Sometimes, vets can be ...

So my little husky pup (well, HUGE husky pup- almost 40lbs female and still a pup!) is just one week over 5months now, and has a problem. Her two upper canines had both broke when she was a "littler" pup (I dont know how), and we were just waiting for them to come out on thei own. Well, both teeth are still there, broken, gray- and pushed out sideways because her adult teeth have completely come in!

So I call the vet about an hour ago to tell him that I think we will have to get them pulled, and he agrees- but ONLY if I will get her spayed next month. Now, I'm not 100% sure whether or not I want to breed her, if not, she will be spayed- if I do, she will be bred once in a few years, and then be spayed. Wither way, she will be spayed, as I exsplained to the vet. He said NO, thats its a 'policy' of their clinic to have all animals spayed ASAP... Sooo I told him that his is MY dog, not his, she is in perfect health, nothing wrong with her, and it is up to me to get her spayed or not.

Than he said he refuses to microchip her or pull the teeth (since she should be sedadted for both of those, too) unless I agree to get her spayed. So I called another vet and set up an appointment with them.

It just makes me PO'd that he had the nerve to tell me what to do with MY dog! My moms been going to him for years, I just started because I liked how he worked with her dog, but of course my mom had no intensions of breeding her dog (too aggressive).

Has this ever happend to any of you? Sorry this is so long, its just that though I think it is good for a vet to encourage people to spay and neuter, they shouldent say "Well its my way or I;m not doing it"... But maybe thats just my opinion?

i have never had a vet tell us we had to get our dogs spayed...

but we left our vet monday and have started going to a new one because my two dogs got in a fight and the smaller one sufferd the cut...
so we brought her to the vet and waited for 3 hours, were told we had to wait another 1.5 hours, and at that point a vet hadnt even seen the dogs leg...

so yeah, i feel your pain...
sucks for him that he doenst get paid to pull some teeth...

GR. I guess he has the right to tell you that and you have the right to choose another vet! I do not like it when vets get militant about spaying and neutering. Some breeders are doing a good job. Some do the health clearances and pay attention to temperament and conformation and function of the dog.

Oh well. Good luck at the new vet.

In my opinion, the vet has the right to state how he wants to conduct his business and you have every right to tell him you think that's stupid and take your business elsewhere, telling him why and that you'll tell everyone you know how you disagree with his practices.

no it hasnt happened to me... i do understand there is terrible over population of pets and no real good reason to breed more of them but thats another subject. Unfortunately for you if he owns the office then it up to him to make his own policies and you would need to abide by his rules/laws/exc however annoying they may be. If you dont like his practices you would obviously need to go elsewhere. i personally have never had that happen to me though.

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Originally Posted by cassandra

In my opinion, the vet has the right to state how he wants to conduct his business and you have every right to tell him you think that's stupid and take your business elsewhere, telling him why and that you'll tell everyone you know how you disagree with his practices.

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I'm really confused with what you said. D:

That slightly angers me. My dog is not spayed because we might want to breed her and it's expensive and pointless to spay her really. (she doesn't go outside or get out and she's really small.)
Plus I have a friend of mine who has purebred Whipits and is permitted from fixing any of her dogs because they are show dogs and may be chosen to breed.

It's not the vets place.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

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It's not the vets place.

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imo his practice, his place.. dont like it go elsewhere, as blunt as that is its the truth, no different then going with att, hating their service and switching to sprint, dont like it go somewhere else.

If you do research, it isnt just about pet over population, its about the health of the dog too.. seriously, look it up. I worked at a vets office for many years and cant tell you how many times we did spays on females because they were impregnated and the owners didnt want a litter, or spays on teenage dogs because they were full of cancer caused by not being spayed. They are more prone to cancers and tumors when not spayed as you will read.. good enough reason IMO to spay.

Unless you have some grand champion show dog there is no reason to breed your pet. My mom wanted to breed her male yorkie but he was not the ideal for the breed. he was a lovely dog but confirmation, size, exc were not perfect for the breed. Needless to say he was neutered two months ago. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but if more animals were "fixed" pet over population wouldnt be what it is today.

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Originally Posted by ADEE

imo his practice, his place.. dont like it go elsewhere, as blunt as that is its the truth, no different then going with att, hating their service and switching to sprint, dont like it go somewhere else.

If you do research, it isnt just about pet over population, its about the health of the dog too.. seriously, look it up. I worked at a vets office for many years and cant tell you how many times we did spays on females because they were impregnated and the owners didnt want a litter, or spays on teenage dogs because they were full of cancer caused by not being spayed. They are more prone to cancers and tumors when not spayed as you will read.. good enough reason IMO to spay.

Unless you have some grand champion show dog there is no reason to breed your pet. My mom wanted to breed her male yorkie but he was not the ideal for the breed. he was a lovely dog but confirmation, size, exc were not perfect for the breed. Needless to say he was neutered two months ago. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but if more animals were "fixed" pet over population wouldnt be what it is today.

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Whatever the argument is, and whatever the right thing is, it's still not the vets decision.
I think suggestion is fine, but necessity is a bit wrong. If there's no other vet around (if you live in the middle of nowhere) it's almost like cornering the market.
I'd prefer to have people that I know breed dogs and get puppies and sell them rather than buy them from a petstore that originated from puppy mills.

I agree with not getting puppy mill puppies, but if you want a certain dog and will not adopt from a shelter you can get any dog you want flown into you from a breeder who has show quality dogs. If not there are rescues all over the place that are breed specific. such as dachshund rescue, basset rescue, exc.

As for the vet, as i said before.. its annoying but totally 100% his right to be that way if he owns the practice. Im sure in his mind hes making a conscious effort to help limit further over population, i actually commend him for sticking to his guns, takes a big person to care about their cause so much they will even turn away business to keep it going.

its really not the vets decision any way you look at it.

the dog shouldnt get fixed at 5 months any way, she is to young,

he should have told her that he would have done it if she agreed to have her dog spayed by his office/clinic what not.

i agree with him being hard core about getting dogs fixed, but im sorry it really isnt his place to tell her he wont put a chip in the dog, or pull teeth unless the dog gets fixed at the same time.
neither of my dogs are spayed, there is no need.

even if she doesnt breed, she shouldnt be forced to get the dog fixed.

My dog was micro chipped with no anesthesia; I don't understand why your vet would suggest that.

I am glad that you are looking for another vet. IMO, your previous vet was out of line. However, as was mentioned, his/her clinic = his/her rules. Plain and simple.

both my moms dogs were chipped while they were awake.. it is uncomfortable but doable.. i dont think its worth putting a dog under anesthesia for a microchip but if shes already going to be under getting her teeth fixed then yes, chip her while shes out.

While you are correct in going to another vet.
I have to disagree with two comments made by people

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That slightly angers me. My dog is not spayed because we might want to breed her and it's expensive and pointless to spay her really. (she doesn't go outside or get out and she's really small.)
Plus I have a friend of mine who has purebred Whipits and is permitted from fixing any of her dogs because they are show dogs and may be chosen to breed.

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AND

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neither of my dogs are spayed, there is no need.

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THERE is a need to have your dog spayed or nuetered.
You can get cancers, and people's dogs will come around when your dog is in heat. EVEN if you have a high fence OR a kennel. Our sharpei mix came into being when a neighborhood lab climbed a 6 foot fence, then an 8 foot kennel fence to get to her mom, a sharpei.
Also take a look at these reasons, found on a normal web site.

Top Reasons to Spay or Neuter Your Dog or Cat

-Prevents future heat cycles and blood stains on carpet and furniture - Heat cycles or estrus cycles can be messy, by spaying your dog you eliminate this messy cycle.
-No longer attract stray males during heat cycles - Males will no longer be attracted to your female dog or cat after the spay surgery.
-Decreases chances of mammary tumors - If your dog is spayed before the first heat the chances of later developing mammary tumors, or breast cancer, are eliminated and if the surgery is performed before the second heat the chances of later developing mammary tumors are greatly reduced.
-Eliminates the chances of developing a uterine infection - Dogs and cats can develop an infection in their uterus called a pyometra that is life threatening, and in many cases requires emergency surgery to remove the infected uterus. If you spay your pet the risk of developing a pyometra is eliminated.
-Eliminates the chances of developing testicular cancer - When your pet is neutered the testicles are removed eliminating the chances of later developing testicular cancer.

While those are all good reasons... I have a hard time believing that a persons choice to not spay or neuter their dog is an instance death sentance like your post made it seem.

Most vets are quacks. They are over priced, anddo things that Arnt neccesary. I have only met one good vet, And he doesn't see dogs... I got fooled into getting my male neutered, he was from a great blood line, and I was going to stud him a few times. They said he had a type of genetic mange, but it was a flea alergie. My 16 year old blue heeled has only been to a vet a few times, to be spayed and a few rabies shots, she's doing just fine!!

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Originally Posted by Montessa Python

THERE is a need to have your dog spayed or nuetered.
You can get cancers, and people's dogs will come around when your dog is in heat. EVEN if you have a high fence OR a kennel. Our sharpei mix came into being when a neighborhood lab climbed a 6 foot fence, then an 8 foot kennel fence to get to her mom, a sharpei..

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where i live, there is no need, k?

we plan on getting them fixed, but we dont have almost $500+ to fix both of them...

but right now we dont worry about it cause any dog that can get close enough to our dogs [male wise] is either fixed, or small enough to seriously understand what kind of power a electric fence for horses feels like... lol

either way, the vet had no reason to tell her [other than it being his clinic] that he wouldnt treat her dog unless she got the dog fixed...

Not spaying or neutering your dog (or cat for that matter) is often an "instant death sentence" for the unwanted puppies and kittens that result. :(

There is a small clinic by me called S.A.N.T.A. - Spay and Neuter Team of Atlanta. It clearly states that you may not use their low costs vaccine program if your animal is not spayed or neutered.

I support their right to deny services if that's what they choose.

I also know that pet overpopulation is a real problem, and there's no need to have a litter of kittens or puppies when so many animals need homes. The homes you find for the puppies, are that many animals in the shelter that lost their chance for a nice home.

I don't think there's any need to get angry with that vet. You did what you should do - find another vet that could and would service you.

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Originally Posted by ChicaPiton519

where i live, there is no need, k?

we plan on getting them fixed, but we dont have almost $500+ to fix both of them...

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There is no private or public humane society in your whole area? They almost always run very low cost spay/neuter clinics a few times per year.

Other than the obvious reasons of unwanted offspring the facts are proven that intact dogs and cats are at much higher risk factors for exactly the diseases spelled out in the above post by Montessa Python. That's scientific fact that if you keep your animal intact you could be allowing them to face illnesses that not only may kill them but in the end could cost you a heck of a lot more in vet bills to try and save them than the original spay or neuter ever would have.

However, as far as this vet you are discussing, their clinic is THEIR business, it's YOUR business if you use them or another vet but you cannot dictate to them, anymore than you want them dictating to you, how they set their clinic standards of care.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

There is no private or public humane society in your whole area? They almost always run very low cost spay/neuter clinics a few times per year.

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huh, idk i dont think there is, but i could be wrong, i will have to look into that.... thanks =]

Eh, I don't think most vets are quacks or that they are anything but people who take care of animals day in and day out. I understand how frustrating it must be to see day after day unwanted cats and dogs and know that they are just dying in shelters.

It's an interesting climate on this forum. I am a member of dog lists and forums and horse lists and forums and people in each group think about breeding quite differently than reptile breeders. Basenji breeders are extremely closed to backyard breeding of any sort and are pretty darned tough on breeders that seem often to be doing a good job. There is a real sense of accountability-- why are you breeding? What good qualities does your stock have? Health, temperament, genetic diversity-- as a whole the breed fancy is really really tough about breeding for the 'right' reasons and breeding ONLY when you have all your ducks in a row.

Horse people are a bit more lenient in general. You'll hear them talk about breeding a mare because they want a baby out of her. Some breeders are super stringent but there are more mellow, breed whatcha want breeders in that group.

Here, I see the most mellow breeding attitudes of all. It may be all related to how many animals are in desperate need of rescue in each group. Ball pythons are NOT filling the humane societies across the country.

So, anyway, I am writing a little book here-- but it is just interesting. As a dog breeder, I would encourage any dog owner to really think long and hard about keeping a dog intact. Keep a dog intact IF that dog has qualities that its breed NEEDS. Another cute dog-- well, let's face it. Cute dogs die every day for lack of homes in this country. Take a look here:
http://www.dogsindanger.com/

I have bred basenjis. Every time it was an ethical battle. Does the world need another basenji? What is this breeding doing for basenjis? I do think my breeding choices were sound (at least at the time). But if it is NOT an ethical battle for you-- maybe you need to think longer and harder. Know what you are doing and really examine your reasons. Breeding more dogs should not be casual. I do not mean to offend anyone-- I have bred dogs and I would do it again. But I hope that anyone thinking of keeping a dog intact will really think very long about the implications of adding to that gene pool and the dogs already out there who need homes.

Jeez--
http://www.dogsindanger.com/memorial.jsp
:( :( :(

zinnia, glad im not the only one who feels the way you do.. I totally understand what your talking about when referencing the horse world, as i myself had a nice little thoroughbred stallion that bred with a couple of my friends mares, made some nice horses... My mentality when it comes to dogs/cats/bunnies are how you feel about breeding dogs..

See, in my post I did state that one way or another, she WILL be spayed. If not in a year or so, then after she has ONE litter of puppies. Also, the whole reason I am not sure if I want to breed her or not is because she is still a puppy- right now she is beautiful and perfect for a sled tam or show ring, but that may change into adult hood. We'll see.
I have people waiting in line for pups from her because of her bloodline and personality, and if not they would stay/come back to me, but that is NOT the reason I want to or will breed her.But it does help me feel better about it :D
A reason I would breed her is if she keeps heading for "perfection", then perhaps I could keep the bloodline going through ONE litter-and keep a pup.
So she may be fixed soon, or she may be fixed in about two 1/2, 3 years, but either way, there is no way she will not be.

I also did say that I think it is GREAT for vets to encourage to spay and neuter. But if its not their dog, then why try to force people? If its your dog, then feel free, but dont make the decision for them yourself. Im going to school to be a vet right now, and from what I've been learning that just doesnt seem like a good thing. Also, he said they didnt practice that, but how can that be true if someone else I know goes there and NONE of her dogs are fixed, and keep them CONSTANT!! The poor dog is 6 and just starting two years ago, since they got the boy dog, ahe had had FOUR litters!! That to me, is wrong.

I just think that everyone is able to hav their own opinion, but in this situation it is the pet owners decision and responsibility- not the vets.

Please know that I am not saying you should or should not spay your dog-- I was responding to the thread direction in general not your exact circumstance. It's a decision to be made seriously, not casually and it sounds like you are thinking about it.

As for the vet, maybe it isn't his place but in a sense, he gets to run his business as he chooses. It may not be good for his business and it may be paternalistic and not the best way to go about things-- for instance if he wants to encourage spay/ neuter, a more educational approach may work better than this heavy handed approach-- but he gets to do it. His business, his rules. And then, for the consumer, you :), you get to decide if you like his business practices and go elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by ChicaPiton519

where i live, there is no need, k?

we plan on getting them fixed, but we dont have almost $500+ to fix both of them...

but right now we dont worry about it cause any dog that can get close enough to our dogs [male wise] is either fixed, or small enough to seriously understand what kind of power a electric fence for horses feels like... lol

either way, the vet had no reason to tell her [other than it being his clinic] that he wouldnt treat her dog unless she got the dog fixed...

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Our SPCA charges around 30 dollars for a spay/neuter. YOu should find one when you do spay them!

wow, that guy would make be mad!

Justin

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Originally Posted by stangs13

Our SPCA charges around 30 dollars for a spay/neuter. YOu should find one when you do spay them!

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This is off-topic from my dog situation- but I wish ours did that! A guy from the street from me got two puppies from the same litter, and said he "didnt have the money" to get at least the male fixed- and they had puppys.. Imbred puppies.. Now, the two little girl puppies (that they kept) AND the mom/sister are about to go into heat, and the guy STILL hasnt gotten his male dog fixed!! I told him finaly that I would pay for it myself (even though he makes $30/hour??). See, to me, THAT is not right! So now I've been looking around at places around here to get his dog fixed, and for all of them its about $70. But I can not sit here and watch that again.

But yeam I do fully believe in spay/neuter, my other dog is spayed, and I am thinking very hard about this for my pup. I have a couple more years to debate with myself, but we will see what happens... And if it does, you will al know because I will be posting pictures of puppys and snakes!! lol