret mice. Yes, there are people who keep mice as pets and they might be a little upset about the idea of their pet's species being used as food for another animal. But did I approach them jokingly to ask them for their pets as food for my ferret, no. I simply said what my ferret eats.

ARg! I just really hate these kinds of people. He is, of course, all for vegan diets for dogs. Dogs can survive on a vegan diet, but they do not thrive on it. Vegetarian diets for cats are even worse on the animal.

I am vegetarian, trying to go vegan and possibly raw, but I have a responsibility to my animals to provide them with the best possible diet, and so that is what they get. I don't try and make my fur/scale babies fit to my lifestyle because it makes me feel better about myself. If my animals eat meat naturally, then that is what they get, period. Rah!

I'm with you 100%. I feed my dogs raw... I feed my snakes live or frozen/thawed depending on the snake and it's needs/desires. I feed my cats a balanced diet for them.

I feed myself raw. It's my choice to feed everyone what they need. Even my chameleon gets live silkworms... it's in her best interest.

Good for you for being who you are and caring about your pets!!!

If you have any good websites on the raw diet, I would love to look at them. I'm very interested in going raw. I am also interested in providing a raw diet for my cats and dog. It probably isn't that different from a raw diet for ferrets, but I'm sure the nutritional requirements are different so I would need to know about that before doing anything.

well there's my forum:

http://www.timelessspirit.com/forum

and here's another: (they are very strict on what can be posted and will often remove your post without letting you know... if they don't agree with what is said... so be prepared if you choose to post here)

http://www.rawfoodtalk.com/index.php

Thanks for the links. I saw the recipe for raw cream of wheat and that makes me happy. Cream of wheat is one of my favorite breakfast foods and I was wondering what I would do about that. I'll have to give that a try.

The guy responded to my reply to him by saying he didn't have a hawk and he was just pointing out my indifference to those animals I consider "feeder" animals. I then told him my rats are treated as pets first and foremost. Even those destined to be feeders.

Blech I hate when people think cats can be vegetarians.

NOOOO!
If you want your cat to go blind then sure, keep feeding it vegetables.

Ok, here is my scientific fight for this type of thing.
None of the pictures are mine.

Herbivores
Animals such as deer, cows, gazelles, sheep, ext. are all herbivores. Herbivores have a different digestive system than omnivores and carnivores (shocking I know!).

http://www.wachfox57.thesportsmansho...yanimation.gif

Here is an anatomical picture of a deer which will represent the herbivores. Pay close attention to the small intestine as it is the important part about this.

Omnivores
Animals such as humans, gorillas, monkeys, ext. are all omnivores.
Their digestive system is also different.

http://content.revolutionhealth.com/...s/nr551448.jpg


Carnivores
Animals such as dogs, cats, wolves, lions, tigers, ext. are all carnivores. Same thing here, theres a difference.

http://z.hubpages.com/u/96991_f520.jpg

Ok now to the point of this whole thing.
Look back at the small intestines in each of the pictures and notice this:
Herbivores have very long small intestines. This is because, vegetables take much longer to digest and extract nutrients from than meat does.
Omnivores have medium-long small intestines. This gives them the capability to still properly digest fruit and vegetables as a staple diet, and occasional meats.
Carnivores have very short small intestines. Meat does not take very long to digest in the system and if the digestive system is too long (like a herbivores) the meat will actually rot inside the small intestines, which is also why humans become rather gassy after eating large amounts of meat. ;]

When you try to put vegetables in a carnivores system, they are unable to derive the proper nutrients that they need from the food, therefore you are slowly killing them nutritionally. Even if you provide large protein diets, the animal is only digesting enough to survive an unhealthy lifestyle as well as it severely depletes the health of the overall animal and the expected lifespan.
Cats especially are very prone to vitamin deficiencies, and when attempted to be put on a vegetarian diet, could easily go blind due to lack of nutrition.

That is all.

A-freakin-men.

I was once told by a "wise man" to put my fingers in my mouth and touch the pointy teeth on the top and bottom. Those are called K9s he said. They're for tearing at meat. You are SUPPOSED to eat meat. Now reach back further. Those are called molars. They're for grinding down vegetables. You are SUPPOSED to eat vegetables.

And critters are the same way.

I then came up with my own little Proverb:

If the snake pitied the mouse, the snake would die.
If the snake pitied the hawk, the snake would die.

It means whatever the heck you want it to mean, lol.

I know what you are talking about! I haven't touched meat for 5-6 years, but I know that is a choice I MAKE - not something I can make for my pets (I can make the choice to feed them healthy options, but not to change what they need to be healthy), I want them to eat what is natural to them.

And people who put cats on vegan diets are insane, most vegan cat foods will tell you that you need to add a meat derived supplement but there is one company I was reading about that tells people not to and a lot of cats on their food end up with UTIs and getting sick. I ended up spending 3-4 hours one night reading about it because it made me so angry!

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Originally Posted by bait4snake

I then came up with my own little Proverb:

If the snake pitied the mouse, the snake would die.
If the snake pitied the hawk, the snake would die.

It means whatever the heck you want it to mean, lol.

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Hey that's pretty good! :D

This idea of putting carnivore pets (ferrets, cats, dogs) onto a "raw" diet is intriguing to me, I have never heard about it before. Jay_bunny, what do your ferrets eat? And what would you feed to a cat or a dog on a raw [carnivorous] diet? I imagine they have to have some sort of variety in prey items.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

This guy comes on there and says "I have a pet hawk. I was looking for a humanely raised ferret to feed him. Would you be willing to give yours over for a good cause?"

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I would have responded that I am sure there are people raising ferrets as feeders for hawks, but that rats and rabbits and possibly guinea pigs are still the most likely feeding source for hawks because of the feeders quick growth and reproduction.

I would have also told him that there are large companies that strive to provided humanely treated and euthanized animals as feeders.


[back on topic]
It IS possible to keep animals as pets and feeders for heaven's sake! How many people do it here alone? I know for sure that I am one of them!

It's the circle of life... Some people feel the need to judge no matter what.

Ah dumb humans...
Anyways, I find it really respectable that although you decide to live a certain lifestyle you don't feel the need to force it on everything with an iron fist. Seriously, I think it's great that you can separate your life choices/ideologies (meaning i don't know if you're vegetarian because you feel healthier or because it's because of beliefs you hold) from what your animals need and are willing to feed them what you feel they'd be healthiest on and what they'd thrive best on.

btw, can you tell about your ferrets diet? Never had ferrets, don't know much about them, but I'm quite curious.

Do I smell barbecue? Please pass the steak sausce!!!

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

This guy comes on there and says "I have a pet hawk. I was looking for a humanely raised ferret to feed him. Would you be willing to give yours over for a good cause?"

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That's cruel. I have a snake that eats rabbits. There are people who post on these forums who have rabbits as pets. I even really enjoy eating rabbit myself.

But I would NEVER say "hey gimme your pet to feed my pet" to them. :mad:

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Originally Posted by cassandra

That's cruel. I have a snake that eats rabbits. There are people who post on these forums who have rabbits as pets. I even really enjoy eating rabbit myself.

But I would NEVER say "hey gimme your pet to feed my pet" to them. :mad:

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I agree, that comment from him was rude and unnecessary. I love rabbits, but I know that I may have to feed rabbits to snakes at one point. (which I'll try to strive for frozen)
When I get my rats next season to start breeding, they will be my pets. :]

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Dogs can survive on a vegan diet, but they do not thrive on it. Vegetarian diets for cats are even worse on the animal.

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That reminds me of a futurama cartoon where they say they made the Lion into a vegetarian - and it shows the lion and he's coughing and all his hair is falling out.

I like and care for all animals, but Stan gets mice because that is what he eats. Thats nature.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cassandra

That's cruel. I have a snake that eats rabbits. There are people who post on these forums who have rabbits as pets. I even really enjoy eating rabbit myself.

But I would NEVER say "hey gimme your pet to feed my pet" to them. :mad:

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We have a little saying in our house (helps the younger kids differentiate between what critter is a pet and what one is a feeder).....

"Things with names don't eat other things with names." :)