My first breeders!

I've started my very first small rattery. I've bred my first two breeders I picked up. No babies yet, but hopefully in the next week or so!!

An agouti hooded male
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...s/7bf66582.jpg

and a black hooded female
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...s/00b1a0ef.jpg

And of course my two pet females. Kitty, the blue hooded, I've had forever, she's roughly 3 years old give or take (NOT being bred). Mercedes, the cream hooded, is about 6-7 months. I did decide to breed Mercedes and see what I get from her and Bently.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...s/IMG_1637.jpg



I even started a cute little website :P Although, I'm NOT advertising them as feeders, (I've already had those crazy rat/tree huggers email me :rolleyes:) I'll probably sell most of them that way.

www.undergroundrattery.synthasite.com

undergroundrattery@live.com

LOL, no where on your site does it say feeders too... ahh, gotta love the over exciteable rat lovers :rolleyes:

They look good, have fun with that!

Nice....I like it!

You'll have to check out my "mittens" strain of rats....very cute stuff....as well as two "buzzed" rats.....they are white but have VERY short hair for some reason (maybe I missed something and this is common or bad)

Best of luck!
John

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

LOL, no where on your site does it say feeders too... ahh, gotta love the over exciteable rat lovers :rolleyes:

They look good, have fun with that!

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Lol, I made sure to change everything that even hinted that I would be willing to sell them as feeders. I'm hoping people will email me anyhow wanting feeders. When I first made the site I said they were feeders and got THREE emails!!! "You're not a true rat lover" "how could you let your pets die a horrible death" etc.

Now I just get comments like "there are too many rats as it is, and they all end up in rescues. You're just adding to the problem." I should have said "no I'm not, when I get too many I'll just feed them to some snakes." :P

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Originally Posted by jpman78

Nice....I like it!

You'll have to check out my "mittens" strain of rats....very cute stuff....as well as two "buzzed" rats.....they are white but have VERY short hair for some reason (maybe I missed something and this is common or bad)

Best of luck!
John

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Mittens?!? They aren't Berkshires are they, with a white stripe down their face?! I'm actually looking to buy one or two of those! I've emailed a woman about a blue berkshire, but she doesn't want to sell to a breeder :rolleyes:

I'm not sure what the white "buzzed" ones are :confused:

If you haven't already, you'll quickly find that there are cool rat people like Becky and Crissy, then the rest of them.

Most will not sell to you if you keep snakes, many will not sell to you because you don't have this credential or that, or want to breed. The fancy rat world is very unwelcoming to us reptile people.

I imagine the buzzed he's referring to are Fuzzy, and last I heard not a very desireable trait. I don't really keep track of what the fancy rat world deems acceptable or not. I just try to keep on top of genetics and any problems from certain genes. I don't have any fuzzy or hairless, so I'm not to worried about them I guess! lol

Berks are common, I have a crap ton of them. ;) Too bad you aren't anywhere nearby, I'd hook you up!

Here's an email I got from one local breeder, her's was one of the "nicer" ones.

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Hi Connie, I don't understand your interest in producing healthy rats of genetic high quality if they are just used for feeders. That would be like saying you wanted a high quality frog to feed your snake. The snake doesn't care as long as it's alive and warm. A rat that is not healthy will not hurt a snakes health.

The established breeders will not provide their stock knowing the offspring will be used as a food source. There is a lot of work that goes into getting the ratties healthy, with just the right size ears and eyes and nose length.

Some people spend hundreds of dollars getting these beautiful pit bull dogs and then put them in dogs fight and kill them, what is the point? Either you are strickly a pet only breeder or a feeder breeder, in the rattie world you can't be both, you will not be accepted. I'm sorry.

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My response

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Thank you for responding, it is much appreciated. I understand your points on whether or not I should care if the rats are healthy or not, because the reptile would not care either. I guess I was misleading in my question, I'm not looking for show quality animals, I just don't want animals that are heavily inbred and more susceptible to disease. This is because I selectively choose who gets bred to who, and I'm trying to prolong the health and temperament of these animals for generations to come; which is what most good responsible breeders do.

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Her response (and welcome to crazy town)

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HI Connie, I love all animals and everything has it's purpose and place in this world. I respect and find reptiles fascinating. I know they have to eat. I've heard of many snake owners who teach their baby snakes to eat thawed out frozen pinkies that were humanely put down. This part I can live with. What I have a hard time with is the large reptiles and the large ratties being but into their aquariums with no where to hide or escape just waiting to die.

The reason why this bothers me is because I specialize in rattie behavior. Many people don't realize it but ratties have feelings and emotions just like we do. They feel happiness, sadness, and pain. They can be emotionally hurt and psychologically damaged just like we can. They are capable of real feelings of devotion, love and affection, not just for each other, but for us humans.

This waiting to die fits into the psychologically damaged category. They suffer emotionally during the time it takes to become supper. They have panic attacks and can go insane because they know what's about to happen and are helpless to defend themselves. Just picture yourself caught in a lions cage and the door is locked and you start to get the feelings that these animals get in their circumstance.

It's the suffering...that's what makes me sick to my stomach. I wouldn't wish suffering on any animal or person. I feel every living creature has the right to have a happy life. In the wild, a rattie can out run and hide from predators. If they are smart they may live a long life, but at least they are given a chance to try and make it. When stuck inside a glass wall they don't stand a chance of survival. It's just not a fair fight. I just want it all to be fair. It's like two boxers fighting in the ring and one is blindfolded. Just not fair.

Well anyway, enough said...sigh...

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Yup...typical. When people on the bus see my mice or rats that I bring home from the store, some of them try 'the shpeal' on me as well - 'Oh it's cruel! They just sit there with a predator with nowhere to run!' and so on and so forth.

Of course, when I tell them that I put the rodents 'to sleep' (i.e. CO2) right before feeding them to the snake, it shuts them up but they still glare. For the really loud ones, I let them know that I adore all animals as well, which is why I support the natural cycle of life and give any animal in my care the best life it can have. If that life is only going to last another hour or so, then so be it but they still get the best I can give. That includes feeding healthy, quality rodents to my snakes.

Even though I really want better quality rats for breeding, like from a rat breeder, I know I would never get those because of the whacked out attitudes most of those people seem to have - your emails above are case in point. :) We just do what we can, try to explain to those who'll listen, and try to ignore those who refuse to learn. Oh well.

BTW Isis - those are some cute rats! I love blue and cream hoodeds. :) Lotsa luck with the breeding!

Pretty rats and cute website! I don't understand a lot of these rat breeders at all. And those emails were just strange...Wanting a fair fight? So for instance..fighting dogs is OK as long as they are equal? What strange logic.

I would also imagine these breeders think nothing about the cow's fate when they grab a McD's cheeseburger. I love all animals but not every one is at the top of the food chain.

hey connie,

you should reply back that, that yes rats are a lot like humans and seeing those rats die keeps your urges from sacrificing little (human) babies. then ask the lady which she would prefer, cause you gotta satisfy the voices.

just a thought.

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Originally Posted by redpython

hey connie,

you should reply back that, that yes rats are a lot like humans and seeing those rats die keeps your urges from sacrificing little (human) babies. then ask the lady which she would prefer, cause you gotta satisfy the voices.

just a thought.

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LOL, I'm not sure I'd even do that one. I'll leave the dirty stuff to you. ;) Anyways, this email is from a year ago... So I don't think she's quite remember what we're talking about.

Oh good lord, now I feel a rant coming on so bear with me....

Why is it supposedly sane, rational, thinking adults have this ridiculous need to impose their own human angst on some perfectly normal animal and it's responses? I'm sorry but I find it incredibly self-serving for that woman to use words like "panic attack" with reference to a rat, it's response as a prey and the snake's response as a predator. Her imposing her human feelings on a dynamic that is natural, that has been going on long before she was ever born and will go on long after she's dust is, for me, just the ridiculous human need to believe only our feelings and reactions "count" or can be the yardstick for all beings.

It's a rat. It might be a just nifty perfect rat but it's a rat. Rats can be many things...a nice pet, a great companion animal, a dirty thing on a garbage dump, a natural food for many predators, one of them being snakes. All the other human babbling and yapping will never change that fact.

Society confounds me. We impose human feelings on animals that don't want them (how pushy and rude is that?). We dress up dogs, carry them around and treat them as "our babies" when the poor thing just wants to run outside and crap under a tree and sniff another dog's butt. We decide our cat has "emotional issues". Makes me wonder sometimes what that says about folks.

If you don't buy into the current mentality then you don't "care". How about caring enough to actually honor the animal by letting it be what it is, fulfill it's natural role, just be...without messing it up with our muddied, angst filled human existance. Sure I refer to our snakes as "scalekids" but that's more about them being a part of our family interest and hobby than any assumption that the lovely things need any of our human attributes.

Okay rant over. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I'll leave the dirty stuff to you. ;)

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yeah right connie. i have to watch bambi 15 times in a row just to get part of my innocence back after talking to you.

:rofl: Oh my god you guys are too funny!!!! :rofl:

I feel much better knowing others have gotten those nasty emails :) It's so strange to find out there are so many people that care THAT much about rats. For the last few years I've heard nothing but "OH MY GOD YOU HAVE A RAT FOR A PET!!!! SICK!!!" :rolleyes: You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

If you haven't already, you'll quickly find that there are cool rat people like Becky and Crissy, then the rest of them.

Most will not sell to you if you keep snakes, many will not sell to you because you don't have this credential or that, or want to breed. The fancy rat world is very unwelcoming to us reptile people.

I imagine the buzzed he's referring to are Fuzzy, and last I heard not a very desireable trait. I don't really keep track of what the fancy rat world deems acceptable or not. I just try to keep on top of genetics and any problems from certain genes. I don't have any fuzzy or hairless, so I'm not to worried about them I guess! lol

Berks are common, I have a crap ton of them. ;) Too bad you aren't anywhere nearby, I'd hook you up!

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It seems like rat people unwelcoming of a lot of people! Jeesh! I didn't even tell the lady I had a snake when I emailed her!

I'm wondering if his fuzzy rats are going to be hairless. I saw them today and they look young enough to lose what hair they have. :confused: Who knows, my little sis has a blue hooded hairless but I can't remember if it had that much hair when she got it as a baby.

And gosh dang it! Of course you would have a ton of Berks! Have you ever seen a dalmation marked rat? My god I want one! Don't you dare tell me you have a bunch of them too! :P

Those people are only slightly insane. ;)

Well, I think they mean well, but are thinking on a wrong plane.. I mean I'm a vegetarian because I don't like the way that the animals are treated while they are ALIVE. People don't get that.. through my beliefs I don't think death is ever a bad thing, in fact I think its just the opposite, but nothing deserves that kind of long-term abuse.
Not all facilities are bad, just most, and I can't pick and choose because I don't know so I just don't eat it. :]

Continuing my point, the rats live perfectly happy healthy lives most of the time, and have 3 minutes of drama? AND? What's so bad about that? I even think the snakes are being nicer about it because most people think that snakes suffocate their prey. Suffocation takes what? 4-5 minutes? Way too long. They cut off circulation and actually attempt to squeeze the heart until it can no longer beat. How long does this take? Usually less than a minute. That's a pretty quick death if you ask me.

Especially when the younger rats can't even contemplate whats going on.. that's even easier on them.

Hope that made sense.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

Those people are only slightly insane. ;)

Well, I think they mean well, but are thinking on a wrong plane.. I mean I'm a vegetarian because I don't like the way that the animals are treated while they are ALIVE. People don't get that.. through my beliefs I don't think death is ever a bad thing, in fact I think its just the opposite, but nothing deserves that kind of long-term abuse.
Not all facilities are bad, just most, and I can't pick and choose because I don't know so I just don't eat it. :]

Continuing my point, the rats live perfectly happy healthy lives most of the time, and have 3 minutes of drama? AND? What's so bad about that? I even think the snakes are being nicer about it because most people think that snakes suffocate their prey. Suffocation takes what? 4-5 minutes? Way too long. They cut off circulation and actually attempt to squeeze the heart until it can no longer beat. How long does this take? Usually less than a minute. That's a pretty quick death if you ask me.

Especially when the younger rats can't even contemplate whats going on.. that's even easier on them.

Hope that made sense.

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I totally understand what you are saying. I'd rather be crushed by a snake than ripped apart by an owl (WHICH HAPPENEDS TO RATS IN THE WILD) :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Oh good lord, now I feel a rant coming on so bear with me....

Why is it supposedly sane, rational, thinking adults have this ridiculous need to impose their own human angst on some perfectly normal animal and it's responses? I'm sorry but I find it incredibly self-serving for that woman to use words like "panic attack" with reference to a rat, it's response as a prey and the snake's response as a predator. Her imposing her human feelings on a dynamic that is natural, that has been going on long before she was ever born and will go on long after she's dust is, for me, just the ridiculous human need to believe only our feelings and reactions "count" or can be the yardstick for all beings.

It's a rat. It might be a just nifty perfect rat but it's a rat. Rats can be many things...a nice pet, a great companion animal, a dirty thing on a garbage dump, a natural food for many predators, one of them being snakes. All the other human babbling and yapping will never change that fact.

Society confounds me. We impose human feelings on animals that don't want them (how pushy and rude is that?). We dress up dogs, carry them around and treat them as "our babies" when the poor thing just wants to run outside and crap under a tree and sniff another dog's butt. We decide our cat has "emotional issues". Makes me wonder sometimes what that says about folks.

If you don't buy into the current mentality then you don't "care". How about caring enough to actually honor the animal by letting it be what it is, fulfill it's natural role, just be...without messing it up with our muddied, angst filled human existance. Sure I refer to our snakes as "scalekids" but that's more about them being a part of our family interest and hobby than any assumption that the lovely things need any of our human attributes.

Okay rant over. :rolleyes:

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I absolutely agree with you. Very well written!

One of the agreements I had with my husband when he started his snake collection was that the rats were CO2 to death or fed live. I've seen the horrible things the local reptile store does to the poor little things when someone comes in asking for a dead feeder. I personally think our rats are very well taken care of for the duration of their stay and much better off than being in a pet store or running wild.

I never really think rats are to cute, but those are pretty darn cute! Love it! :P

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Originally Posted by Isis

I'm wondering if his fuzzy rats are going to be hairless. I saw them today and they look young enough to lose what hair they have. :confused: Who knows, my little sis has a blue hooded hairless but I can't remember if it had that much hair when she got it as a baby.

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I'm afraid I don't have any dalmations, to be honest, I prefer selfs and berks, and the occasionaly full stripe hooded. I'm a fan of color. :)

This is what I was referring to when I said fuzzy.

http://ratbehavior.org/CoatTypes.htm#Fuzzy

I don't know anymore about it except that little blurb. Becky would know better than me.

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Originally Posted by pythontricker

I never really think rats are to cute, but those are pretty darn cute! Love it! :P

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:D I'm glad you think they're cute! I'm biased, but I think they are cute too! Bentley likes me, but Lotus squeaks when I touch her :( Of course Kitty and Mercedes love to be held.

The most fun I've had with my rats is around Halloween :D I had Kitty in the pocket of my hoodie and when the kids came up to get candy she would crawl out and greet them. The moms would run away screaming and say "DON'T YOU DARE TOUCH THAT THING!"

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"Too late mom! Can we get one?!" :rofl:

I will not comment on the kooks... except to say one thing...

Humas are stupid... forget them. A little quote from my dad to you. Feel free to use it as you see fit. :)

Good luck with the rats, raising and breeding rats is fun. I know, I need more hobbies, but they are the best. And a litter of fuzzy cute pups... I mean... AWWWWWW! Cute!

They are still food, but man they are fun.

Good luck with it, and it seems like you really respect your rats, which anyone that breeds I think needs to keep that perspective.

Bruce

I am with you on the dalmatians! I want some too, but no luck :(

Uh oh... Baby pics! They JUST opened their eyes today. :)

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...s/IMG_3273.jpg

And a few other pics I liked for good measure. ;)

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ats/bboys5.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...s/wk1_lit2.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...s/IMG_3616.jpg


Bunch of girls being moved during cleaning day :) (excuse my head o' hair)

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...s/IMG_3250.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...s/IMG_3251.jpg

Gack....Connie, is that a dumbo siamese I seee in the last pic?!?! I want I want!!! I also like the rat that is in the middle of the beige and the black babie in the first pic.:D

Himalayan dumbo! :D

Cuteness!!!

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Originally Posted by onebreitgirl

I am with you on the dalmatians! I want some too, but no luck :(

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No kidding! I'm having no luck at all..... :(

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Uh oh... Baby pics! They JUST opened their eyes today. :)

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Great pictures! Soooo cute!

Ok... first off, GREAT post there Joanna! I totally agree...people anthropomorphise their pets WAY too often and then get all worked up when you try to keep the natural order.
I have kept rats as pets before and adore them...but have no compunction feeding them off to my beloved snakes. Why? Because it's nature. I talk to my animals on a regular basis, but not stupid baby talk...I do it to soothe and calm them, since it's the TONE not the words that count. Yes, even with snakes, but then it's the vibration.
People are nuts. They either feel the need to destroy and dominate all creatures because 'humans are superior' OR they have to turn the animals into tiny humans to justify their love for them! Mega sigh! Why the heck can't people just accept the other life forms of this world and get on with it?? Sorry...personal peeve of mine.

Connie - those little ones are SWEET! I love that little blue on the brown fabric, and the cream hooded and Himalayan dumbo are adorable!

Isis - that Halloween story is Precious! I love freaking out the parents probably more than the kids. :D I'll have to try something like that one year...

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Himalayan dumbo! :D

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Gah. Uber cuteness for sure. I want one

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Originally Posted by Argentra

Isis - that Halloween story is Precious! I love freaking out the parents probably more than the kids. :D I'll have to try something like that one year...

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Oh it was great fun! You could hear the kids begging their moms for a pet rat!

I even had one lady that acutally RAN away from our house and across the street :8:

I remember years ago (far to many to publically admit to) when I was single. I had a couple of female rats as pets. Normally I'd take them out in the morning for some attention. One of them liked to hang out in the pocket of my terry cloth robe, her sister liked to sit on my shoulder.

Well I had forgotten the cable guy was due to arrive to install the cable for my tv that morning and when the doorbell went off I just never thought of my little rattie buddies. I guess I nearly gave the poor guy a heart attack when he's standing there discussing my cable installation and two inquisitive rats come out to check him out - one from my pocket, one from underneath my long hair! LOL

It all turned out well actually as once he got over his initial shock, he mentioned that his own sister had rats as pets when they were kids. :)

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

I remember years ago (far to many to publically admit to) when I was single. I had a couple of female rats as pets. Normally I'd take them out in the morning for some attention. One of them liked to hang out in the pocket of my terry cloth robe, her sister liked to sit on my shoulder.

Well I had forgotten the cable guy was due to arrive to install the cable for my tv that morning and when the doorbell went off I just never thought of my little rattie buddies. I guess I nearly gave the poor guy a heart attack when he's standing there discussing my cable installation and two inquisitive rats come out to check him out - one from my pocket, one from underneath my long hair! LOL

It all turned out well actually as once he got over his initial shock, he mentioned that his own sister had rats as pets when they were kids. :)

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:rofl: that is hilarious!


Lotus, my black hooded is getting huge!!! :D She should be due any day now! Yesterday was the 21st day mark (when I put her with Bentley). I'm uber excited! She's made the most strange looking nest.