Guess The Morph

Settle a bet for me, please.

What morph is this? (p.s. she's in shed)

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...CIALS013-1.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...CIALS010-1.jpg

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...CIALS012-1.jpg

Well she has the dead on Pied markers, and it doesn't look cinny to me at all.

I'm going to go with,

100% Het Pied or it could perhaps be HRA het Pied... but in all honesty it doesn't look much like the HRA I've seen.

She does have those het pied markers... but I'm not really thinking Hred or cinny.

with a belly like that im thinking less of a nice black back normal and more of a het something... is this a trick question? I voted hetpied.

Well, I have seen normals with het pied markers. Or it could be het pied. Breed her and find out! I voted normal as she "looks" normal.

Voted normal :/

I'd be interested in why some of you that voted chose those particular morphs? Care to share?

Guys don't give up!! This is not one of the easy to determine animals. Markers do not always determine what an animal is. But those markers are there for the sharp eye.

I picked Cinny/Het Pied because of the O patterns on her neck, although it really doesn't look like a classic Cinny to me, but I figure sometimes got to be up besides the het pied marker.

Just a guess but based on the side pattern, the black back and the clear stomach I voted het red. The only thing it was missing IMO was the nose spots.

A few people are correct so far. This is not your regular, "What kind of morph do I have" poll. I know what kind of morph I have.

However, another person disagrees with what my papers clearly determine that I purchased :P. Since I trust the breeder from whom I purchased both her and her mate..I thought I would see if any other "breeders/hobbyists" made that same mistake.

This is a chance to show your stuff!! Do you know your morphs? Do you REALLY?:rofl: Can you pick out the morph among the Normals when the morph doesn't have all the "accepted" markers?

I know what it is as well...

But I am not extremely well versed in Het Reds enough to make an absolute on this.

It looks like it could be to me.

But like I said, not an expert.

Oh geez.
Well I went with my first opinion. When I saw the first picture, Cinny popped into my mind so I did Cinny/Het. Pied.

Who knows. I'm curious though. I'm not an expert on this stuff as of yet.

I thought this would make an interesting post. A lot of us when new go by the "Guidelines" as our rule book in determining which of our animals are morphs.

What happens when we get one of those that doesn't display every single determining marker? Do we then decide that the animal is a Normal?

Go with your gut and breed it to produce a super.

If it doesn't produce, then you know that something is amiss and that something needs to be fixed by the person you purchased it from.

Phenotypically it looks like a black back normal -- genetically sure I suppose it could be something - anythings possible - I guess that is between you and the breeder. But if you are going to buy a morph why waste your money on an ambiguous one?

I voted Het red/het pied. That looks like a het red to me for sure, and the pied markers made me go with het pied although we all know pied markers aren't 100% so who knows, I can't wait to find out though. Either way, nice snake!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tosha_Mc

Phenotypically it looks like a black back normal -- genetically sure I suppose it could be something - anythings possible - I guess that is between you and the breeder. But if you are going to buy a morph why waste your money on an ambiguous one?

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Because I CAN. :banana: It is not ambiguous to me.:rofl: I know exactly what it is.

If YOU don't know, don't try and rain on my parade.:colbert::rofl:

It's not traits that draw me to an animal so much as an unusual marking, something that makes the animal stand out. On her, it's the heart (clearly defined) on her neck.

I would consider myself to have an above average understanding of morphs... and ability to pick them out.

1. You can not tell if its a het from a photo... period.

2. If you bought it as a Het Red or Cinnamon... you were lied to.

3. The snake in the photos is a normal, or a het but only you would know that from the paperwork.

4. Unless its a heart morph from the neck mark :D which is cool by the way.

Answer soon?

Het Red Ax
(not sure if the "pied" markers mean anything).

Here's a pic of the male with her...She's NOT a calm snake/very difficult to capture and she's in shed.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...etredax011.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NextWorldExotics

I would consider myself to have an above average understanding of morphs... and ability to pick them out.

1. You can not tell if its a het from a photo... period.

2. If you bought it as a Het Red or Cinnamon... you were lied to.

3. The snake in the photos is a normal, or a het but only you would know that from the paperwork.

4. Unless its a heart morph from the neck mark :D which is cool by the way.

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I beg to differ. YES, you can. The clear belly speaks for itself.

However, if you believe that you can't tell if it's a het from the photo, how do you know that I was lied to?:rofl:

Thanks for your opinion.:banana:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by broadude

Het Red Ax
(not sure if the "pied" markers mean anything).

Here's a pic of the male with her...She's NOT a calm snake/very difficult to capture and she's in shed.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...etredax011.jpg

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Im not being rude just honest...

You can not tell a SIMPLE RECESSIVE HET from a photo...

A VISUAL HET or Co-Dom morph you can... (ex. Het Ivory, Het Red, Pastel etc) and from your original photos its definately not a cinnamon and chances are its not a Het Red (pretty positive actually) Nor would you need paperwork on a Visual Het ( het red)

The top snake in the pic above looks like a Het Red but the bottom snake dosent at all... If you look at the pic they clearly dont look anything alike.

I have a guide to Het Reds that may help (Het reds do not have clear bellies for one...) www.nextworldexotics.com/hg.htm

Who sold you this snake?

Jon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by broadude

I beg to differ. YES, you can. The clear belly speaks for itself.

However, if you believe that you can't tell if it's a het from the photo, how do you know that I was lied to?:rofl:

Thanks for your opinion.:banana:

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Your posts are a bit confusing... you are saying you can tell it is a het since it has a clear belly?

I think he is saying that the het pied markers (the lines on the sides of the belly) are not definitive markers. Some het pieds have them, some don't, just like some normals have them and some don't. It's not a definite way to tell a het.

She isnt stating you can tell its a Het for a recessive gene from the pick

Thanks, Jon for your honesty.:)

I wasn't saying that I "needed" papers to prove she's Het Red. I mean that if it turns out that she's not..I have the papers that prove who I got it from and when (sorry that wasn't clear).

I am not saying that a clear belly proves anything. I am pointing out that it's also one of the "markers" for a morph and shouldn't be discounted and the animal classified as Normal. (her belly is clear except for the "pied-like markers" lower on her body.


Really, guys thanks for participating. I just wanted to know if anyone else saw what I saw. I appreciate the opinions. I'll post another picture when she's not in shed and I have someone to hold her still.

*if you picked it up...I am sensitive about my babies!:rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by broadude

Thanks, Jon for your honesty.:)

I wasn't saying that I "needed" papers to prove she's Het Red. I mean that if it turns out that she's not..I have the papers that prove who I got it from and when (sorry that wasn't clear).

I am not saying that a clear belly proves anything. I am pointing out that it's also one of the "markers" for a morph and shouldn't be discounted and the animal classified as Normal. (her belly is clear except for the "pied-like markers" lower on her body.


Really, guys thanks for participating. I just wanted to know if anyone else saw what I saw. I appreciate the opinions. I'll post another picture when she's not in shed and I have someone to hold her still.

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I think you kind of missed the point Jon was trying to make - it's not a cinnamon, it's not a het red, even if it has het pied markers it's not necessarily a het pied. If you have papers from the breeder saying it's 100% het pied then great prove it out and you're good to go.

But one should never assume a ball with the markers is an actual het -- it's a normal until proven otherwise -- I have a rack full of normals with black backs and markers that produce more black backs with markers -- it's not uncommon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by broadude

Thanks, Jon for your honesty.:)

I wasn't saying that I "needed" papers to prove she's Het Red. I mean that if it turns out that she's not..I have the papers that prove who I got it from and when (sorry that wasn't clear).

I am not saying that a clear belly proves anything. I am pointing out that it's also one of the "markers" for a morph and shouldn't be discounted and the animal classified as Normal. (her belly is clear except for the "pied-like markers" lower on her body.


Really, guys thanks for participating. I just wanted to know if anyone else saw what I saw. I appreciate the opinions. I'll post another picture when she's not in shed and I have someone to hold her still.

*if you picked it up...I am sensitive about my babies!:rofl:

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Hey i understand...

Papers are only as good as the breeder...and why would you want to waste the time trying to get the right animal if she dosent prove. I have nothing to gain from telling you what i see, i have no het reds for sale. I just would rather not see someone get ripped off.

I started the "guides" so people wouldnt get ripped of and know what they were buying. If you paid for a Het Red then i would return her and get one that looks like one. For even if she is one (which im 99% positive shes not) if any babies look like her you wil have a very hard time selling them.


Who is the breeder?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NextWorldExotics

Hey i understand...

Papers are only as good as the breeder...and why would you want to waste the time trying to get the right animal if she dosent prove. I have nothing to gain from telling you what i see, i have no het reds for sale. I just would rather not see someone get ripped off.

I started the "guides" so people wouldnt get ripped of and know what they were buying. If you paid for a Het Red then i would return her and get one that looks like one. For even if she is one (which im 99% positive shes not) if any babies look like her you wil have a very hard time selling them.


Who is the breeder?

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I understand, thank you; I accept the risk.

Doesn't matter who sold her to me. If she doesn't prove out then I will never buy from that person again, and if that person screwed me, they will screw someone else..eventually they will be their own worse enemy (I am a great believer in "what goes around, comes around."

I brought two het reds 1.1 ...that's what I am going on. She would be hard to mix up with that Heart shape on the joint of her neck/head. But since I brought her 7/10/07, it's too late to do anything about it if she is fake.

p.s. Hatchings can either look better or worse than the sire/dame regardless of how beautiful they were. Having beautiful parents, while it increases the chances of having beautiful hatchlings, is IMO no guarantee.

I don't know. I thought het red when I first saw the photos.

if the male is the top snake.. nice looking snake, if its the bottom snake, its a normal. Nice belly markers but otherwise doesnt look like much. The only thing that made me think hetpied were the belly markers, but ive got a nice looking male with belly markers and as far as i know hes a normal. Any animal can have a nice clear belly.. it doesnt mean its a morph. Two of my female normals have beautiful clear bellys.

I don't know, first thing I thought when I saw the descriptions and the pics was 'not enough information'. Some things you really need to see in person to even make an educated guess.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I don't know, first thing I thought when I saw the descriptions and the pics was 'not enough information'. Some things you really need to see in person to even make an educated guess.

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Very good! Intelligent reponse! :gj: I do love guessing games though.:banana:

It is actually a Het Red (in shed..now in DEEP shed with blue eyes) and possible granite (the "pied" markers are nothing special..I just thought it was an awesome joke if she did prove to have pied, but as far as I know, no Pied in her.

Yeah, in the pic she seems nothing special that's why I thought it would be a challenge, but quite a few people got it right. :gj:

Thanks for participating, everyone..and yes..I will follow up with her breeding, laying, and the hatching of her pairing.