Why we recommend Provent-a-mite in particular

Mites are a terrible problem in a collection but with the right tools they can be eradicated quickly! I see a lot of posts where people say they use various homebrews and products not patented for use on animals or even tested for safety. In my opinion, Provent A Mite (www.pro-products.com) is the best product out there for getting rid of these nasty little bugs. There are a lot of people who say that Provent A Mite (PAM for short, not to be confused with the cooking spray!) has the same ingredients as bedding sprays or other products meant for use on mammals. I made the following post on a thread (http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ighlight=mites) about a year and a half ago. Hopefully it is helpful in making your decision on what product to use. In the end, everyone needs to make their own decision about what is best for the animals in their care. Best of luck!


I spent about 30 minutes on the phone with Bob Pound, the manufacturer of Provent A Mite. He may be the most knowledgeable person about pest control and the chemicals used this side of my local exterminator. I am sure the information that he provided which I will post here will be dismissed as bias by those who believe beyond a reasonable doubt that Equate is:

A. The same product in a different can
B. Equally as safe for reptiles
C. Equally as effective

Take it as you will, but this information is pretty damn convincing in my mind (which may not be on par with some of the insta-experts that reside here).

Here you go (his direct information will be in quotes):

Claim: Equate is the same product in a different can and is equally safe for reptiles as Provent A Mite

"The word permethrin is a generic name of a group of pyrethroid chemical isomers. This is like saying everything with the word soap is the same thing. Put your wet hand into a box of powdered laundry detergent and see if it is the same as a bar of ivory, but they are both "soap".

Without exception, these other products use a much more toxic isomer as they are all designed to be applied to material that maybe will have the potential for contact with mammals, which have a completely different physiology than reptiles do. These products are designed to be as toxic as possible to get a quick "knock down". These higher toxicities will not harm mammals, but are documented to harm lower vertebrates, including reptiles, fish, amphibians, mollusks and so forth and therefore can be used for these other uses. Also, only a very small percentage of what is in the can is the "active" ingredient, the rest is always a trade secret of the company, so will never be disclosed (only the generic active name has to be disclosed under EPA regulations). Different isomers have differing toxicities and again, only a range of the cis-trans ratio is given on a label, so one can never find out what is really in the can (again trade secret).

Since a product is only approved by the EPA for the uses listed on the label, chemicals in the formula that are not toxic to the host for the testing submitted, doesn't mean they would not be toxic to a host not listed. In fact many of the "inerts" used in these permethrin formulas are toxic to reptiles. If the company tried to receive EPA approval with these formulas for use on reptiles, they would not, as the EPA would not allow a product to be sold that would harm the host listed on the label. This is why the EPA regulations state that it is a federal offense to sell or use a product inconsistent with the label, not only because of the risk to the host, but also because such usage can create resistance.

Many products for example, use a more toxic isomer and then use a synergist such as PBO. PBO breaks through the insect's defense and its synergistic activity makes the insecticide more powerful and effective. With the high cost of insecticides, PBO effectively reduces the cost by allowing the product to use les s active ingredient to obtain the mortality rate desired. The problem with this is PBO is absolutely toxic to reptiles with several published studies regarding using PBO for the killing of brown tree and other snakes confirming this.

Despite anyone's claim to the contrary, many of these other "identical" products have injured and killed many reptiles as we get the phone calls from people telling us after the fact. Also many times, the exposure can lead to chronic health problems instead of an acute reaction, so if the animal dies at a later date, no one looks back and understands the actual cause of death. This is a classic example with no pest strips. No clinical studies were ever performed and people just started using them, using their animals as guinea pigs. Only after many years of usage were the risks associated with them disclosed. This has been established by many leading zoos and vets, but even now, many people still swear they are the best thing to use and do not pose any risk."

Provent-a-mite™ is the only product that has been approved by the EPA and USDA], has undergone extensive clinical and field studies to insure that will eliminate, not just control a mite or tick problem and is unique enough to have received a patent. No other product is more effective or can make these claims and certainly no other product is the same as Provent-a-mite™”


Claim: Equate (and other similar products) are equally as effective in killing mites and their eggs


"Provent-a-mite™ is the only product that will create residual protection that will not drop down to levels that can create resistance. We use a proprietary "time" release that ensures that it will create a long term residual effect at a high enough concentration to prevent the potential t o create resistant pests. Since mites and ticks can carry several diseases that can be harmful or fatal to the host, just getting an infestation is already too late if the pest was infected. Applying Provent-a-mite™to a cloth and then wiping around any openings in a cage will provide a barrier that will last a minimum of 30 days (usually 60 to 180 days). This will kill any ectoparasites before they can infest and potentially infect an animal. None of these other products can do this as their formulas are designed to break down very quickly, often in as little as 48 hours.

Provent-a-mite™ is also one of the least expensive methods when one compares the cost per application and the number of applications required. To treat an average 4' x 2' cage is approximately 50¢ with usually only one application required. To use the product preventatively, the cost for an average cage is about 5¢. The product has an average shelf life of 7 years. One of the biggest problems is that many people overuse the product, so the can will not treat as many cages as it actually should, costing more to use it than necessary.”

Yeah! This stuff is totally worth it's weight in gold. 1 snake already had mites. I used it 1 time per tank, and never again have I had mites. I don't even remember were the can is. Don't need to.

might i add dont use this stuff around feeder insects or pet insects!

I have also heard of Provent-O-Mite. Is this a misspelling, or are they different products?

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/ma...ack_knight.asp

Just a misspelling.

Ive used other Permethrin products, and Provent A Mite, Nothing can compare. It works great, I couldnt live without it.

I picked up a Jungle Carpet about 1.5 years ago. That snaked was the carrier of a bad case of Mites. I did try the Cheap stuff from Walmart for head lice and it worked. I then picked up PAM. They are all gone now. It's been 30 days at least. My snakes where near death. I can't say enough about this product.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Mites are a terrible problem in a collection but with the right tools they can be eradicated quickly! I see a lot of posts where people say they use various homebrews and products not patented for use on animals or even tested for safety. In my opinion, Provent A Mite (www.pro-products.com) is the best product out there for getting rid of these nasty little bugs. There are a lot of people who say that Provent A Mite (PAM for short, not to be confused with the cooking spray!) has the same ingredients as bedding sprays or other products meant for use on mammals. I made the following post on a thread (http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ighlight=mites) about a year and a half ago. Hopefully it is helpful in making your decision on what product to use. In the end, everyone needs to make their own decision about what is best for the animals in their care. Best of luck!


I spent about 30 minutes on the phone with Bob Pound, the manufacturer of Provent A Mite. He may be the most knowledgeable person about pest control and the chemicals used this side of my local exterminator. I am sure the information that he provided which I will post here will be dismissed as bias by those who believe beyond a reasonable doubt that Equate is:

A. The same product in a different can
B. Equally as safe for reptiles
C. Equally as effective

Take it as you will, but this information is pretty damn convincing in my mind (which may not be on par with some of the insta-experts that reside here).

Here you go (his direct information will be in quotes):

Claim: Equate is the same product in a different can and is equally safe for reptiles as Provent A Mite

"The word permethrin is a generic name of a group of pyrethroid chemical isomers. This is like saying everything with the word soap is the same thing. Put your wet hand into a box of powdered laundry detergent and see if it is the same as a bar of ivory, but they are both "soap".

Without exception, these other products use a much more toxic isomer as they are all designed to be applied to material that maybe will have the potential for contact with mammals, which have a completely different physiology than reptiles do. These products are designed to be as toxic as possible to get a quick "knock down". These higher toxicities will not harm mammals, but are documented to harm lower vertebrates, including reptiles, fish, amphibians, mollusks and so forth and therefore can be used for these other uses. Also, only a very small percentage of what is in the can is the "active" ingredient, the rest is always a trade secret of the company, so will never be disclosed (only the generic active name has to be disclosed under EPA regulations). Different isomers have differing toxicities and again, only a range of the cis-trans ratio is given on a label, so one can never find out what is really in the can (again trade secret).

Since a product is only approved by the EPA for the uses listed on the label, chemicals in the formula that are not toxic to the host for the testing submitted, doesn't mean they would not be toxic to a host not listed. In fact many of the "inerts" used in these permethrin formulas are toxic to reptiles. If the company tried to receive EPA approval with these formulas for use on reptiles, they would not, as the EPA would not allow a product to be sold that would harm the host listed on the label. This is why the EPA regulations state that it is a federal offense to sell or use a product inconsistent with the label, not only because of the risk to the host, but also because such usage can create resistance.

Many products for example, use a more toxic isomer and then use a synergist such as PBO. PBO breaks through the insect's defense and its synergistic activity makes the insecticide more powerful and effective. With the high cost of insecticides, PBO effectively reduces the cost by allowing the product to use les s active ingredient to obtain the mortality rate desired. The problem with this is PBO is absolutely toxic to reptiles with several published studies regarding using PBO for the killing of brown tree and other snakes confirming this.

Despite anyone's claim to the contrary, many of these other "identical" products have injured and killed many reptiles as we get the phone calls from people telling us after the fact. Also many times, the exposure can lead to chronic health problems instead of an acute reaction, so if the animal dies at a later date, no one looks back and understands the actual cause of death. This is a classic example with no pest strips. No clinical studies were ever performed and people just started using them, using their animals as guinea pigs. Only after many years of usage were the risks associated with them disclosed. This has been established by many leading zoos and vets, but even now, many people still swear they are the best thing to use and do not pose any risk."

Provent-a-mite™ is the only product that has been approved by the EPA and USDA], has undergone extensive clinical and field studies to insure that will eliminate, not just control a mite or tick problem and is unique enough to have received a patent. No other product is more effective or can make these claims and certainly no other product is the same as Provent-a-mite™”


Claim: Equate (and other similar products) are equally as effective in killing mites and their eggs


"Provent-a-mite™ is the only product that will create residual protection that will not drop down to levels that can create resistance. We use a proprietary "time" release that ensures that it will create a long term residual effect at a high enough concentration to prevent the potential t o create resistant pests. Since mites and ticks can carry several diseases that can be harmful or fatal to the host, just getting an infestation is already too late if the pest was infected. Applying Provent-a-mite™to a cloth and then wiping around any openings in a cage will provide a barrier that will last a minimum of 30 days (usually 60 to 180 days). This will kill any ectoparasites before they can infest and potentially infect an animal. None of these other products can do this as their formulas are designed to break down very quickly, often in as little as 48 hours.

Provent-a-mite™ is also one of the least expensive methods when one compares the cost per application and the number of applications required. To treat an average 4' x 2' cage is approximately 50¢ with usually only one application required. To use the product preventatively, the cost for an average cage is about 5¢. The product has an average shelf life of 7 years. One of the biggest problems is that many people overuse the product, so the can will not treat as many cages as it actually should, costing more to use it than necessary.”

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I can attest to this as well. I used an off brand after a friend of mine who has been breeding pythons for years that I trust suggested it was just as safe. Used it with great success for a while, but ended up having a pied that had neurological issues because of it and died less than a week later. You live, you learn.

On a side note, the other permetherins (I use one made for horses) works outstanding as a preventative if use correctly. It stays active for about 3 weeks. I use it around the cages every 2 weeks in my store and since have never had a mite spread while in the store. I do not spray in order to prevent damage to snakes and inverts, but instead wipe OUTSIDE of cages with a dilluted form and have done so for nearly a year with no issues. I also apply it around door ways to quarentine/hospital rooms to stop spread.

Provent-A-Mite rules!!!!!!! No ifs, ands, or buts about it! I will never use anything else. It was FAST working and my animals had no problem with it at all! Nough Said!
Mike Kelly

Is this something you use if your snakes get mites, or can you use it to make sure they wont get them?

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Originally Posted by AmandaRisher

Is this something you use if your snakes get mites, or can you use it to make sure they wont get them?

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Both! And man, it works GREAT. One application got rid of my mite infestation and I've never had a problem since!

I understand that it is to be used for the enclosure, so how do you get rid of the existing mites on the animals??

I used reptile relief to kill them on the animals the one time I had a few get into my quarantine. Provent-a-mite takes care of the rest.

I understand Provent-a-mite alone will get rid of them, though. I just like to be extra-sure.

I totally agree, I have been in pest control for 9 years and have talked to numerous entomologists on pesticide uses for reptiles. Most of the time if a product hurts an animal it is used on, it's because it was used improperly. Most people just don't take time to read labeling. Fipronil, the active in Frontline also works great on mites. Just be careful with water bowls when applying any of this stuff. Old school Listerine also works well with mites, but since Provent-a-mite came out it's all you really need.

I use this stuff and it is what i recommend to everyone. Although it is not for sale in Ny theres always ways around that. I spoke to my vet and he agreed that this was one of the best ways to cure mite problems. I use it for all my cages to prevent and rid mites from snakes that come in from breeders who send me those pesky little guys.

guys I have a question, Do I need to re-apply everytime I change the bedding in my tubs, I use newspapaer by the way

spray it once a month.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jglass38

"The word permethrin is a generic name of a group of pyrethroid chemical isomers. This is like saying everything with the word soap is the same thing. Put your wet hand into a box of powdered laundry detergent and see if it is the same as a bar of ivory, but they are both "soap".

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This statement is wrong. Permethrin is the specific name of a chemical that belongs to the group pyrethroid. This is the specific organic molecule of Permethrinhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...D-skeletal.png. It also has 4 stereoisomers and for those a little rusty on organic chemistry, it is basically the atoms in the same location but in a different orientation in space.

This fact does not take anything away from the PAM and that other products may include chemicals that can be harmful.

Is this stuff no good then?
http://www.petmountain.com/photos/pr...s/mite-off.jpg

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Originally Posted by Greekinese

Is this stuff no good then?
http://www.petmountain.com/photos/pr...s/mite-off.jpg

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Pay attention to what this user said:
"

RE: mites	Reply
by bush_viper17 on February 8, 2005	Mail this to a friend!
Ive done this so far. I sprayed him with Mite Off by Zoo Med. I waited for about 3 days then soaked her in water. I noticed that alot of dead and alive mites came off of her. I then inspected the cage and saw mites everywhere so i changed the snakes water and let her soak again. I put her in a new container and sprayed the cage with a bleach/water solution. I let the cage sit over night, Later today Im going to spray the cage one more time. The snake looks like it is about to shed so I think Ill wait until it sheds and put it back into its old enclosure. Does that sound like it might work?"

Here:
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/forums/Experts/13525

I picked up a can of P.A.M. for $30 at a reptile expo and have no idea if it is a good or bad price but have to say, I do not feel ripped off even if it is usually only $15 a can.
Worked out over how long a can lasts for me it is still a tiny investment.
The biggest single drawback to P.A.M. is it isn't available at every major departments store and pet store.
This is actually something that is going in "reptile gift baskets" from now on. If I set a kid up with a reptile and habitat, A can of this stuff is going to be included.

Hope that help.

The biggest reason why there are so many using other methods is easy it is not legal in most of the developed world. Canada, it can not legally be brought in and the EU is the same. I don't know about the asia and australia but that is good reason not to use it. I thought it was being restricted in NY and Florida as well.

The use of it according to the information I was given has such extreme measures that I would not use it as it is too difficult to use safely.

"Vacate rooms after treatment and ventilate before reoccupying. Avoid contamination of feed and foodstuffs. Do not allow children or pets to contact treated arcas until surfaces are dry."

"Remove and wash contaminated clothing before reuse."

"Harmful if absorbed through skin."

"Avoid comact with skin, eyes or clothing."

"If on skin or clothing: .Take off contaminated clothing.•Rlnse skin immediately with plenty of water for 15-20 minutes.•Call a poison control center or doctor for treatment advice." -From the instructions.

from the EPA document (73617-1) http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/chem_s...1-20040505.pdf

My snake room is carefully controlled, popping open the window when it could be as cold as -25ºF out is simply not going to happen. What do you wear? Tyvek suit, I suppose and toss it after you are done. I use the old school methods DE and some elbow grease the 5 times we have had rescues with mites the old methods worked just fine. Why subject your self to potentially carcinogenic chem and crazy precautions?



Personally I mix 1000s of gallons of toxic chemicals a year. I follow every precaution exactly that they state. I cannot see how an everyday person could follow the directions on the label of PAM. So the assumption is that they do not use the product in a safe manner.

Pro-vent A Mite is the BEST! My fiancee and I were cursed with a mite infestation which affected 10 of our snakes. After two months of soaking, veggie oil rubs, and pet store treatment, I was reaching my breaking point. I was picking them out of my red-tail's scales with tweezers nightly. We ordered provent a mite and after a hard breakdown of all our racks and such, we treated and now do a very minor spot protection once a month. It's like nuclear weaponry. The mites are LONG gone.

Below is the best video I found on mite pro-vention (heehee... :rofl:) and this is the method I use now. Works like a champ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdBlrRTEEeM

Hotelvoodoo why on earth would you advocate using a product in a manor contrary to the very clear instructions found on the bottle? Especially on something that is known to cause damage to snakes and humans?

Seriously when using pesticides every precaution should be followed exactly!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Hotelvoodoo why on earth would you advocate using a product in a manor contrary to the very clear instructions found on the bottle? Especially on something that is known to cause damage to snakes and humans?

Seriously when using pesticides every precaution should be followed exactly!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I advocate using it because it works, and I don't follow his method exactly. I don't however let the room air for a ridiculously long time and I do spray the racks and tubs directly. I don't do it when the snakes are in their tubs and make sure it's dry before they are reintroduced to their enclosures. I followed Brian Gundy's advice because he's a reputable and well respected breeder and I feel like he's probably figured out a great way to use the product without harming his animals. He says in the video he's been doing it that way for seven years without any ill effect, and if that's not a good result, I don't know what is. We have been using this method for the last six months once a month and our collection has remained completely healthy. The company imposes those precautions to avoid lawsuits. Am I taking a risk in not following their very careful instructions, according to the company? Yes. Did I get the advice to do this from an expert? Yes. Has it worked for me? Yes.

I think I am about to have a mite encounter. I have seen 2 tiny black things flying in my ball python's house, I killed those but the snake has been soaking more than I am familiar with. I also let my snake crawl over a paper towel & it is shedding but I also saw a good bit of tiny brown specks or scale looking specks come off onto my hands & the paper towel. I have ordered PAM & Reptile Relief Sprays. Do I use those together or just one of the products? What do I do for the snake itself? My snake came from Petco. Thanks beforehand for any help. I am totally new at this although I have tortoises & have never had a problem. Antonio

I stand by PAM. Has worked 100% in every way possible. Just be cautious with it and it's always turned out perfect for me