She popped!!!!!!

Finally my one girl popped out 9 babies... 2 of which were still born.... Not too bad for her first litter... Should I leave the 2 still borns alone or take them out? I dont want to cause her to kill the rest of the babies...

I think the second girl is starting to show... so hopefully we have another litter in a weeks time! Its amazing how helpful shes being to the one who had the litter today...

Heres 2 quick pics I snapped...

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...9/dsc02093.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...9/dsc02094.jpg

Pull the dead ones. Watch the mother and the other adults though that they don't race over and bite you. They tend to be very protective of their young. I've never had an ASF female eat her litter but if you are concerned she's a nervous animal just toss in an empty small cardboard box with an entrance hole cut in and she'll move her litter into it if she wants. They don't seem to have the tendency to eat their litters like mice do - at least mine don't seem to.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Pull the dead ones. Watch the mother and the other adults though that they don't race over and bite you. They tend to be very protective of their young. I've never had an ASF female eat her litter but if you are concerned she's a nervous animal just toss in an empty small cardboard box with an entrance hole cut in and she'll move her litter into it if she wants. They don't seem to have the tendency to eat their litters like mice do - at least mine don't seem to.

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Whats funny is she gave birth inside her hide box (99 cents cereal bowl from walmart) and then moved them to the corner of the tank...

Thanks for the advice! :)

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Pull the dead ones. Watch the mother and the other adults though that they don't race over and bite you. They tend to be very protective of their young. I've never had an ASF female eat her litter but if you are concerned she's a nervous animal just toss in an empty small cardboard box with an entrance hole cut in and she'll move her litter into it if she wants. They don't seem to have the tendency to eat their litters like mice do - at least mine don't seem to.

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Interesting and something I was going to start a thread on. In 3 of my 6 colonies I have found multiple dead babies. Sometimes pinks, sometimes almost weans that have had their heads chewed off. I have never seen this in regular rats. Has anyone else had these problems? I give them a hide and I try to wean the babies as soon as possible (not sure if I'm doing that at the right time since they grow so slowly compared to reg rats). I am running 1.3 in all the colonies except one which is 1.5 (and has experienced no cannibalism).

If I wanted to add a 3rd female to this 1.2 group... is it too late?

Probally right?

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Originally Posted by JasonG

If I wanted to add a 3rd female to this 1.2 group... is it too late?

Probally right?

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Too late to add a new one to the tank. If you want a third female, just keep one of the female babies in the tank thru adulthood. She will breed with Dad without any issues.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Interesting and something I was going to start a thread on. In 3 of my 6 colonies I have found multiple dead babies. Sometimes pinks, sometimes almost weans that have had their heads chewed off. I have never seen this in regular rats. Has anyone else had these problems? I give them a hide and I try to wean the babies as soon as possible (not sure if I'm doing that at the right time since they grow so slowly compared to reg rats). I am running 1.3 in all the colonies except one which is 1.5 (and has experienced no cannibalism).

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I have never had a headless baby just laying around. with each birth there will normally be one or two babies that doesn't make it... either born dead, or the mom thinks its not healthy enough. they get eaten.

[QUOTE=frankykeno;850310]Pull the dead ones. QUOTE]

I disagree. It is gross I know but, leave the dead ones. They will get eaten. Very good for the momma. Plus going into the tank at that point is just asking for trouble (posssibly more dead babies)

Hmmm interesting. I don't see the difference though since my ASF's are used to my hands being in there every day to feed them (I don't use a feeder thing) so perhaps they just don't freak if I do a fast removal of a couple of stillborns. Other than trying to get in a nip at me, they really don't seem to care.

Not sure what to tell you Jamie. The only time I had that issue it was one specific female doing it but once she had her own litter to tend to she stopped. We were going to feed her off but wanted to wait till she delivered her litter. Once she had them though she stopped picking on babies so perhaps she was just confused by them until she had her own (she was the last of the quartet of females in her group to give birth for the first time).

That is odd Jamie. I wouldn't be so worried about pinks being eaten if it was just a few, but a few in many litters is something to take notice of. Pinks can sometimes be eaten because of nutrition value to the mother. Sometimes stress, but I wouldn't think your there messing around with them all day. The only thing I would think of is maybe space limitations... but that doesnt fit the bill for pinks being killed.

As to the weaners being eaten, my first guess is you may be weaning a bit late. Perhaps in their efforts to drive off the young males, fights break out and some are killed.

I wean all of my ASF's at 21 days, preferrably before the pregnant rat has another litter. I haven't lost any this way, and they all grow to a small adult size by the 2nd month of age for feeders.

Now I'm also terrible at estimating the size of my tubs compared to a 10 g tank, but I try to give them as much space as possible. Breeders are kept in 1.2 or 1.3 groups in my 54 qt tubs.

I don't know if that is any help, but I sure hope your females quit eating the babies!


Also, pull the still borns if mom hasn't touched them. They've begun to decay and are likely not going to be eaten. I usually never see any still borns in any of my animals litters unless i catch her in the act. By the time I come back hours later mom has usually cleaned up. If she missed one, I pull it for sanitation purposes. No one wants dead animals hanging around.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

That is odd Jamie. I wouldn't be so worried about pinks being eaten if it was just a few, but a few in many litters is something to take notice of. Pinks can sometimes be eaten because of nutrition value to the mother. Sometimes stress, but I wouldn't think your there messing around with them all day. The only thing I would think of is space limitations.

As to the weaners being eaten, my first guess is you may be weaning a bit late. Perhaps in their efforts to drive off the young males, fights break out and some are killed.

I wean all of my ASF's at 21 days, preferrably before the pregnant rat has another litter. I haven't lost any this way, and they all grow to a small adult size by the 2nd month of age for feeders.

Now I'm also terrible at estimating the size of my tubs compared to a 10 g tank, but I try to give them as much space as possible. Breeders are kept in 1.2 or 1.3 groups in my 54 qt tubs.

I don't know if that is any help, but I sure hope your females quit eating the babies!

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This is definitely helpful, Connie. I would guess it might be not weaning them soon enough. I have so many rats that I don't really keep track of how old they are. Do you have a size reference for weaning? As far as the size of the tubs, I use the medium cat litter pans. I suppose they might be a little small. I will do a test with a larger pan to see if there is any difference. Thanks for the info!

Jamie

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Originally Posted by jglass38

This is definitely helpful, Connie. I would guess it might be not weaning them soon enough. I have so many rats that I don't really keep track of how old they are. Do you have a size reference for weaning? As far as the size of the tubs, I use the medium cat litter pans. I suppose they might be a little small. I will do a test with a larger pan to see if there is any difference. Thanks for the info!

Jamie

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Yea I know what you mean, I keep track of all my litters on a large calender in the rat room. I've been debating getting a grease pencil to hang by the tubs so I can scribble on the tub when I see a litter, then write the date of weaning 3 weeks later.

As far as I can tell, they are ready to wean when their eyes have been open fully for a week. That is generally around 21-25 days, and the mothers will have their new pinks already. LOL, thats probably no more help!

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Yea I know what you mean, I keep track of all my litters on a large calender in the rat room. I've been debating getting a grease pencil to hang by the tubs so I can scribble on the tub when I see a litter, then write the date of weaning 3 weeks later.

As far as I can tell, they are ready to wean when their eyes have been open fully for a week. That is generally around 21-25 days, and the mothers will have their new pinks already. LOL, thats probably no more help!

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That is actually helpful. I check them a couple times daily so I can keep a mental note. Hopefully I can stop the carnage! :)

It is safe to seperate the babies from mom the day that their eyes are all the way open. The number of days it takes to get to this point varies depending on the size of the litter, the size of the mom, the number of litters in the tank, and how many moms are sharing in the nursing duties.

I keep track of the breeding groups age by writing the date of their first litter in the corner of the 10 gallon tank. I write it on the glass using a red permanent marker. The ink from the marker stays on well enough where it won't come off just by touching it, but it is easy to remove with a paper towel and windex when your are ready to set up a new group.

Ive had around 8 litters so far and the other night was my first almost weanling death. Looked in the tub and founf a 3 week old dead and the head had started to be chewed on.

Ive had a couple pinks die, but thats about it as far as deaths go

I think Jamie cursed me with his orginal statement, found 1 dead yesterday and another one this morning. All from the same litter, not overcrowded so could just be natural as the the last 2 were just dead and no signs of trauma.

Jamie, I have trouble keeping track of exactly how old some of my ASF litters are so I really just eyeball the right age to pull them. Eyes open, running around eating and drinking, somewhere around 3 weeks old. I just pulled some last night and just now ran and weighed one for you. They tend to be about 15 to 18 grams in weight if that's any help to you.