3 legged ASF... creepy.

I was pulling ASFs to take to an expo today.

And as I was sexing juvies in my grow out tub, I noticed that one of them only has 3 legs... at first I thought it had been chewed off, but when I looked closer I could see the perfectly round belly, and the leg bones kicking from under the skin.

Creepy... :)

And when I got to the show I noticed that one of the rats I had taken had no ears... WTF?

Anyone else seen something similar. I have heard of the sort of *ratty* looking failure to thrive ASFs, but not of deformed ones.

I put babes in this tub from 4 different breeding groups, so I cannot (at this time locate where they came from. But all my ASFs are from an original 2.2 pairing I got, and I am uncertain as to their genetics.

Bruce

I'm more shocked that there is no pics here. hmph.

Thats weird. Any pictures?

I know... I will add the pics... I got home from the expo, and had to set up 4 new snakes, and then clean (to justify that yes, I can go an spend the rent on snakes, but we'll have a nice floors when evicted). :)

Also, I find they are so shifty that I need a second pair of hands to photo them... and I showed my partner the creepy 3 legged mutant, and as soon as it kicked it was game over.

"GET THAT FREAKY THING AWAY!!!"

As far as the earless ASF it is long gone... but with luck there may be one with a horn, or 9 testicles, or 2 tails in the bucket that I can photo tomorrow night.

Bruce

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Originally Posted by Loft Lizard

I know... I will add the pics... I got home from the expo, and had to set up 4 new snakes, and then clean (to justify that yes, I can go an spend the rent on snakes, but we'll have a nice floors when evicted). :)

Also, I find they are so shifty that I need a second pair of hands to photo them... and I showed my partner the creepy 3 legged mutant, and as soon as it kicked it was game over.

"GET THAT FREAKY THING AWAY!!!"

As far as the earless ASF it is long gone... but with luck there may be one with a horn, or 9 testicles, or 2 tails in the bucket that I can photo tomorrow night.

Bruce

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Nawww.. you sold the earless? Or fed it?
Earless sounds really cute for some reason!
I like having disabled pets.. not that I ever wanted them to be disabled in the first place, but it makes me feel special to take care of them.

Ahaha, silly genetics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loft Lizard

I was pulling ASFs to take to an expo today.

And as I was sexing juvies in my grow out tub, I noticed that one of them only has 3 legs... at first I thought it had been chewed off, but when I looked closer I could see the perfectly round belly, and the leg bones kicking from under the skin.

Creepy... :)

And when I got to the show I noticed that one of the rats I had taken had no ears... WTF?

Anyone else seen something similar. I have heard of the sort of *ratty* looking failure to thrive ASFs, but not of deformed ones.

I put babes in this tub from 4 different breeding groups, so I cannot (at this time locate where they came from. But all my ASFs are from an original 2.2 pairing I got, and I am uncertain as to their genetics.

Bruce

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that is the result of in breeding, which is ok but if you over due it it will cause mutations, week nervous systems and, it gets harder for them to fight infection and disease and eventually will couse them to die younger and not produce large litters..
and its hard not to in breed since most of the asf in ontario are from the same basic lines, but the only way to get none related rats is to do what i did and that buy them from new york i purchased my first 21 females and 7 males from pets plus in lockport, then another 21 females and 7 males from london reptiles here in st Catharines ON and mixed them up 1 male to 3 females and i separate the offspring into 2 groups which i call NYG#1 (New York Group #1) and ONG#1 (Ontario group #1) so when i do put new breeders in the tanks i take from the females from one and a male from another and put them together and so far i have great results. But now im up to NYG#1-4 and ONG#1-4. so im getting there but that all im gonna go.

What makes you think it is from imbreeding? heard of smaller sizes and smaller litters due to inbreeding, but nothing like this. when you breed anyting, sooner or later deformities will happen. I do not think these things are caused by imbreeding.

in inbreeding thats one of the biggest things is deformities, and problems within. rats are born with no tails, no ears, no eyes, missing appendages, no reproductive organs, and lots of other weird things. its the same as in humans or any other animals inbreeding causes problems. im not saying that these will arise right away, i may take many generations but eventually it will happen and it will result from inbreeding. if you you must ask your vet and he will clarify and vouch for what im saying. believe me i watch alot of discovery channel and animal planet...lol :banana:

Guess I am not buying that it is purely from inbreeding. But you never know. This has been my only litter that was off, so it could be stress that the female had during gestation, etc.

I have had alot of people tell me to feed him off, but I figure I will contact a few vet schools, vets, etc. and see if there is anything to learn from the little guy.

If it was just a missing leg I would have fed it off, but there is a full leg under the skin, so maybe a student vet can operate and learn... you never know.

Bruce

PS: I am going to get pics tonight, should be posted soon-ish.

If it's excessive inbreeding I would think you'd see more problems in future litters, loss of litters due to failure to thrive, weak offspring, etc.

If not then it's just like a birth defect. That simply just does happen randomly with any living creature that reproduces. Occasionally young are born that aren't like the others.

Jo, that avator really creeps me out... and I LIKE primates. :)

So here's the pics of Peggy... I know, it was a better name than Tripod I figured...

I took about 20, but crazy busy rat was hard to get a clean photo. The ones that didn't turn out were the ones where the leg isn't extended.

When not extended then you cannot even see it, Just a perfectly round little Juvie ASF AKA Bart Simpson belly.

Bruce

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...bum/pegleg.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...um/pegleg1.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...um/pegleg2.jpg

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

That simply just does happen randomly with any living creature that reproduces. Occasionally young are born that aren't like the others.

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hmmm.. that is exactly what my parents have been telling me for years....


LOL!

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Originally Posted by Loft Lizard

Jo, that avator really creeps me out... and I LIKE primates. :)

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It's eyes Bruce, it's eyes are watching youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. :rofl:

I think it's a baby slender loris. I thought it was just too freaky and had to be in my avatar collection. :)

As far as Peggy, I'm amazed the other ASF's don't go after her. A lot of times anything that's not in the norm gets taken out by the others but she must get around okay so they don't see her as anything different. She certainly looks in good shape and other than the freakish leg she seems quite fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcavana

hmmm.. that is exactly what my parents have been telling me for years....


LOL!

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:8: :rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

She certainly looks in good shape and other than the freakish leg she seems quite fine.

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She is fine actually. I was looking at her tonight and she is the oldest in the grow out tub as well (so now the biggest). She was the only one that I didn't feed off from that litter.

Even as far as her leg stub goes... it isn't sensitive, or inflamed, etc. She seems to do good, and I have a heck of a time finding her, as it isn't obvious when looking in.

But i have had good luck with my babes. I mentioned to you before that I keep 3 species of rodents in together and have never had an incident.

I pull the few holdbacks right around breeding age, and even if they start getting nippy with me, they never turn on each other, I can mix up the tub, add and subtract and reintroduce without incident.

Bruce

BTW... is the wee creepy thing a tamarin?

I'm of the school of thought that "it just happens," "freak accidents," and "random occurances."

I just had and ASF born with no tail (sadly, I just fed him off tonight).

In the rats (not asf) in the first year, I had a trio three headed baby (well, the body was one body and a lot of appendanges and I think the mother put it out of it's misery because the head was chewed off.)

I believe I still have the pics, but I don't want to derail the OP's topic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by broadude

I'm of the school of thought that "it just happens," "freak accidents," and "random occurances."

I just had and ASF born with no tail (sadly, I just fed him off tonight).

In the rats (not asf) in the first year, I had a trio three headed baby (well, the body was one body and a lot of appendanges and I think the mother put it out of it's misery because the head was chewed off.)

I believe I still have the pics, but I don't want to derail the OP's topic.

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I am not likely to come unhinged. :)

Feel free to post if you want.

We had a two headed cat when I was a kid... well, my cat Tillly had it, it died after a few hours, but we could trace it to an accident she'd had early in her pregnancy/gestation.

Bruce

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Originally Posted by Loft Lizard

BTW... is the wee creepy thing a tamarin?

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If memory serves it's a newborn/very young slow loris.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loft Lizard

I am not likely to come unhinged. :)

Feel free to post if you want.

We had a two headed cat when I was a kid... well, my cat Tillly had it, it died after a few hours, but we could trace it to an accident she'd had early in her pregnancy/gestation.

Bruce

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Ok!:) The pic was taken on notebook paper (this was in the days of 'sucky' pic taking skills).

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...MG_08601-1.jpg

Tried again under lower lighting:

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...MG_08581-1.jpg

It must be noted, that I have had only this one abnormality in the rat collection. At this time, I was using a variety of cat flea and tick products on the bedding. I have stopped that practice.

I have had only one abnormality in the ASF's so far (one born without a tail). It was subsequently fed off (sorry I didn't take pics).

If mother rats have a particularly hard time birthing, there can be losses in appendages while she has to assit herself in pulling them out. Or sometimes new mothers will be cleaning up the newborns and nibble away a foot here, arm there. It would look completely healed over in a few days, and as they grow you wouldn't notice anything much like you have with yours.

The ears I can't explain. Thats just something I would have kept to play with.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...FOUR-ears.html

Came across this today... kitty with 4 ears? Cute little buggar.

Bruce