When did you start a Feeder Colony?

Hey All

My BP collection is starting to increase and I'm starting to look at the costs of keeping the little munchers fed.

Out of curiosity, at what stage did the collectors/breeders out there start their own feeder colony?

When did you say, "Hell, I'm spending too much on food!, Time to breed my own!"?

At the moment a mouse costs me 80c(R6.50) and a rat $1.20 (R9.50)

Also do you breed rats or mice. I've read that rats are a better option because they can cater for all sizes of Balls from hatchling to adulthood (without having to feed multiples i.e. mice at one sitting). Also some user here on BP.net say that mice stink more than rats.

Second to that if you don't feed live prey from your colony, how do you go about humanely killing them for f/t purposes?

Finally, what is the general breeding rate of rats and mice?

Thanks

I started my colony of feeders when I had one BP, in anticipation of 4 subadults that I had ordered from a breeder that was local to me.

It was great timing, although it took awhile to get the numbers figured out (I rehomed alot of rats that had gotten too big).

Started with 1 male and 3 females. I have had up to 20 snakes and the most breeder rats I had was 16.

Now I am down to 7 (1.6) and have 16 snakes.

Bruce

Missed a bit...

I feed rats, but have recently started raising ASFs as well. I loathe mice. They stink, they take forever to get to size, and the infantcide rate is quite high.

I CO2 my older rats, but if I am freezing pinks they go directly into the freezer.. they are resistant to CO2 and I have not found another way to kill them.

Bruce

I think we started breeding our own at 6 snakes, but we still ordered FT online. It's taken months to hold back and build the colony, and I think we've been completely free from the bill for 8 months now.

In this thread, there is a section of how to get one litter a week of rats and a nice rotation schedule going.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=52894

I bet you can find the Natal rats/ African soft furreds around there. They breed like crazy and you'll have more than enough in no time. :gj:

I started with only one snake breeding mice. Sold the extras off and since they did not grow fast I did not have to much to worry about. Got sick of them later and switched to rats again for only one snake. 'course ive got a few(6) snakes that will be coming in the next few months so im saving back alot of stuff for F/T.

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Originally Posted by Bundu Boy

When did you say, "Hell, I'm spending too much on food!, Time to breed my own!"?

At the moment a mouse costs me 80c(R6.50) and a rat $1.20 (R9.50)

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I think it was around the time we had 5 BP's. We were feeding live and the only supplier for healthy, live rodents charged us (don't faint) $4.99 per rat. 5 snakes x 1 rat each per week s 4 weeks in the month x $5 a rat was coming out to about $125 or better a month so it was just sensible and cost effective to start breeding our own feeders.

Quote:

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Also do you breed rats or mice. I've read that rats are a better option because they can cater for all sizes of Balls from hatchling to adulthood (without having to feed multiples i.e. mice at one sitting). Also some user here on BP.net say that mice stink more than rats.

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I've tried to breed mice twice with disasterous results. I suck at mouse breeding apparently and yes, mice smell far more strongly that regular rats or african soft furred (ASF) rats. Currently we do both regular and ASF rats but are moving more towards putting most of the collection on ASF's. We'll always breed the larger rats though for our larger snakes who would go through far too many ASF's due to their size.

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Finally, what is the general breeding rate of rats and mice?

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The regular rats can produce about every 2 months or so (allowing for gestation and nursing time). The ASF females pop out a litter about every 25 days and seem far less physically affected by back to back breeding activity. Our ASF's live in a permanent colony situation with one male and 2 to 4 females, their offspring until one month of age when they are removed for weaning, and any younger litters. They seem to do fine with that situation and co-operatively raise all young. I don't back to back breed my regular rats since it seems to have a harder impact on the females to carry a litter and also be actively nursing another one.

I think I started around 6 or 7.

--- I would breed rats, for the reason you stated. I do have a tub of mice for my "princes and princesses" of the group, and are good for hatchlings as well. Never tried ASF's.

---I personally recommend investing in building a nice rack - even if you dont use all of the tubs right away, you will sooner or later.
I say this b/c I messed around with individual tubs from walmart (cutting the tops and inserting mesh) - and hated it. I felt like I was wasting time and space, and have had escapies. It could definately work for you, as I know it works for some others here, but I personally would just go ahead and build the rack if you're serious. I built this little friend : http://www.arbreptiles.com/cages/rat_rack/ratrack.shtml, without the watering system (i just stick water bottles through the mesh)
and LOVE it. It has Adequate ventilation (the key to your smelly issues), and it takes me like 10 minutes to clean the whole thing (with one empty tub to put the rats occupying the tub im cleaning). I did split the design in half (4 tubs high, 2 wide) just because of my attic design. I think it cost me all of $65 or so, and is well worth avoiding the aggravation of anything else. ** if you put mice it it, you need a smaller mesh, as wee ones get out of the bigger mesh - haha, trust, i know :rolleyes:

---I put 2 females in each tub, and circulate the male once a week. I made it a habit to remember to switch the male when I feed snakes. By the 7th tub (7 weeks), it's time for the first tub to start again. Gestation is about 23 days or so.

---if you dont feed live, search this site for the co2 chamber designs. I've never done this before, so Ill let the experts explain that to you.

--- feeding a bunch of rats is a lot cheaper than buying them. I have my walmart rat food trip down to a science, and takes me longer to stand in line than to actually get the stuff in my cart. I spend about $30 i think, and it will last me 2-3 weeks. Is the sticky still there for becky's mix under feeders? It's been a while since i've been here :rolleyes: I pretty much stick to that mixture -

How many snakes are you feeding? Im sure we would be happy to help you get started with a setup, how many to start with, a schedule, things of that nature :gj:

One of the diffs b/w rats and mice too... may have been addressed already... is the growth rate... I give all my snakes the odd week off, just to make sure I am not overfeeding and to keep everyone eating consistently.

It tends to fall when the rats are not producing. :)

But if you do end up with the odd dry spell as far as litters go, the rat pups will grow quite quickly and are more robust than mice.

I have fostered mice and ASFs to my regular rats when I think they are close to being weaned, but I want them just to get a bit of a "kick" up in size.

Bruce

Thanks for the great replies all:gj: Much appreciated..

I've seen ASF here on BP.net a lot but never actually knew what it means... now I know:banana:

Right now I've got 3 Ball, but should shortly be getting my hands on a 20month old pair of 100% het albinos. Then after that there'll be 3 hatchlings coming January. So by beginning of 2009 that'll be a total of 8 Balls. (8 (mice per week) x R6.50 x 52 weeks = R2704 per year minimum - more likely it'll be 14 mice per week or so if feeding older balls 2-3 per week, that's over R4500 per year, which would buy me a Pastel)

To keep things simple I'd probably want to get going with rats in order to feed right up the size chain.

First thing I wanna do is get more info on the ASF rats....

Keep the ideas coming y'all:gj:

I suggest visiting http://asfrats.info

I started when we had 3 snakes, accidentally when was I sold a very pregnant momma mouse...and then it was just fun. =)

I breed rats and mice now in hopes of becoming completely self sufficient, even with the burm (2-3 jumbos a week will cover him nicely)...cuz...gas + feeder cost > cost of breeding operation.

aren't the ASF's the normal rodent where you live????

I started breeding at 1 snake with 1.1 rats. Worked fine. Now I'm at 9.38 with 37 snakes. Hey I guess you can kind of see a trend there, roughly 1 female rat per snake and there you go!

Hope that helps!

I started breeding ASFs after getting my ball.

Before I was breeding mice for my corn but I didn't have very adequate room for them and they got smelly and carnivorous. :[

I'm still working on getting a good schedule going.. it's not helping that he's refusing ASFs now.

I bred not necessarily for cost, but convenience. I don't have any local petstores and it'd be a big pain to haul my rear end over to them at least once or twice a week. Gas would get pricey too.

I'm quite happy with it so far.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

live rodents charged us (don't faint) $4.99

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lol I paid 6.47 per rat, luky me I only had the Sumatran Python.:banana:

I started when I had 6 snakes...only because of the price of rats.

mice - $1.50
sm rats - $2.99
med. rats - 4.99
lrg rats - $6.99

outrageous..

I started at 4 snakes I believe, and have been breeding only mice. It's worked out fairly well for me keeping them in trios of 1.2. Now that I have three adult BPs I'm raising 2.2 rats to breeding age and have fed off all my breeder mice but 1.3 which I will keep breeding for corns and picky eaters.

I have a soft spot for rats, which is why I said I would 'never' feed them to snakes... but after seeing the weights of my two big girls (the only ones currently on rats) and liking not having to offer 3 mice to them in one feeding, well I changed my mind. Now to get the 5 corns and the other 3 BPs on rats...:please:

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Originally Posted by Bundu Boy

I've seen ASF here on BP.net a lot but never actually knew what it means... now I know:banana:

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Insert shameless plug for my first ever sticky: :D

Anytime anyone doesn't know what an abbreviation means, try looking at this thread in the General Herps section:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69059

If you find something that isn't already listed, please let us know to make it better!

I started breeding once I hit 5+ when I hit ten I really started then once I got over 20 I needed a rack full of rats.

im not sure...
i feel like the only one...

we have 8 snakes....
had 9....
getting....at least 3 more....

and no feeder colony....


:/

i want to start one...
it seems easyer....


and cheaper..



but...


my mom hates em.
lol

I began breeding my own when I hit about 8. Well technically I started breeding them before, but nothing too much. Now I'm trying to get my colony to the point where I provide for myself. I had to start breeding my own feeders because the drive to the store is about 20-30 min both ways, so thats 40-60 min worth of driving, plus the food bills is somewhere around $30-$35/week now. Its easier to just buy the food and bedding to breed my own. I feed 11 snakes a week (well 12 now) and two of my females are on a heavier feeding schedule so I can get them up to weight for the breeding season. (eating every 5 days instead of every 7)

If I were to be supplying my own, I would be saving about $50+ a month. I just need to expand the colony a bit and get all the rats on a schedule for breeding.

What about cleaning the cages? I hated cleaning rodent cages when I had them as a kid.

How often do you have to clean? It's still worth it, I assume, but what a pain.
Thawing seems so much easier for me and not really cheeper.
After figuring these costs: rodent racks, rat food, bottles, buying new stock, etc.

I just got my collection up to 7 snakes. Maybe I'll have a colony in the future? :confused:

I actually started breeding mice before my first ball over 18 yrs. ago. Now ( which is part of my business ) I breed mice,rats and rabbits for my feeder food and sell off my over flow to a few pet stores and to the public. I have over 50 snakes in my collection from small to the big ones. I also breed beardied dragons.

I JUST started breeding my own feeders at 72 snakes. LOL But most where pink eaters as adults.
But to make up for my mistake of waiting so long I have started breeding my own mealworms at just 1 gecko. :D But I will soon have many more.

In my opinion rats are much better to breed than mice. Mice stink and are mean, also my opinion. It is nice to save a dollar on each rat.

I've got 3 snakes and my breeding colony is just getting to the point where I'd call it established.

I don't think it's so much that it's cheaper for me to breed, as that instead of a 95 dollar bill every 4 months, I pay a small amount for food and bedding more regularly. It's easier on my bank account since I never seem to remember to save up for the big hit.

It probably is cheaper but I only just started keeping track of how often I buy food and bedding so I'll know soon how much I'm saving or if I'm coming out even. I know getting started was expensive but I figure it will even out.

started my ASF colony around 8 months ago,no need to buy anymore+ they lovem:gj:

Howdy all

Thanks for the great replies:gj::gj:

I'm now up to 6 Balls, with 2 more to follow, and am thinking seriously now of getting a breeding rack started pretty soon.

I've just found out that we get have African Furred Rats here (funny that, me being in Africa and all:rolleye2:) , but they are called Natal Rats, or Mastomys natalensis. They are not the typical rat type found in the pet stores so I'll need to track someone down that has them. I know a lot of petstores around my area so will check there first and see if they can get me a male a few females.

We are thinking about breeding our own mice. But haven't started yet. One of our friends is getting into breeding Balls, and we figure we can share the cost of the mice. But I am still researching to see if we will actually save any money only having one snake to feed.

my 1st herp is a corn way back in 2005. and i started breeding ever since then, cause there are no mice around. now i have 10 snakes. 4-corns, 2-milk, 2-king, 2-balls. im self sufficient... but now, my balls need 2 mice per feeding..

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Originally Posted by EdShal

my 1st herp is a corn way back in 2005. and i started breeding ever since then, cause there are no mice around. now i have 10 snakes. 4-corns, 2-milk, 2-king, 2-balls. im self sufficient... but now, my balls need 2 mice per feeding..

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Yah, this is the problem with balls and mice, once the balls grow up a bit then multiple mice feedings are required, this is when rats become preferred. In your case though I think it is better to do mice as you are feeding mostly corns and milks. Although rat pups and small rats should work nicely for corns too....

Each to their own I guess:gj:

Right now I have a trio of ASF, I have a group of 7 female rats though only 1 so far is a proven breeder 3 are too young and I need a male,5 mice. We have 1 ball python ,2 cornsnakes,a redeared turtle,pacman frog and next week a pixie frog that all can eat feeders . We also keep hermit crabs and I heard they eat like pinkies. Any left overs will be given away or frozen.

im starting a trio of ASF's this comming week. there is NO stores around me that sell feeders except one that has nothing but sick unhealthy stock. ive only got the one snake but the gas money i save will be well worth it. any extra stock that i have will be sold.

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Originally Posted by bobbi

im starting a trio of ASF's this comming week. there is NO stores around me that sell feeders except one that has nothing but sick unhealthy stock. ive only got the one snake but the gas money i save will be well worth it. any extra stock that i have will be sold.

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You know if you can find a steady buyer, selling extra stock can more than pay for feed and bedding. Just make sure you find somewhere you can buy food in bulk, it gets expensive fast! The little buggers eat more than you can think possible.

Good luck with the ASF's!

lol when I had just 5 snakes I would get so many breeders going and then freeze them off during the winter. Now with 20 snakes ( 12 eggs due end of July) i can get any production going outside of a mice cage. It driving me bonkers I am right now trying to figure out were to get 20 large mice /or 15 weaning rats and a couple mice all alive and cheap. I stopped breeding rats when I rehomed the boa ,plus they kept killing the young. I got 2-3 that seem to prefer live only.

i started breed when got 6 snakes now but toward end of the year beginning of next year going to be getting 60+ snakes to start breeding all different sizes and kinds.


i don't c why everybody says they have such problems with mice eating there young i had 1 mother loose her litter 1 time then a started giving them meal worms again low and behold aint lost a baby since going on 4 months now

I started a feeder colony when I had 6 ball pythons, and was having trouble getting food (local sources were unreliable, and I didn't want to drive half an hour every week to a more reliable source). Rats were costing me $3.99 each plus tax, so that was more than $24 weekly.

To pre kill, we either use cervical dislocation or gas them. Prefer has, because its less personal or hands on.