Front Feet Folded Under

Is it normal for a BD to walk with their front feet folded under?

how long has she/he been doing it?
where did you acquire the animal?

sometimes (From what i understand) beardies who do not receive the calcium their diet calls for it results in big problems (including what your talking about) have you had this animal evaluated yet by a herp vet? that would be very helpful to you, have you read the care sheets for them too?

Still refusing to take the animal to the vet?

For other readers, here's their other thread regarding this BD

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69309

Look, I respect that I may need to take her to the vet, but i was dealing with other problems with her at the time and spent $500 on husbandry alone (improving a number of the issues).

I will be taking her to the vet but I don't feel that their is a need to 'expose' the public to me being an 'irresponsible' pet owner when I am doing everything in my power to care for the animal.

Jeez

Ease up a little, everyone. Sometimes it just isn't possible to take an animal to the vet right away...or even within a week! Even when you set money aside in savings for such things, other things come up that drain it. Only when a person flat out says something like 'Oh I don't believe in vet visits', or 'Vets? Who needs that, I'll just give them a home remedy.' should you assume they aren't going to take the good advice to get their animal in ASAP. :)

As for the Beardie, that does sound a lot like calcium deficiency. I would be interested to know where and when you got them as well, and how long they've been doing that.

A> She hasn't been doing it for long. SHe hadn't really been eating well because of the 'snow blindness' and mild impaction, both of which I have nursed her back to health from (which wasn't inexpensive). Because she hadn't been eating, she obviously wasn't getting her dust. I've been giving her pureed squash mixed with calcium dust this evening in hopes of rehabilitation.

B> She isn't folding them under all the time. She's gone from being very lethargic to moving around ALOT more. I'd say I've done a fine job and spent plenty of money on helping her. Just because I didn't rush to a vet I don't deserve to be chastised.


She WILL recover, one way or another. People post on these forums for help, not to be judged by others. If I was being neglectful or irresponsible then I would respect your anger but at this point I would expect your compassion and support for the fact that I have been paying close attention and doing whatever I can to help.

Who said I was angry? I was merely pointing out the fact that you continue to ask for help, and a lot of people give some speculation, but really what can we do over the internet other than help you correct husbandry or point out symptoms that need medical attention? Maybe some simple first aid, but we cannot diagnose your animal. We can guess, but not diagnose.

I have seen no posts from you indicating that a vet visit was even considered, until now.

So anywho...

Ok, maybe you aren't angry but definately ornery.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kanarybird

Ok, maybe you aren't angry but definately ornery.

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I'd say miffed.
It irks me when we give a lot of suggestions to a poster, especially for a vet visit, and the OP gives no hint, clue or statement that a vet visit was considered, while still looking for more answers to symptoms that are serious.

First off... you come here asking for help and then dont take it. Connie is an experienced herp owner and is trying to help just as i was. You need to be offering that beardie calcium at every feeding, even putting it on the lettuce that she should be getting. What are you feeding her besides baby food at this point?

You dont need to "prove" what you've done for the animal.. thats your job as a care taker of anything. Its your job to take care of it, in sickness and in health and yes, that does include taking it to a vet. I dont know where you have spent $500 in husbandry stuff, someone has totally ripped you off if thats the case, what is your general set-up? Have you fixed your lamps yet? What about substrate, have you corrected that what are you using now? You ask for help, were trying to give it thats all. No one here is trying to put you down or anything like that, tone is not put into internet and you need to take that into consideration also.

What is it going to take for you to take this situation seriously? Severe calcium deficiency that ends in paralysis, death, exc? That animal needs help.. more help then what its getting right now.

Photos of your entire set-up and bearded would help but all we have to go by is your word and from what you have written this sounds very serious and certainly not something to be taken lightly... Its the animal were concerned about not your feelings, sorry to be blunt but you asked for help not for compassion.

You're right, but at the same time I have taken all the suggestions and seen improvements in all previous areas. She's eating, active and pooping regularly...her eyes are alert and open. I've been dusting EVERYTHING...crickets, lettuce, wax worms and baby food.

I apologize if anyone has taken offence or come to believe that I've been irresponsible but I have nursed her over many of these issues. I appreciate all of the feedback and hope for more. If the situation hasn't improved by morning time than I will take her to a vet.

...and I haven't been able to post any pictures because my camera is in the shop...

glad to hear your going to take her to the vet... in the future, i would suggest taking any snake/bearded/gecko/exc to the vet to make sure there are no parasites, exc in them depending on where your getting your animals.

I personally only deal with ONE very trusted breeder for my resident animals, any rescues have been checked out.. for the safety of my own animals. Good luck with it.. in the future i would suggest doing LOTS of research before getting an animal.. that is across the board, said with the best of intentions, better then getting head over heals in a problem :gj:

Just an FYI... Lettuce really isn't a good thing to give to beardies...it has VERY LITTLE nutritional value.

Too true. Better would be greens like Collard, Mustard, BokChoy and Dandelion. Also make sure some other veggies are diced in for variety. :) Beardies are pigs for a reason.

When I got my Beardie a few months ago, I spent about $60 total on his setup. He's in a 116qt tub, papertowels/newspaper as substrate, I got some river rocks for him to bask on, added a digital thermometer I already had, his basking lamp I already had(WalMart has ceramic based lamps for $7), the bulb(a 65W true color GE bulb) cost a whole $5, the RepstiSun 10.0 36" bulb was $30, the 36" fixture was $20, and the calcium can be found at any drug store in pill form(crush it up and bottle it). Herptivite I already had(it's $12 or so now though).

Believe me.. it can be done EASILY for WAY under $500. I don't know what they sold you, but I'm sure alot of it can be taken back. Beardies are easy, they don't require a whole lot after the initial purchase to thrive.

we used "spring mix" salad for our beardeds..

Problem was that I bought the initial setup and it was wrong in every way (the retailer has since heard my ferocious roar). Then I needed to purchase new everything...

Anyhoo, she's eaten very well today, her limbs are much more dextrous, she is much more active and her eyes are open and alert.

Here are some pictures of her and her enclosure (i got my camera back today!!)...

http://www.johnkanary.com/personal/yoko_1.jpg

http://www.johnkanary.com/personal/yoko_2.jpg

Any feedback is cool...

I've got her in a 20L (for now) with a patio stone (which I boiled) a repti-glo clamp (for heat) a powersun (for UV) and Ceramic Tiles for substrate (under suggestion by BeardedDragon). The Temps are 105-110 and 85-90.

Thanks.

:cool:

Oh, and two quick things....I'm using Organic Field Mix (which contains Red Collard and Green Collard among others) with squash baby food (until I get to the grocery store). She seems to like it.

and that orange spot on her nose is squash :D

If you can get some mineral oil(pharmacy such as Walgreens or CVS) and put a tiny amount, maybe 0.1cc-0.3cc of it, into the babyfood, that may lube her up enough to pass the blockage. If not, it won't hurt her. Get her to drink as much water and as much liquidy stuff as possible. Soak her a few times a day in warm water, that will help hydrate her from both ends.

If you can suspend the UVB bulb to where the light penetrates the entire enclosure, that would be best.

As soon as you can get her into the vet and get a radiograph done to see how her bone density is, the better. Her front limbs look swollen, which is indicative of MBD.

Sounds like Becky has everything covered.

Set up looks very good, yes the tiles make perfect substrate.. my leos are on a 18x18 tile.. I too still encourage you to get the little girl looked at. Good luck! You may also want to measure the temps at the top of the vine you have in there and see how hot those are getting.. becareful they arent too high as well, wouldnt want her falling and hurting herself, especially considering her possible bone condition.. then you would really be in trouble with vet costs! Did you get her from a petstore?

You can encourage her to drink by dripping water on her nose and letting her lick it off. another alternative is to give her a bath in some luke warm water and perhaps she will drink from that too.

Oh and for the record, those bowls you have in there.. you couldve gotten regular boring bowls.. might have saved you some $$ and still serve the same purpose.. ya know for future reference

I've been misting her greens and watering down the baby food.

I didn't get her from a pet store, I got her from a breeder at a reptile expo last sunday and she was happy and healthy until this past Friday. Since Friday her condition has improved but I am still concerned about the possibility that she may have a bone condition.

my my my:tears:

have you tried contacting the breeder? the breeder i have delt with has been wonderful and backs his animals 100%, he especially takes the time to try and help everyway he can... perhaps you could give him/her a call and explain the situation and see if its something they can help with. again good luck!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kanarybird

Problem was that I bought the initial setup and it was wrong in every way (the retailer has since heard my ferocious roar). Then I needed to purchase new everything...

Anyhoo, she's eaten very well today, her limbs are much more dextrous, she is much more active and her eyes are open and alert.

Here are some pictures of her and her enclosure (i got my camera back today!!)...

http://www.johnkanary.com/personal/yoko_1.jpg

http://www.johnkanary.com/personal/yoko_2.jpg

Any feedback is cool...

I've got her in a 20L (for now) with a patio stone (which I boiled) a repti-glo clamp (for heat) a powersun (for UV) and Ceramic Tiles for substrate (under suggestion by BeardedDragon). The Temps are 105-110 and 85-90.

Thanks.

:cool:

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The tank looks good! Your maybe the first person to go out and buy the things i recommend to you the first day:D you do how ever need to make the power sun at least 12 inches from the basking platform, it looks farther than that in the picture. It was nice talking you in chat! - Matt

does "Spring mix" contain spinach? Because spinach should NEVER be fed to a BD. it binds the calcium in their body which could easily contribute to a calcium deficit.
You should be bathing your BD at least 3 times a week for 10-15 mins. Many/most BDs do not drink, and misting does not do much anything for a dragon that wont lap it up as it drips down its face (http://bearded-dragons.com/boards/index.php backs me up on all these facts, they're an excellent resource and I highly recommend you check them out).

You're doing great by eliminating a particulate substrate like calcisand and moving to tile, it's the most easy to maintain and safe substrate for BDs in my opinion. If your dragon is refusing food or has trouble with impaction I recommend raising your basking temp (surface temp, measured with either a digital probe or laser, not a stick-on-the-wall piece of doody ;)) to 115F to help her digest. Also adding a drop of olive oil to soft food like squash will help her pass any impacted calcisand or chitin shells that may be lodged in her gut.

what protein are you feeding her at the moment? try switching to a low chitin-to-protein-ratio food like silkworms or hornworms. most picky dragons go nuts for such 'delicacies', but unlike superworms (NEVER FEED THOSE) they are actually a good 'treat' for the dragon. :D

i can't pimp out bearded-dragons.com enough, seriously. beautifuldragons.com also has a great feeding sheet which you could benefit from a lot, it tells you which greens are most appropriate and which should never be fed.

and last but not least, when it is financially viable for you (and be serious with your finances, your pet is in need of medical care. skip a few meals out and make a sandwich for lunch or something, every buck counts) take her to an experienced vet. she needs a fecal done to determine if parasites are robbing her of what nutrition she's getting and if she's got any underlying causes for her problems.

your setup looks pretty nice there! You're doing a great job. :)