Feeding the newborns...?

Alright, so I've successfully hatched out 9 beautiful balls, but I'm in need of some more experienced know-how on the feeding end of things.

They are now three weeks old, and I've been having trouble getting them to take their first meal. I'm trying to get them on f/t mice fuzzies (which I know is not the easiest route, but not much is available in my area). Have any breeders in here had luck with getting hatchlings to take f/t on their first meal? If so what methods did you use? I've tried offering it to them in their tubs, in a seperate tub, I've forced blood out the fuzzie's nose. I'm not quite desperate enough to slit the mouse (which is what I use to do with my first snake back in his hatchling days) but I will be soon if they don't start taking in food.

I'd also like to know how long they can live off their yolk, before I should start getting worried about starvation/lack of nutrietion. I know ball pythons are diehards with fasting, but I'm guessing a newly hatched ball can't go as long without food as an adult can.

Sorry for the long thread, but if anyone has any pointers/input, it would be appreaciated. Thanks!

Most hatchlings will not take f/t as their first meals, which is why breeders prepare ahead of time to make sure that they'll have the proper sized live prey available. If at all possible, you should try to find some live hopper mice.

Here's a great link for you: Getting Hatchlings Started

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Most hatchlings will not take f/t as their first meals, which is why breeders prepare ahead of time to make sure that they'll have the proper sized live prey available. If at all possible, you should try to find some live hopper mice.

Here's a great link for you: Getting Hatchlings Started

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I agree, live is the way to go.:O

Where do you get live hoppers? I obviously don't have a breeding stock lying around and the pet stores around here only have adults it seems like. And isn't it dangerous to leave live prey in with a snake overnight? or are hoppers not very aggresive?

The teeth on hoppers are not developed enough to cause injury. They're still somewhat soft.

Call your local herp society or zoo to see who they recommend you get live prey from. Ask you local pet store if they can get live hoppers from their breeder that's stocking them.

You CAN get hatchlings to take frozen thawed as their first meal but it's very hit or miss (mostly miss). You'll need to heat the mice up to about 100 degrees and dance them around in front of the snake on a pair of hemostats, you'll have to keep reheating because they cool down pretty quickly. It's best if you can keep the room somewhat dark during this time, You'll also want to give them a hide box that they fit snuggly into and dance the prey in front of the entrance.

However after a few years of messing around with this, I just feed live hopper mice to everybody now. It's rare that I have a hatchling hold out longer then a month with live hoppers. I've left hoppers in with hatchlings for days at a time without ever having a snake get injured by a mouse.

Once you have your snakes feeding regularly and reliably, and they know when to expect food, THEN it's easier to switch them to heated frozen thawed.

Mark

As said, it's a bit harder to get them on f/t right up front but it's possible.

I wouldn't worry yet though. At only three weeks old it's not panic time yet by any means. Do weigh them weekly so you can track any losses of weight though just to monitor that. If you figure that they don't even eat that first week or so until they shed and then a lot of people (me included) don't offer for another week - that makes them about 2 weeks old or so before they really will eat much of anything. So yours aren't all that far behind.

I have 11 hatchlings (more hatching today actually) and I just got my last hold out to start eating independently. Due to falling behind we did assist feed a few of them but only had to do that once or twice and they took right off.

The freaky thing is one of them won't eat live but will eat f/t off tongs. Makes no sense whatsoever but hey one of the babies has got to slither to a different drum I guess. :D

lol. Well, it's nice to hear it's possible. I will do a little tracking down to see if I can find someone that I can get live hoppers off of, but in the meantime I will continue to try to get them on f/t. I've had a little experinece with stubborn feeders. My first ball didn't seem to care for his f/t food when he was young, but now he eats like a champ. I've never had to feed live before.

About how long do you wait before you consider assisted feeding. I know it has to do with weight lose, but in general how long?

With the 4 we assisted, they were hatched May 5 and May 20th. We didn't even consider assisting until mid-July and it was obvious those 4 were just not picking up the eating thing and were seriously falling behind their siblings in weight. We went by clutch average weight and those refusing were in the range of 60 grams while their feeding clutchmates were hitting 100 grams or more (they had all been within grams of each other in weight at hatching).

1 of the 4 only had to have 1 assist and was off and hunting independently after that. Another one needed two assists (we feed every 5 days for the hatchlings) and got the idea that food was a good idea. The last two both ate independently a couple of days ago for the first time. One of them is the one that won't take live for some freaky reason. The only way that hatchling will eat is f/t off tongs apparently. Goofy baby! LOL

We had to assist feed some CH hatchlings last year. Out of 5 we got, we had to assist 2, 2 ate right off themselves and one passed away before we could help it. I can tell you though that the 2 that had to be assisted are doing wonderfully well and you'd never know now that they ever needed the help last year.

Don't rush to assist though. Do everything else first. It's stressful on the babies and something you don't want to rush into.

yes, I understand. I wouldn't assist feed unless it meant saving a starving snake. I just didn't know how long was too long. thanks for all your help. :gj:

I start my babies on live hoppers and most of all of them eat after 7 days, one or two might take 14 days.
After a month the ones that are not eatting I force feed with a knocked out hopper. I don't like to wait to long but each person does there own thing. I like the baby to still be strong to take the stress of force feeding. You might have to do it 1 or 2 times and they come around. Babies love live pray!!

Ask your pet store if they can order you some small live hoppers, most of the time if the pet store is cool they will do it, bad thing is they charge a lot. You can also try and get a group of rodents that can breed and you make your own but thats up to you.

Good luck with the babies!

I think I'll pass on the rodent breeding... at least for now. I have a friend who is a rodent lover, but she would never breed them just so they can become food for my snakes. Dang her! :D

How much should I expect to pay for 9 live hoppers special ordered, approximately?

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

With the 4 we assisted, they were hatched May 5 and May 20th. We didn't even consider assisting until mid-July and it was obvious those 4 were just not picking up the eating thing and were seriously falling behind their siblings in weight. We went by clutch average weight and those refusing were in the range of 60 grams while their feeding clutchmates were hitting 100 grams or more (they had all been within grams of each other in weight at hatching).

Don't rush to assist though. Do everything else first. It's stressful on the babies and something you don't want to rush into.

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Jo, did you ever try the newspaper trick? I don't see it here very often so I don't know if a lot of people know about it, so forgive me if this is something you already tried. After about 2 or 3 refusals of live hoppers I like to stuff the babies shoeboxes full of wadded up balls of newspaper. Put enough in there so that it's completely filled. Then give the snakes a few days to make tunnels through the paper. Release a live hopper or two in there for a day or so. It really seems to help the timid ones a lot. I think it gives them more opportunity to hunt from an ambush position.

Mark

I wouldn't say a special order, just ask them if they can get hoppers and they should be able to get them from there supplier. I pay a quarter a hopper and sixty cents a jumbo but pet store charge from 1.50 to 2.50 a mouse.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Jo, did you ever try the newspaper trick? I don't see it here very often so I don't know if a lot of people know about it, so forgive me if this is something you already tried. After about 2 or 3 refusals of live hoppers I like to stuff the babies shoeboxes full of wadded up balls of newspaper. Put enough in there so that it's completely filled. Then give the snakes a few days to make tunnels through the paper. Release a live hopper or two in there for a day or so. It really seems to help the timid ones a lot. I think it gives them more opportunity to hunt from an ambush position.

Mark

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That just sounds like fun, lol. Like a snake "ant farm"!

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Jo, did you ever try the newspaper trick? I don't see it here very often so I don't know if a lot of people know about it, so forgive me if this is something you already tried. After about 2 or 3 refusals of live hoppers I like to stuff the babies shoeboxes full of wadded up balls of newspaper. Put enough in there so that it's completely filled. Then give the snakes a few days to make tunnels through the paper. Release a live hopper or two in there for a day or so. It really seems to help the timid ones a lot. I think it gives them more opportunity to hunt from an ambush position.

Mark

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Oh yep Mark, I love the newspaper trick. I've used it for a long while now with any nervy or stressed BP, whether it's a baby or a big one - it really does help them settle in.

These babies had everything tried for them but they just didn't start themselves. Now they have all hunted independently (other than the wierdo who will only eat off tongs and is scared of anything live???) so I expect them to do just fine and quickly catch up to their hatchmates.

In my opinion, it is hard enough to get them started on live as it is, so why try f/t. Some would take them, but I would imagine that most would not. I would try to feed them live first, then once they are eating good, try to switch them over.

Hope this helps.

SCORE! I called around to the petstores in my area, and one local feed and seed store actually gets shipments of hoppers live on Tuesdays, keeps them through wednesday, and freezes them on Thursday. YAY! My babies might actually do some eatin' this week. :D