Market crashers

Why is it that everything is going up in price,gas,food,ect.,while at the same time I see people lowering the price on thier animals? It makes no sense to me.:confused:
I guess its just supply and demand. More small breeders(like me) flooding the market with pastels,spiders pins,ect. I understand that. But even recessive's have come down quite a bit in the last year.

Because when you're in a "hobby" market that has a lot of small breeders that CAN and DO sometimes carry a bit of weight in market pricing... the hobby seems to be the first thing that goes when the economy is taking a crap and people need that money to spend on necessary living expenses.

But I agree, and Larry and BT said it best, we're paying more to care for these animals, should they not be increasing in value?

As far as the recessive market, we're talking about morphs that have been out there for a handful of years now, plenty of time to spread them around...they're bound to drop also as they come into that more affordable range.

I really do think morphs like albinos will hit a plateau in price. Between 07 and 08 I noticed that albinos didn't drop all to drastically.

Dave I wouldn't blame it on the small breeders particularily. There's been some big players that played hell with the BP market in the last year or so.

I figure it this way, why mess up a market you yourself want to be part of just to make a fast buck. It's not like me holding a snake until I get what I consider an appropriate price for it is devaluing that snake. Every day it's here it's eating, growing, representing the quality of it's genetics and becoming I figure even more interesting for a buyer to purchase as it matures. So I spend some cash on feeding and housing it while I wait for the right buyer. I'd rather do that then screw up a market, and my friends in it, just to quickly line my own pockets.

Big time or small time breeders - I don't think it matters really. For me and my family what matters is the value we personally place on these snakes and the value of our time, care and years of planning to produce a hatchling. If a person sees them as only scaley dollar signs, then I think some very poor long term decisions get made. You have to know your bottom line, that's only smart business sense but for me anyways, that bottom line cannot be the driving force in why we ever decided to breed or sell a snake in the first place.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Dave I wouldn't blame it on the small breeders particularily. There's been some big players that played hell with the BP market in the last year or so.

I figure it this way, why mess up a market you yourself want to be part of just to make a fast buck. It's not like me holding a snake until I get what I consider an appropriate price for it is devaluing that snake. Every day it's here it's eating, growing, representing the quality of it's genetics and becoming I figure even more interesting for a buyer to purchase as it matures. So I spend some cash on feeding and housing it while I wait for the right buyer. I'd rather do that then screw up a market, and my friends in it, just to quickly line my own pockets.

Big time or small time breeders - I don't think it matters really. For me and my family what matters is the value we personally place on these snakes and the value of our time, care and years of planning to produce a hatchling. If a person sees them as only scaley dollar signs, then I think some very poor long term decisions get made. You have to know your bottom line, that's only smart business sense but for me anyways, that bottom line cannot be the driving force in why we ever decided to breed or sell a snake in the first place.

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Well said. I agree 100%. I have not sold any snakes. I would like to keep them all.:D. However,it would be nice to at least make enough to pay for the rat food.;)

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Dave I wouldn't blame it on the small breeders particularily. There's been some big players that played hell with the BP market in the last year or so.

I figure it this way, why mess up a market you yourself want to be part of just to make a fast buck. It's not like me holding a snake until I get what I consider an appropriate price for it is devaluing that snake. Every day it's here it's eating, growing, representing the quality of it's genetics and becoming I figure even more interesting for a buyer to purchase as it matures. So I spend some cash on feeding and housing it while I wait for the right buyer. I'd rather do that then screw up a market, and my friends in it, just to quickly line my own pockets.

Big time or small time breeders - I don't think it matters really. For me and my family what matters is the value we personally place on these snakes and the value of our time, care and years of planning to produce a hatchling. If a person sees them as only scaley dollar signs, then I think some very poor long term decisions get made. You have to know your bottom line, that's only smart business sense but for me anyways, that bottom line cannot be the driving force in why we ever decided to breed or sell a snake in the first place.

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I totally agree. I mean think about it, when those eggs start hatching do you think of the money that your getting? NO! Your thinking about how beautiful those babies that you worked SO hard for are, and how amazing the moment is.

I don't want to breed in the future for money. Money is of course a nice + after all your hard work, but the experience is worth millions to me. I love these animals, not because I want to make some money, but because I want to see if I can assist in creation of new beautiful creatures that thrive.

But just because money isn't that important to me doesn't mean I'll lower the prices insanely! I will watch the market, and attempt to contribute my amount to stabilization.

I think its pretty simple... there are many breeders out there that dont want to hold back 10 snakes because they cant sell em... easy fix... drop the price to where people will bite at em and away we go... This goes hand in hand with the "selective breeding" post... Many of the snakes that are way underpriced are at the bottom of the quality scale.

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Originally Posted by Dave763

Why is it that everything is going up in price,gas,food,ect.,while at the same time I see people lowering the price on thier animals? It makes no sense to me.:confused:

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there are several reasons, but this is a hobby and this is just fun money for a lot of people. as people have less disposable income, breeders will be forced to drop prices in my opinion. most people i know that are into snakes are not wealthy by any means... me included. :O

on the flip side, the actual market aspect of this whole hobby does have a bubble and it will pop, just like the housing market - that i can guarantee you. especially when most people that pay big bucks for snakes have intentions of breeding, rather than just collecting. :gj:

I don't breed, but here's my opinion for the 1/2 cent it is worth...

As much as we love snakes fact of the matter is that they are pretty close to the very bottom of importance and things we need to have. Innumerable things come before them which means that I have a great number of other stuff to spend money on before I will buy snakes. For instance gas, food, health insurance, rent/mortgage, household bills, taking care of the current animals I have. Everything else seems to keep going up in price (especially gas). Snakes just get the short end of the stick out of necessity.

Now seems like a good time for those who are interested in breeding in the future to get a few nicer morphs at lower prices because eventually the market will pick backup and the prices on snakes will rise again.

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Originally Posted by jknudson

Because when you're in a "hobby" market that has a lot of small breeders that CAN and DO sometimes carry a bit of weight in market pricing... the hobby seems to be the first thing that goes when the economy is taking a crap and people need that money to spend on necessary living expenses.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by jknudson

But I agree, and Larry and BT said it best, we're paying more to care for these animals, should they not be increasing in value?

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This sounds good at first, but maybe Larry and BT forgot their economics - Ball pythons aren't a commodity. They are "normal" goods. As people make more money, they demand more of them. As people make less money, they demand less of them. Combine that with the increased supply, and you've got a significant price drop.

I'd also argue that with the cost of energy, food, etc, going up, people have less money to put into housing, feeding, and breeding the animals, so the whole "breeder's value" in some of the animals could be going down as well.

Some great food for thought here. I'm not a breeder but I have a considerable amount of money (for me) tied up in snakes. I accept that I may never make a dime from breeding BP's, and in fact, they will continue to cost me much more money each year to keep them warm and fed. If I can recover just a little of my costs I would be very happy. But the bottom line for me is that when the US dollar finally tanks, at least I will have some cool snakes to play with.

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Originally Posted by Dave763

Why is it that everything is going up in price,gas,food,ect.,while at the same time I see people lowering the price on thier animals? It makes no sense to me.:confused:
I guess its just supply and demand. More small breeders(like me) flooding the market with pastels,spiders pins,ect. I understand that. But even recessive's have come down quite a bit in the last year.

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People need gas, food, electric, etc. People don't need ball pythons...

Our wonderful president that has done so much for our market already will improve things soon. I mean after all look how great things are improving!! :O I imagine alot of the small time breeders got into it for the same reason as I am getting into it. There are some really pretty morphs out there that I would love to have. But they are just to expensive. So why not buy some hets and breed your own. I imagine alot of the people that breed small time do that but when they start selling their surplus and they make a few extra dollars it gets exciting. here is money in your pocket for doing something you love. Who wouldnt want to make a living doing something they are pasionate about. The thing you have to remember alot of the small time breeders are in it for a short time and either they go broke or they finaly got the morphs they always wanted and have no reason to breed anymore.

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Originally Posted by Sloburn

Our wonderful president that has done so much for our market already will improve things soon. I mean after all look how great things are improving!!

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I'm no Bush fan, but a president can do very little by himself/herself to affect the economy. Our goverment in general has failed us there. :salute: Now concerning the BP market, I think the market is headed south. If you are interested in BPs as a pet it is a great time to buy, but if you are trying to talk people out of making their mortgage, car, or other important payments *You are fighting a loosing battle*. I myself am planning on purchasing some BPs at Daytona this year. I have a set price that I think is fair. If I cant find the snake I'm looking for, for the price I'm willing to pay, I will just have to wait. I think breeders are going to have to come to grips with the fact that people are going to cut their hobbies off before life's required bills. :colbert:

no to mention bush has zero power right now...except veto. the house and senate are to blame for 99% of our problems. and no, i don't like bush either.

I think most people forget about is simple supply and demand. Supply goes up, prices go down. More and more people are producing morphs now that used to fetch a high price. More of those morphs means prices will fall.

Now granted, there are some who purposefully tried to crash the market (Morph King for instance), but a lot of it is an increase in supply. But a lot of it is also the economy as well.

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Originally Posted by Dave763

Well said. I agree 100%. I have not sold any snakes. I would like to keep them all.:D. However,it would be nice to at least make enough to pay for the rat food.;)

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That's my thoughts too!

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Originally Posted by blueapplepaste

I think most people forget about is simple supply and demand. Supply goes up, prices go down. More and more people are producing morphs now that used to fetch a high price. More of those morphs means prices will fall.

Now granted, there are some who purposefully tried to crash the market (Morph King for instance), but a lot of it is an increase in supply. But a lot of it is also the economy as well.

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I agree with you for the most part. I think that the it goes beyond simple supply and demand models. I think that the BP market is a free market. A snake is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If a breeder thinks their snake is worth $5000 dollars and nobody is willing to pay that, then it isn't worth it. If the breeder decides to keep the snake, then that just adds to their overhead - not to mention there will be more of the same snakes produced next year which means the price will go down even further. I think the days of crazy prices of BPs is over, can you picture people taking out second or third mortgages on their already under valued homes for the next "hot morph". I think the vast majority of people that buy BPs are for pets, which means for them its about enjoyment of keeps snakes and the friendships they develop with other likeminded people. The people that are willing thinking of paying crazy prices for some of the morphs are holding on to sinking ship!:tears:

It fascinates me how similar these market talk posts are. We are in a recession but corporate profits are up. The rich keep getting richer and the poor, poorer.

What does this all mean? Hell if I know. Only time will tell.

I am getting in to breeding this next season. I am planning to sell morphs I breed for roughly what I paid for mine, or just a little less.

The simple fact is that when there is a rare new morph it will be worth more. When it has been around awhile and there are enough breeders with that morph available to meet demand, the price will stabilize to a true market determined price.

For instance Pastels I believe have nearly stabilized in price. Spiders are still high, but coming down. I believe most morphs will eventually stabilize at a realistic price.

I really don't think this is a problem. It just means people trying to make a quick buck won't get into this hobby. It will be left to those who truly care about breeding. Not saying theres not going to be money to be made. There will always be new morphs, and the morphs that are harder to produce. Those will naturally cost more.

Those are my thoughts. :D

J.Biz

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Originally Posted by J.Bissell

For instance Pastels I believe have nearly stabilized in price. Spiders are still high, but coming down. I believe most morphs will eventually stabilize at a realistic price.

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Spiders aren't high at all - they've come way down from just two years ago, even from last year. They are very affordable now (comparative to where they were).

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Originally Posted by FloridaKingSnake

I think the vast majority of people that buy BPs are for pets, which means for them its about enjoyment of keeps snakes and the friendships they develop with other likeminded people. The people that are willing thinking of paying crazy prices for some of the morphs are holding on to sinking ship!:tears:

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I actually think the opposite. Now, I could just be completely wrong, but the market majority to me seems to be breeders selling to breeders... or better yet, those that want to breed soon.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I actually think the opposite. Now, I could just be completely wrong, but the market majority to me seems to be breeders selling to breeders... or better yet, those that want to breed soon.

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It looks like a fairly equally mixed bag to me. Judging by the posts on this site I think that it is tilted slightly in favor of the 1 or 2 snake pet owners that mainly have normals and slightly less than half of the owners having many morphs and a handful of people in between the two. If you frequent the shows you will run into the Morph crowd. But many here have bought their snakes in a pet store and many can afford and enjoy normals but don't have the big bucks for morphs.

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I actually think the opposite. Now, I could just be completely wrong, but the market majority to me seems to be breeders selling to breeders... or better yet, those that want to breed soon.

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I think there is a lot of truth in that.(pyramid scheme) I also think there are lots of people who want to keep one as a pet.
As prices fall it will make some morphs more likely to show up as pets.
Recessives and all the really cool double recessive stuff will stay high longer.
Where or when prices stabilize, is anyone's guess. It is interesting to me that prices on certain breeds of dogs for example, have remained fairly stable for many years.
Thats because, that no matter how much we love our snakes, they will never be a mainstream type of pet, like a cat or dog.

I can't help but thinking every time this argument is brought up... were these morphs ever really worth that much money to begin with, or are the prices beginning to reflect a more realistic value?? They're snakes, people. Those that have been in this hobby for a long time have come to expect these bloated prices and have seen big breeders become wealthy by acquiring and becoming one of the first to mass-produce these morphs. Now that the hobby has grown so much, why shouldn't these outrageous prices be dropping as the hobby has grown over the years and so many hobbyists have started breeding in their homes? And sometimes I wonder if some of the complaints aren't coming from people who've just gotten into the hobby and are disappointed that they can't become the next Ralph Davis and oh boy it does really take a long time to grow these snakes up, and wow I had no idea how expensive these things are to feed. Look out there... There's still a huge future in crazy double, triple recessives and I think selective breeding is going to make a huge difference between just ok morphs and ones that pop. Look at KS for five minutes and you can see a pastel that barely looks like a pastel and one that screams yellow. If you have dedication and it really means something in your life, it shouldn't matter. But maybe the people that depend on it for income may not be able to do it for the long haul.

It's been said many times....they are worth what ever someone is willing to pay.
Try to buy a pastel clown or a lavender albino. Or on the other side of the coin, look how cheap you can pick up a pastel.

I just want to sell a few snakes, so I can offset the cost of a hobby that I enjoy very much.
Is that a bad thing?

Keeping reptiles is not a "mainstream hobby". So comparing it to the dog and cat industry is not realistic, there is nearly as broad a market for snakes. I could care less how much a pastel clown or a lavender albino costs. And neither does the average customer in BP market. The only people who do are the ones who think they can reproduce them to make a profit. Yet by the time they raise them up to reproduce the morph is not worth nearly what they paided for them. The BP market reminds me of a game of chess, the people spending all this money on pastel clowns or lavender albinos etc... have already lost the game. By the time they are reproducing these morphs the big breeders are already on to the next thing. Most breeders are playing with pawns will the big breeders are using rooks, knights, and bishops.

Their are a lot of ways of looking at the overall picture. A lot of opinions will exist based on the individuals economic condition. Those people being squeezed currently are making tough decisions and some thought getting into breeding ball pythons would help their current economic condition only to discover they are in over their heads and prices are dropping. These people further react by selling for less causing the further collapse of ball python morph prices. I don't think any market is going to get through the current economy without feeling some negative affects other than liquor, beer, and cigarette markets as these markets have always tended to out perform the markets in the long run during a recession or depression. A lot of smaller breeders that depend on income from breeding to keep breeding are going to need to bail out. Some of the larger breeders are probably going to have to tighten their belts as well. The hobby breeder that has another job that pays well enough as to not feel the economic pinch is in the best position since even if they do not sell any ball pythons nothing is going to change around their house since they already consider the cost of keeping the ball pythons a pet luxury that they would pay anyways.

Bottom line is:
1. Those people looking for a ball python as a pet are in an excellent position this year to get a deal on a morph for a pet.
2. Those people who over extended thinking they could catch up will find financial hard times ahead.
3. Those hobby breeders can sit back and let the market do as it wants while they dink around.

While it is true that snakes are not as main stay pets as dogs or cats, you have to remember that most people who have one snake is more likely to get more than dog and cat owners.

Consider this also, with the exit of alot of mid level breeders - who will be supporting the market? The pet owner will. Someone previously posted that they think that the big breeders are still spending a lot on the new morphs. I disagree, if you know any of the big breeders they usually are trading into the other morphs that they were not previously involved in(Very little cash exchanges hands). I think the falling prices are good for the BP market, It gets rid of the "fair weather" breeders and provides a much more stable base for the market :DThe Pet Ower:D

Supply and demand folks.
And spiders are not expensive at all!
If you have been watching the markets for the last 4-5 years prices drop as availibility increases. This is why co-doms go down much faster than recessives. It is what it is.

A little late in this thread, but "supply and demand" is only the big picture here. The "pet market" for morphs is very VERY small. The more rare the morph, the greater the odds potential buyers intend on breeding it and selling the offspring. While pet owners make up a large portion of the ball python market as a whole, the overwhelming majority are owners of relatively affordable snakes (normals, and to a lesser degree, pastels, spiders etc). The average guy or gal isn't going to spend $2000 on a pet snake.

As someone mentioned above... it's a bit of a pyramid right now. The big breeder sells his morph for $10,000 to the medium breeder. The medium breeder sells his morph for $5000 to the small breeder. It goes on and on and on, until morph prices finally drop to the point that Joe Schmo who has no interest in breeding is willing to pay the price.

So if you are just getting into the breeding market, keep your expectations low. Look at the prices corns go for to get an idea where the market may eventually head.

Yeah, every time I ask about a snake price at all, almost every time they assume I'm trying to breed it. I guess a large percentage of the reptile owning community are also breeders and we're all breeding and selling to each other. There is almost no "end consumer" like a normal market.

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Originally Posted by Dave763

Why is it that everything is going up in price,gas,food,ect.,while at the same time I see people lowering the price on thier animals? It makes no sense to me.:confused:
I guess its just supply and demand. More small breeders(like me) flooding the market with pastels,spiders pins,ect. I understand that. But even recessive's have come down quite a bit in the last year.

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Its the same in the uk.

Didnt help that Bob clarke came over seeling a lod of his for dirt cheap.... putting uk breeders totally out of buisness i should imagine.. I will always support local breeders first.
Cant entirely blame bob... if uk people werent so tight... they would buy from their own first
I cant believe how cheap
the morphs have gone, i dont really agree with it either... As with all things in life... theres the things everyone can afford... but its still nice to ghave things you cant... gives you something to work towards or dream after if that makes sense

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

A little late in this thread, but "supply and demand" is only the big picture here. The "pet market" for morphs is very VERY small. The more rare the morph, the greater the odds potential buyers intend on breeding it and selling the offspring. While pet owners make up a large portion of the ball python market as a whole, the overwhelming majority are owners of relatively affordable snakes (normals, and to a lesser degree, pastels, spiders etc). The average guy or gal isn't going to spend $2000 on a pet snake.

As someone mentioned above... it's a bit of a pyramid right now. The big breeder sells his morph for $10,000 to the medium breeder. The medium breeder sells his morph for $5000 to the small breeder. It goes on and on and on, until morph prices finally drop to the point that Joe Schmo who has no interest in breeding is willing to pay the price.

So if you are just getting into the breeding market, keep your expectations low. Look at the prices corns go for to get an idea where the market may eventually head.

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That's exactly how I explained it to someone the other day. It's very much like a Pyramid Scheme. But I also think the market is headed to be more Pet Owner-friendly than Breeder friendly. I am one of the hobby breeders, so I can sit back & watch what happens. I would never dream of contributing to the price decreases, but I am also realistic & understand that BP morphs are going to drop in price. & those breeders with strategic business plans, interesting projects (such as triple hets, etc.), excellent customer service, & healthy stock, are the only ones that will remain in the game as the BP breeding craze starts to level off.

What this means is that pet owners who are now restricted to owning only normals, will be able to pick from Pastels, Spiders, Pinstripes, etc.

& let's face it, BP breeding is not for everyone. It is labor-intensive, & somewhat financially draining if you don't have the resources.

Its only going to get worse with the economy the way it is. The rich are going to get richer (buying morphs for dirt cheap and then breeding them) and the poor are going to get poorer (a lot of money invested and will have to sell all their babies cheap and possibly their breeders just to pay the bills)

I have no knowledge of the US market, except from what I see in the forums. So I may be tottaly wrong.

But, from a distance, it seems that BP morphs are like weekly newspapers (where one day in a newpaper = one year in BP breeding): everybody wants them in the first day; a few still reads them in the next 2, and after 3-4 days, people are just waiting for the next edition.
And it looks like the "daily newspaper" era is coming...

And I still don´t understand if the breeders are responding to this or contributiing to this with what seems to be an obsession to create new morphs.

If the breeders create 5-6 (or 10-15, who knows) new morphs every year, the breeders are decreasing the price of all the other morphs (thus decreasing the value of their own stock). But probably, there is no way to stop that wagon, because most likely that´s what the market-that-can-afford-morphs ultimately wants...

And how can you keep up with the hundreds of BP moprhs??

People don´t seem to go for the nicest snakes but for the newest morphs, no matter how they look. Some people don´t buy animals anymore, they "increase collections".

I think this sums it up:

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Originally Posted by jhall1468

Look at the prices corns go for to get an idea where the market may eventually head.

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On a curious note, the same is being discussed by the (US) Chondro breeders. And they are looking at the BP market...

One thing I think is a problem, is all the ugly morphs that are being made. more and more people are getting into the hobby just to breed, and are buying the cheapest/ dirt worthy snakes. These are reproducing and less and less high quality snakes are being hatched out. I just spent $700 on a 08 male spider, I did not even bother to ask what he wanted for it, and offered that price, because I wanted it that bad because of the quality. Some people call me crazy for it ( you know who you are:P) but I think thats what a good looking spider is worth. If You look into my collection you will not find the cheapest/brownest morph I could find, you will find the best of the best, which everyone should do but they do not. Selectively breed people! The better a morph looks, the longer it will hold its value imo. Just because you find a cheap adult female that is ugly as sin does not make it a good deal, because you will regret it when you cannot sell your ugly baby's. I have more to say to this, but I have to go!

:twocents:

Originally Posted by jhall1468
Look at the prices corns go for to get an idea where the market may eventually head.

Could be wrong, but I don't think this will ever happen. In my opinion ball pythons will never be close to being as cheap as corn snakes. Reason I say this is ball pythons have smaller clutches, and cost a lot more money to make when you factor in everything.

time will tell i guess.

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

I just spent $700 on a 08 male spider, I did not even bother to ask what he wanted for it, and offered that price, because I wanted it that bad because of the quality.

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$700! :O

That's what they were going for back in 2006!!

you could have gotten 1.2 or 1.3 spiders for $700 in todays market!!

You could have gotten a lesser and a spider and made lesser bees for $700!


But either way... you got the animal "you" wanted which is the most important thing... I bet alot of people are still wishing they got $700 for their spiders though... :P

It's all about Supply and Demand...

Right now there is a bigger than ever demand... but at the same time a HUGE supply of base morphs.

Right now everything is ALL about QUALITY... and your 2-3-4 Gene animals.

As far as these threads titled "Market Crashers" or
"the sky is falling"... nothing is falling and the market isn't crashing. Right now the market is bigger than ever and breeders still cannot produce enough animals to sell year over year.

Just ask any of the "Big Dogs" :)

One thing to keep in mind.....as all the "new" morphs take hold in collections the old standbys will fade out some, then as time moves on the oldies will become the top dollar morphs again as all the breeders moved on to the "newer" and "better" morphs. Some value loss is to be expected anyway. Its only worth a ton of money if only a handful are available, supply and demand, as already stated.

The buyer sets the price anyway, you wanna see the morph prices go up, be willing to pay more.

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Originally Posted by 7serpents

$700! :O

That's what they were going for back in 2006!!

you could have gotten 1.2 or 1.3 spiders for $700 in todays market!!

You could have gotten a lesser and a spider and made lesser bees for $700!


But either way... you got the animal "you" wanted which is the most important thing... I bet alot of people are still wishing they got $700 for their spiders though... :P

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:rolleye2:Im telling you I do crazy things for the morphs I want, and how can you beat this?

http://s454.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=IMG_1636.jpg

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

:rolleye2:Im telling you I do crazy things for the morphs I want, and how can you beat this?

http://s454.photobucket.com/albums/q...t=IMG_1636.jpg

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I agree it's beautiful!! :gj:

As I said... you got the animal that "you" wanted...

Whether you paid $150 or $700... as long as you are happy with it that is all that matters!

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Originally Posted by Nightmare Creatures

The buyer sets the price anyway, you wanna see the morph prices go up, be willing to pay more.

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Exactly and if you want you ask $1k all day long for yb's or pastels... but whether or not you are going to get it is another thing!

Funny looking back a few years ago on the fauna classifieds ads... Yellowbelly's for $13k! Pastels $3k! lol...

now yellowbelly males $125... pastels males $75-$150+

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Originally Posted by 7serpents

Exactly and if you want you ask $1k all day long for yb's or pastels... but whether or not you are going to get it is another thing!

Funny looking back a few years ago on the fauna classifieds ads... Yellowbelly's for $13k! Pastels $3k! lol...

now yellowbelly males $125... pastels males $75-$150+

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I don't think it's funny at all. But that's just me. :confused:

Yeah, one year ago pastels were still out of reach for me, around $500-$1000. I just bought my first at the Daytona show for $100 even, a female too!

Now if the blue eyed leucistics would just drop to about $300...

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Originally Posted by mcavana

Originally Posted by jhall1468
Look at the prices corns go for to get an idea where the market may eventually head.

Could be wrong, but I don't think this will ever happen. In my opinion ball pythons will never be close to being as cheap as corn snakes. Reason I say this is ball pythons have smaller clutches, and cost a lot more money to make when you factor in everything.

time will tell i guess.

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it already has happend... i was at show this weekend and corns were actually selling for more than ball pythons. thats captive bred corns sold for more than captive bred balls. not to mention captive hatched balls selling for even less than those.

it sucks because i could barely sell my ball pythons especially when the majority of people are selling exactly what you are.

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Originally Posted by 7serpents

Exactly and if you want you ask $1k all day long for yb's or pastels... but whether or not you are going to get it is another thing!

Funny looking back a few years ago on the fauna classifieds ads... Yellowbelly's for $13k! Pastels $3k! lol...

now yellowbelly males $125... pastels males $75-$150+

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If you compare the US and European markets... you may still find it funnier.

In Spain, you find 08 Pastels for 600 euros ($1000), Spiders for 700-800 euros (that´s $1120-1200), Mojaves for 850 ($1360) and Pinstripes and Albinos for 1250 euros ($2000).

In Germany, just about the above prices minus (in some cases )100-150 euros.

Yellowbellies in Spain ? say what ?? You may get lucky in Germany but I have no idea what the price would be

So, US breeders, come to Europe !

It's pretty bad when I just saw ads for YB's for $79.99 and Enchis for $450. Pastels and YB's seem to be the new normals.

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Originally Posted by waltah!

Pastels and YB's seem to be the new normals.

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I think in a few years, they will be. Everyone will start to have pastels as their "normal" breeders - pastel thrown in cleans up pretty much everything, so it makes sense.

There is a Sable Champagne on KS for $4500 :O

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=635678