Maternal Incubation Pics

I thought I'd would share a few pics of our first attempt at maternal incubation. This is our fourth season to produce eggs, but we've always used artificial incubation. I wanted to get some firsthand experience with this method. So far, things are looking good. There are at least 3 babies with their heads out and at least one other egg has several slits in it. It looks like we may get 100% hatch rate.

Sorry for the poor quality of the pics. I didn't want to disturb mom and the babies any more than necessary to get a few shots.

Thanks for looking.

http://photos.imageevent.com/corners...e/Dscf4330.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/corners...e/Dscf4331.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/corners...e/Dscf4332.jpg

When I did it a couple years ago, I had a 100% hatch rate..

Congrats on the babies!

WOW congrats man, thats really cool have never seen it before. thankx for showing us. :gj::gj::gj::bow::bow::bow:

Cool pictures - thanks for sharing!

Very cool! Are you expecting anything nice or just normals. You go more guts that I do. I was stressing getting them in the bator much less leaving them with mom.

Make sure you keep us updated on if mom takes longer to come back on feed that the ones that were in the bator. :D

Best of luck

congrats and good luck with the remaining eggs!

so how did you keep the humidity up??

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

When I did it a couple years ago, I had a 100% hatch rate..

Congrats on the babies!

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Thanks Heather!!!

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Originally Posted by Drew87

WOW congrats man, thats really cool have never seen it before. thankx for showing us. :gj::gj::gj::bow::bow::bow:

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Thanks Andrew!!!

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Originally Posted by cassandra

Cool pictures - thanks for sharing!

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Thank you Cassandra!!!

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Very cool! Are you expecting anything nice or just normals. You go more guts that I do. I was stressing getting them in the bator much less leaving them with mom.

Make sure you keep us updated on if mom takes longer to come back on feed that the ones that were in the bator. :D

Best of luck

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Thanks Ed!!!

This clutch is from a Black Pastel x normal pairing. LOL, I did pay a lot more attention to these than I do the ones in the incubator. I misted the substrate daily and checked mom and the eggs (when I could see them) with a temp gun to make sure the temps were ok.

I'll keep you posted on what we end up with and how mom does on her feeding.

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Originally Posted by bigballs

congrats and good luck with the remaining eggs!

so how did you keep the humidity up??

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Thanks Julian!!!

I placed a large water bowl beside mom and misted the substrate daily. I was really concerned about the humidity because she is in a Vision CB70 rack and it's harder to keep the humidity up in those racks than it is in a closed rack such as Boaphile RhinoRaxx, RBI, etc.

Wow, I'm way to chicken(or is it lazy) to try that.

Congrats on a successful incubation:bow:

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

Wow, I'm way to chicken(or is it lazy) to try that.

Congrats on a successful incubation:bow:

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Ditto on that!

Very nice Tim... Very nice.

Justin

Nice job, Louis... I did this a couple years ago and had a 100% hatch rate with nice healthy babies. Hope you don't get flamed ad much for it as I did... hahaha. :)

Respect!
Mom looks great..did she eat during her incubation?

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http://photos.imageevent.com/corners...e/Dscf4331.jpg

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That's an incredible picture! :D

awesome job!!!, or tell the momma that :D

Thank you for sharing these incredible pictures! :bow:

No matter what anyone says..I am sure taking the eggs away from the mother stresses her even if we do wash out all traces of smell.

For example: I have this one snake that I had (very calm) has taken to LUNGING for prey (l think she's trying to tag me). She started doing this after I removed her clutch..body language?? I think so!:rofl:

Again...Great job!!:gj: After you post information on feeding habits (how soon returned to feeding..eating more, or less...etc) I'll be able to make a more informed decision on whether I should let nature handle its business or continue to interfer.

Congrats! Very dramatic shots between the mom and the babies.:gj:

Thanks for sharing!

I'm very interested in this topic as well so I look forward to updates.

-Chris-:)

Awesome pictures!

Since there are some good lessons in here specifically about breeding, I'm going to move this into the breeding forum. That way folks searching for more info on maternal breeding will be more likely to find it. ;)

I've got a curious question...or maybe a few questions :confused:

If there is a 100% hatch rate for maternal incubation why isn't it used more often or all the time?

Why is it so much better supposedly to use other forms of incubation?

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Originally Posted by anghaha

I've got a curious question...or maybe a few questions :confused:

If there is a 100% hatch rate for maternal incubation why isn't it used more often or all the time?

Why is it so much better supposedly to use other forms of incubation?

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It's not a 100% hatch rate all the time. People have had a few clutches with 100% hatch rate, but this isn't assuming that all maternal incubations are.

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Originally Posted by jkobylka

Ditto on that!

Very nice Tim... Very nice.

Justin

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Why did I say "Tim".... Sorry Louis!!!!! Still impressive work! :)

Justin

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Originally Posted by AVALover5498

I'm very interested in this topic as well so I look forward to updates.

-Chris-:)

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x2

And more details PLEASSSSSSE!!!!

Cheers!! :gj:

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Originally Posted by anghaha

I've got a curious question...or maybe a few questions :confused:

If there is a 100% hatch rate for maternal incubation why isn't it used more often or all the time?

Why is it so much better supposedly to use other forms of incubation?

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Because once you take the female off the eggs, you will understand.

It looks like an empty hose with lots of pressure.

Ribs and nothing else.. sucked in...

They end up being more emaciated. But my case, it was much more simple to get back to feeding, but she wasn't eating for two months plus the time she was gravid. Kinda a double edged sword in a way...

Mom is tending to those things for two months, wherein if you have them in an inbubator, mom is tending to herself.

I did it, I hatched babies, and I would do it again if an emergency called for it.

Would I do it all the time? No way...

Congrats Louis. I have been toying with the idea of trying it myself on a clutch, just to put a little more experience under my belt. I hope you get a couple Black Pastels out of the clutch. Maybe I missed it when I read the thread, but how many eggs were there.

definitely an interesting topic that i've had questions about on more than one occasion! i LOVE the pictures, and cannot wait to see the full outcome of this little story!

how lovely :)

PS that third pic is phenomenal. kinda like mom saying "welcome to the world junior" so cute :)

That is awesome! I have heard of people doing this but I haven't ever seen pictures...thanks!! That is definately something that interests me, and it will be neat to see how everything works out with that clutch! ^_^

Congrats! I'll add my voice to all those asking for more info because maternal incubation is really interesting to me.

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Originally Posted by Rapture

Nice job, Louis... I did this a couple years ago and had a 100% hatch rate with nice healthy babies. Hope you don't get flamed ad much for it as I did... hahaha. :)

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Well, he did it the right way to avoid flames by waiting until he had healthy babies hatching. But the rest of us didn't get as much info and anticipation along the way!

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

Wow, I'm way to chicken(or is it lazy) to try that.

Congrats on a successful incubation:bow:

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Thanks Raul!!!

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Originally Posted by jkobylka

Ditto on that!

Very nice Tim... Very nice.

Justin

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Originally Posted by jkobylka

Why did I say "Tim".... Sorry Louis!!!!! Still impressive work! :)

Justin

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Thanks Justin!!!

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Originally Posted by Rapture

Nice job, Louis... I did this a couple years ago and had a 100% hatch rate with nice healthy babies. Hope you don't get flamed ad much for it as I did... hahaha. :)

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Thanks Diana!!! As far as the flaming goes........gosh I hope not. :O :weirdface ;)

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Originally Posted by MATTI

Respect!
Mom looks great..did she eat during her incubation?

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Thanks Matti!!!

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

That's an incredible picture! :D

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Thanks Connie!!!

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Originally Posted by atp151415

awesome job!!!, or tell the momma that :D

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Thanks!!! I'll pass the word on to her!

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Originally Posted by broadude

Thank you for sharing these incredible pictures! :bow:

No matter what anyone says..I am sure taking the eggs away from the mother stresses her even if we do wash out all traces of smell.

For example: I have this one snake that I had (very calm) has taken to LUNGING for prey (l think she's trying to tag me). She started doing this after I removed her clutch..body language?? I think so!:rofl:

Again...Great job!!:gj: After you post information on feeding habits (how soon returned to feeding..eating more, or less...etc) I'll be able to make a more informed decision on whether I should let nature handle its business or continue to interfer.

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Thanks!!! This is something I wanted to try, to get the experience and although it appears we will get 100% hatch rate on this clutch (one baby has yet to leave the egg) and all the babies appear to be healthy, I will continue to use artificial incubation for the majority of our clutches. We are using maternal incubation on 3 of our clutches this year, but the rest will be placed in our incubator. I will post updates on this clutch as well as those that are still incubating.

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Originally Posted by pedipalps

Congrats! Very dramatic shots between the mom and the babies.:gj:

Thanks for sharing!

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You're welcome!!!

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Originally Posted by AVALover5498

I'm very interested in this topic as well so I look forward to updates.

-Chris-:)

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Thanks!!! I will be posting updates soon.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Awesome pictures!

Since there are some good lessons in here specifically about breeding, I'm going to move this into the breeding forum. That way folks searching for more info on maternal breeding will be more likely to find it. ;)

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Thanks Judy!!!

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Originally Posted by MATTI

Respect!
Mom looks great..did she eat during her incubation?

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Matti, I forgot to answer your question in my earlier post.

I didn't offer her anything during incubation so I'm sure she's ready now. :hungry: :hungry: :hungry:

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Originally Posted by dracovolans

x2

And more details PLEASSSSSSE!!!!

Cheers!! :gj:

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Thanks!!! I'll be sure to post some updates.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Congrats Louis. I have been toying with the idea of trying it myself on a clutch, just to put a little more experience under my belt. I hope you get a couple Black Pastels out of the clutch. Maybe I missed it when I read the thread, but how many eggs were there.

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Thanks Tim!!! She laid 5 eggs and 1 slug. The first 3 out of the egg were normals so I was starting to sweat a bit. The fourth one out was a Black Pastel (whew!) and although the fifth one is still in the egg, it appears to be another Black Pastel. Hopefully at least one of them will be a female.

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Originally Posted by ViciousBliss

definitely an interesting topic that i've had questions about on more than one occasion! i LOVE the pictures, and cannot wait to see the full outcome of this little story!

how lovely :)

PS that third pic is phenomenal. kinda like mom saying "welcome to the world junior" so cute :)

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Thank you!!!

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Originally Posted by tweets_4611

That is awesome! I have heard of people doing this but I haven't ever seen pictures...thanks!! That is definately something that interests me, and it will be neat to see how everything works out with that clutch! ^_^

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Thanks Shannon!!!

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Originally Posted by kc261

Congrats! I'll add my voice to all those asking for more info because maternal incubation is really interesting to me.

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Thanks Casey!!!

very awesome!

What temps did you keep mom and the eggs at? or what did you read the most throughout incubation?

great pictures too, seriously :D

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Originally Posted by mooingtricycle

very awesome!

What temps did you keep mom and the eggs at? or what did you read the most throughout incubation?

great pictures too, seriously :D

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Thanks!!!

The temps were 88-90 degrees checked daily with a Raytec infrared temp gun.

awesome post... congrats!! I would love to hear an update on your female and those babies!

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Originally Posted by ADEE

awesome post... congrats!! I would love to hear an update on your female and those babies!

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All 3 females are doing well, as are the babies. The females are all POUNDING rats and should be ready for next season. They all have better feeding responses now than they ever had before. Of course, an extra 60 days added to their fast no doubt ramped up their appetite.

Thanks for asking about them!

thanks for the update!!

How did you maintain their tub while she was incubating? Did you do spot cleaning or just left them alone? What weight was the mother before/after breeding? More info please!

thats really cool louis..pretty cool experience

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Originally Posted by ladybird

How did you maintain their tub while she was incubating? Did you do spot cleaning or just left them alone? What weight was the mother before/after breeding? More info please!

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Hi Ladybird.........with the females not eating for some time prior to laying or during incubation, there wasn't much of anything to clean other than a little uric acid. What little there was, I spot cleaned if I could get to it with losing my arm. :O :O :O

Other than a daily misting of the substrate, a temp check and keeping fresh water in their bowls, I pretty much left them alone.

I'm not going to be much help to you with the weight, as I rarely ever weigh my adults.

I will say that all three of the females lost a considerable amount of weight as you would expect given the length of their fast and the amount of energy they used developing, laying and incubating their eggs.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, they are all feeding STRONGLY now. They all have a much better feeding response than before. One of them would only take weanling rats...nothing larger. Now, she'll take anything I put in the tub including my hand if I'm not careful. :colbert: :colbert: :colbert: In most cases the rat doesn't have time to get all four feet down before she grabs it. :hungry::hungry::hungry:

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Originally Posted by Larry Suttles

thats really cool louis..pretty cool experience

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Thanks Larry!

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Originally Posted by Louis Kirkland

I misted the substrate daily and checked mom and the eggs (when I could see them) with a temp gun to make sure the temps were ok.

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Out of curiousity, what were the clutch temps like throughout the process? I've read things about the mother being able to regulate the temperature of the eggs, I'm curious about what temp she was able to keep them at.

I don't have the juevos for maternal incubation, thats for sure....

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Out of curiousity, what were the clutch temps like throughout the process? I've read things about the mother being able to regulate the temperature of the eggs, I'm curious about what temp she was able to keep them at.

I don't have the juevos for maternal incubation, thats for sure....

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Hi Brad....I monitored the temps daily and they stayed between 88-90 degrees.

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Originally Posted by Louis Kirkland

Hi Brad....I monitored the temps daily and they stayed between 88-90 degrees.

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Was that the temp of the hot spot?

and now that the mother is feeding again, is she re-gaining all the weight lost? Do you think she'll be ready for the next season?

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Originally Posted by ladybird

Was that the temp of the hot spot?

and now that the mother is feeding again, is she re-gaining all the weight lost? Do you think she'll be ready for the next season?

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I'm sure there were some minor fluctuations, but I tried to maintain a 90 degree hot spot.

The females are still below their prebreeding weight but if they contunue to feed at their current pace I feel sure they will be ready to breed this coming season. All three clutches hatched between 7/02/08-7/15/08. so it's only been a couple of months since they started feeding after fasting for over six months.

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Originally Posted by Louis Kirkland

I'm sure there were some minor fluctuations, but I tried to maintain a 90 degree hot spot.

The females are still below their prebreeding weight but if they contunue to feed at their current pace I feel sure they will be ready to breed this coming season. All three clutches hatched between 7/02/08-7/15/08. so it's only been a couple of months since they started feeding after fasting for over six months.

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Where in the cage did she lay her eggs, in relation to the hot spot?

That is so cute and awesome!!! :banana: I don't think I could handle that though... I'd be wayy to anxious/nervous about incubating them artificially!!

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Originally Posted by ladybird

Where in the cage did she lay her eggs, in relation to the hot spot?

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All 3 females laid their eggs in the center of the hot spot.

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Originally Posted by Mitch21

That is so cute and awesome!!! :banana: I don't think I could handle that though... I'd be wayy to anxious/nervous about incubating them artificially!!

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Thanks Mitch! I know what you mean about being nervous. From what I recall, I didn't have to trim my fingernails while they were incubating. :worry:

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Originally Posted by Louis Kirkland

All 3 females laid their eggs in the center of the hot spot.



Thanks Mitch! I know what you mean about being nervous. From what I recall, I didn't have to trim my fingernails while they were incubating. :worry:

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I'd love to try maternal incubation, I'd just be worried about the state of the female, how skinny she gets! What weights would you recommend waiting until breeding a female for maternal incubation?

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Originally Posted by ladybird

I'd love to try maternal incubation, I'd just be worried about the state of the female, how skinny she gets! What weights would you recommend waiting until breeding a female for maternal incubation?

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Ladybird, I would use the same criteria for determining a female's suitability for breeding regardless of the method of incubation I intended to use. If she's mature, healthy, of good size and feeding well going into breeding season, I would put her into a breeding program.

Two of the three females that we allowed to maternally incubate their eggs were first time moms. The third female had produced several clutches prior to this year. Their weights ranged from approximately 1500-2500 grams prior to breeding. All three lost a considerable amount of weight by the time the eggs hatched.

Best of luck with your breeding.

So, did you ever get pictures of the babys?

Very nice! That is such an awesome pic.:gj:

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Originally Posted by Louis Kirkland

Two of the three females that we allowed to maternally incubate their eggs were first time moms. The third female had produced several clutches prior to this year. Their weights ranged from approximately 1500-2500 grams prior to breeding. All three lost a considerable amount of weight by the time the eggs hatched.

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Can you tell us what each one weighed before breeding and after hatching the young?