Slow growers

is there any way i can make my baby grow faster?like i heard about feeding smaller portions twice a week,does it work?any info in appreciated!

NO.
Do not power feed your snake or your snake will die.
Snakes grow at their own pace.
Feed appropriately sized prey every 7 days.

i have one that is a 06 that i fed weekly, who is now almost 500 grams,
and had one that was also an 06 that i fed weekly who at the time i sold her [about a month ago] was just almost 200 grams....

dont try and force them to grow... you will just get an over weight snake. or as starmom said, a dead one..

Power feeding dramatically shortens their life span.
If you want something that grows fast- get a rat ;)

ok i was just wondering

dont want no rat but the snake does LOL

I know it's frustrating to have a slow grower. :) My young normal female is about 14 months old and only recently topped 500g, and I have a female corn snake (raised on a maintenance diet, unfortunately) that is almost a year old and is still the size of a hatchling!

Take heart, feed them one properly sized prey item every 5 days at most, and just enjoy them no matter the size! :)

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Originally Posted by Argentra

I know it's frustrating to have a slow grower. :) My young normal female is about 14 months old and only recently topped 500g, and I have a female corn snake (raised on a maintenance diet, unfortunately) that is almost a year old and is still the size of a hatchling!

Take heart, feed them one properly sized prey item every 5 days at most, and just enjoy them no matter the size! :)

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Argentra: The OP just picked up the snake brand new!!! :rolleye2:

Ah. :oops::P Well, in case it turns out to be slow, what I said still stands!

Cut me some slack, I had to wake up really early and sit outside at a yard sale for 5 hours. :)

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Originally Posted by krazieness_2

is there any way i can make my baby grow faster?like i heard about feeding smaller portions twice a week,does it work?any info in appreciated!

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Why do you want to make him grow faster?

Just feed your snake an appropriate size prey once a week and it will grow just fine there is NO RUSH, just enjoy see him grow.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Why do you want to make him grow faster?

Just feed your snake an appropriate size prey once a week and it will grow just fine there is NO RUSH, just enjoy see him grow.

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I second that I was lucky and my girl happened to grow fast well IMO. pushing 1200g at 2 years.

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Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

I second that I was lucky and my girl happened to grow fast well IMO. pushing 1200g at 2 years.

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I have 2 girls from NERD who are pushing 1100g at one year :O
I have yearlings who are 900g and yearlings who are closer to 500g and one little yearling who is 200g!!!
They all grow differently....and they have all been fed the same prey and on the same schedule ;)

I have a VERY slow grower. She is the most picky eater I have ever seen. She is almost 2 years old and is 400g :( No matter what I try she will only eat periodically. lol The only snake that I am biting at the bit to grow to breeding size as she is my only 100% het for albino. I am willing to wait and offer food every week.

Don't worry they will grow at their own pace. Good luck

I consider my self fortunate to have a bunch of garbage disposals that grow like crazy

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Originally Posted by starmom

Do not power feed your snake or your snake will die.

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That's a pretty generalized, and harsh statement. I am not saying that power-feeding is the best thing for an unexperienced owner. However, that statement is not true in any regard.

To the OP. Some good advice was given in this thread. There is no need to rush things. If you want to have a bigger snake, then buy one that is a yearling or older.

Tim, I must respectfully disagree.

The OP just got the snake and wants information on putting girth and size on it quickly.

Being a new snake keeper, this course of action will invariably lead to either regurg or vomiting (depending on where in the digestion process the rodent is when the action happens.) Already being impatient, the most likely scenario is that the new snake keeper will not wait weeks to feed it a smaller prey, but will just carry forth with trying to put as much into the snake as possible.

As I'm sure you know, compounding the issue of regurg or vomiting is the real danger and probability of the gastric fluids going into the glottis and causing RI's.

Also, it is well documented that obese snakes are shorter lived snakes; having death come earlier due to power feeding by their keepers.

I believe that we all have a responsibility to these animals to spread correct husbandry and feeding procedures to new snake owners and existing snake owners; especially those smart enough to be asking questions, as in the case of the OP.

Lastly, you left out he rest of my post. Here is the whole thing:
NO.
Do not power feed your snake or your snake will die.
Snakes grow at their own pace.
Feed appropriately sized prey every 7 days.

I feel that this post is still correct.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by starmom

Tim, I must respectfully disagree.

The OP just got the snake and wants information on putting girth and size on it quickly.

Being a new snake keeper, this course of action will invariably lead to either regurg or vomiting (depending on where in the digestion process the rodent is when the action happens.) Already being impatient, the most likely scenario is that the new snake keeper will not wait weeks to feed it a smaller prey, but will just carry forth with trying to put as much into the snake as possible.

As I'm sure you know, compounding the issue of regurg or vomiting is the real danger and probability of the gastric fluids going into the glottis and causing RI's.

Also, it is well documented that obese snakes are shorter lived snakes; having death come earlier due to power feeding by their keepers.

I believe that we all have a responsibility to these animals to spread correct husbandry and feeding procedures to new snake owners and existing snake owners; especially those smart enough to be asking questions, as in the case of the OP.

Lastly, you left out he rest of my post. Here is the whole thing:
NO.
Do not power feed your snake or your snake will die.
Snakes grow at their own pace.
Feed appropriately sized prey every 7 days.

I feel that this post is still correct.

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First off, I would like to apologize to the OP for slightly derailing the thread.

Starmom. I understand your disagreement, regarding the issue as it concerns a new and unexperienced keeper. I stated that in my post. I do not want to get into what may be deemed "correct power feeding", as I believe that is a topic for advanced husbandry. However, I do believe it has a place.

I will agree that if done improperly, regurgitation can occur. I have not heard of an RI caused by gastric fluids, but I am not staing that i can't happen.

As for leaving out the rest of your thread, I fully agree with what I left out, and did not need to comment on it. I only captured the part of your original thread that I disagreed with.

Each of us is entilitled to an opinion, and I agree that you are giving a new owner the best possible advice.

Respectfully,

FWIW, on the advice of Kara and other breeders that I respect, I DO feed my babies every 5 days. Only when they are a year old do I move them to once every 7 days.

Some will even argue that you can't power feed ball pythons, because they WILL fast to catch up if they are fed too much.

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Originally Posted by Argentra

I know it's frustrating to have a slow grower. :) My young normal female is about 14 months old and only recently topped 500g, and I have a female corn snake (raised on a maintenance diet, unfortunately) that is almost a year old and is still the size of a hatchling!

Take heart, feed them one properly sized prey item every 5 days at most, and just enjoy them no matter the size! :)

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That is how my 07 corns are, I cant get them to grow for there lives...lol. My ball is also a slow grower, she is an 06 and 550. She is picking the pace up thought, with a huge gain, so I imagine she is ready to really grow.

Starmom, I am curious where your wealth of experience comes from? Also, where are you getting your information from? Do you have any scientific data to back it up? I've always fed hatchlings every 5 days without a problem.

I got the info for that post from the Barker's book ;)
I too feed young one's every 5 days- until they reach about 200g. However, the OP was asking about feeding twice a week ;)

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Originally Posted by starmom

NO.
Do not power feed your snake or your snake will die.
Snakes grow at their own pace.
Feed appropriately sized prey every 7 days.

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[RANT] OK, please list one time where a snake died from eating a smaller sized prey item 2x a week as the OP inquired about....

sorry, just because you read one book does not IMO give you the ability to state such info as strict fact[/endRANT]

OK, I feel better now :D

Why do you choose to rant? I think it's fine to discuss without ranting.
As for your questions behind the rant: I can not give you an example because I choose to follow the advice of educated experts in the field of herpetology. I don't want to play lab science with my snakes...
I am okay with following the advice of others; isn't it how we learn and grow??

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Originally Posted by starmom

Why do you choose to rant? I think it's fine to discuss without ranting.
As for your questions behind the rant: I can not give you an example because I choose to follow the advice of educated experts in the field of herpetology. I don't want to play lab science with my snakes...
I am okay with following the advice of others; isn't it how we learn and grow??

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I see what you're saying, but sometimes you have to try new things. I bet that book you read mentions not breeding males until 18 months and 800 grams right? I guess all the folks that bred their 07's this season at 350+ grams are killing their snakes too right???

Ahhh, that is a different discussion and ought to be a different post. However.....

I believe that breeding is done when the breeder knows the snake and when the best results can be obtained. Sometimes that is at 18 months and 1200g for females and very much sooner and lighter for males.

As for what the books on BP's have to say, I can't recall off hand. You can look it up if you choose. I don't need to because I understand what my breeding will consist of and when ;)
I suppose if I need to support my choices... well, I'll wait for that day and that discussion....

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Originally Posted by starmom

I got the info for that post from the Barker's book ;)

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Well, there's that.

Maybe in the future you could answer questions like this without the scare tactics and quote where your knowledge came from if not from hands on experience.

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Originally Posted by starmom

I got the info for that post from the Barker's book ;)
I too feed young one's every 5 days- until they reach about 200g. However, the OP was asking about feeding twice a week ;)

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I would call that twice in one week. ;) You do it until 200 grams, I do every 4-5 days until they are about a year old. :)

alright so every 5 days wouldnt harm her?its not that im impatient i was just wondering as i dont really know all that much about BPs but thank you for all the good advice...
so if i feed every 5 days should it be a normal sized prey or smaller?

also what does OP mean?sorry i know im a newbie lol

OP means Original Poster (you in this case).

If she/he is a baby, you should be fine offering an appropriately sized prey item every five days. If they start to fast, pull back to once every 7 days.

alright thank you

you should have gotten an adult snake if you knew you were going to be frusterated by the growing process, just sit back and enjoy

I have an 07 who is fed once a week 1 adult mouse and then moved on to 1 small rat a week and she has grown well. she is now 856 grams. when i got her she was 182. took about 6 months.:8:

i have an 06 female who is at 900 grams +/- a few grams and i have an 07 male that is growing like a weed every week he feeds i got him at 70 grams and now hes a whooping 400 - 500 grams

McKinsey, I think you will find with time, more experience and a larger collection that almost nothing is absolutely cut in stone with these snakes or how people choose to keep them. While somethings can be taken as a given, and usually the best way for a newcomer to deal with learning to care for their snake - very few things in my experience thus far are if you do X - Y will absolutely happen absolutely everytime.

I feed young snakes as well every 5 days until they reach a certain weight or whenever I believe that specific snake is ready to go to every 7 days. That does work out to twice a calendar week on some weeks so a bit of clarification is required there I think. Tim has a lot of experience with a lot of snakes, his advice is based on that wealth of hands on experience.

To the OP, you've hopefully learned from this thread is that there is more than one feeding routine choice. What every choice though shares in common is that none of them push a snake to eat to the point of excess or to trigger a regurge or a fast. None of the people posting are pushing their snakes to grow up fast - just to grow naturally with good health based on a well thought out feeding plan for that snake. :)

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Originally Posted by hondo1967

I have an 07 who is fed once a week 1 adult mouse and then moved on to 1 small rat a week and she has grown well. she is now 856 grams. when i got her she was 182. took about 6 months.:8:

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Originally Posted by Monty

i have an 06 female who is at 900 grams +/- a few grams and i have an 07 male that is growing like a weed every week he feeds i got him at 70 grams and now hes a whooping 400 - 500 grams

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ok how bout i beat both you guys and tell you about my sept '06 female who, on a weekly feeding schedule, made it to 1100g by sept '07 only to start breeding by november '07 and then off to lay a nice clutch of 6 eggs for me in may '08.

yess can you feel that!?!:banana:

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Originally Posted by bigballs

ok how bout i beat both you guys and tell you about my sept '06 female who, on a weekly feeding schedule, made it to 1100g by sept '07 only to start breeding by november '07 and then off to lay a nice clutch of 6 eggs for me in may '08.

yess can you feel that!?!:banana:

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thats crazy must be mutant rats or something in the water

What is the definition of power feeding? I see people talk about it, and say it's bad but noone ever says what it is.... I've always wondered about power feeding, but never saw anywhere that actually explained what it was...

Alan

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Originally Posted by bigballs

ok how bout i beat both you guys and tell you about my sept '06 female who, on a weekly feeding schedule, made it to 1100g by sept '07 only to start breeding by november '07 and then off to lay a nice clutch of 6 eggs for me in may '08.

yess can you feel that!?!:banana:

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The incredible hulk python.:bow:

Power feeding is feeding prey to big or just plain over feeding the snake to get size quickly. Not a healthy thing to do for your snake.:gj:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

McKinsey, I think you will find with time, more experience and a larger collection that almost nothing is absolutely cut in stone with these snakes or how people choose to keep them. While somethings can be taken as a given, and usually the best way for a newcomer to deal with learning to care for their snake - very few things in my experience thus far are if you do X - Y will absolutely happen absolutely everytime.

I feed young snakes as well every 5 days until they reach a certain weight or whenever I believe that specific snake is ready to go to every 7 days. That does work out to twice a calendar week on some weeks so a bit of clarification is required there I think. Tim has a lot of experience with a lot of snakes, his advice is based on that wealth of hands on experience.

To the OP, you've hopefully learned from this thread is that there is more than one feeding routine choice. What every choice though shares in common is that none of them push a snake to eat to the point of excess or to trigger a regurge or a fast. None of the people posting are pushing their snakes to grow up fast - just to grow naturally with good health based on a well thought out feeding plan for that snake. :)

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Jo, I agree! I also have learned that on this site (and it may have Judy who said this) that it is best with someone who has JUST purchased their snake to give them the basic tried and true husbandry advice so that they can have the very best results from the starting line. This is what I was attempting to do; apparently with poor results. However, I did my best in the moment of the action.

I fully realize that books and research papers that I have and have read are only the jumping off place when it comes to dealing with issues 'real time'. I also fully realize that I have only 13 ball pythons and that does not compare, and will never compare, to a keeper having hundreds. However, even caring for one ball python ought to allow for an exchange of information and knowledge and experience. I am thankful that on this forum it does.

I also fully realize that there are so many different methodologies one can employ to keep these snakes successfully; from environments to feeding to breeding; I think that John (Jas) was a really good teacher for that. However, and again, we've been asked to give the tried and true methods to a new snake keeper who is also new to ball pythons.

As for Tim's response, it was explanatory and thoughtful and I completely understood what he was saying. I appreciate discussion with an exchange of information and void of harsh stances and emotional and belittling outbursts. I felt that Tim's response was excellent and certainly followed implied rules of intellectual discussion and sharing.

As for Variable 1 leading always to Variable 2, I am fully aware of that fallacy. I have had experiences with my own snakes that back that folly up ;) But again, a new owner stating impatience of growth rate and wanting to know if it's okay to feed 2x a week suggests power feeding to me and that can lead to disastrous results with keepers who have just gotten their very first snake. Again, I was trying to follow the rules for advice to new snake keepers.

I really don't know what more to say. I guess I will just end this with the assurance that I always always always try my hardest to give the best possible advice to new snake owners and I keep it on a tried and true basis. I also always always always listen to the advice and discussions of the more advanced herpers on this forum. From that point, I distill the information, learn from my snakes, employ independent thought, and go forward...

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Originally Posted by hondo1967

Power feeding is feeding prey to big or just plain over feeding the snake to get size quickly. Not a healthy thing to do for your snake.:gj:

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Isn't powerfeeding when your snake is eating a prey item and when its starting to be swallowed you put another one in their mouth so their forced to swallow that one too?!?!?!

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Originally Posted by PhillyBoyInTN

Isn't powerfeeding when your snake is eating a prey item and when its starting to be swallowed you put another one in their mouth so their forced to swallow that one too?!?!?!

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Yeah thats what I though too, a form of force feeding.

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Originally Posted by tideguyinva

dont want no rat but the snake does LOL

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oh rats r awesome pets i loved mine so much, but they have a short lifespan. but i love snakes even more.

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Originally Posted by starmom

NO.
Do not power feed your snake or your snake will die.
Snakes grow at their own pace.
Feed appropriately sized prey every 7 days.

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McKinsey, this post I have issues with.

#1 You are assuming that this person is power feeding or contemplating doing so. Purely from what they typed, making that assumption is not fair to the OP.

#2 Nor is telling them "your snake will die". Their snake might die, it might not. It might keel over tomorrow for some other reason or it might live 30 more years. Again, you can't assume a result from an assumed action. Saying "your snake will die" (my underline) is a statement of fact. You don't know this for a fact any more than you know this person is intending or is in fact powerfeeding.

#3 It's been stated by more than one person that they feed young snakes every 5 days. None of them is powerfeeding. When giving advice to newcomers I find it best to offer them options and explain in full why these options make sense so they understand why something is suggested. Scaring them into acceptance teaches nothing.

I have to agree with Jo I have three or four animals that were fed every 5 days from the time they were babys till they hit 1000 grams or showed signs of slowing down I.E skipping every other meal. Now I feed nothing larger than a smal rat and they get weaned rats till they get to be 800+ grams And all of them are healthy and feed every week with out fail. I wouldn't suggest it to everyone but its the way I do things. They are not fat nore are they over fed they ate because they could handle it. Then I have two animals that were fed every 7 days and they are some of the worst eaters I have.

Now with that said Power Feeding can have advers affects if over done. But for some one that knows thir snakes then feeding every 5 days or even every three is not a problem.

in the end its what you KNOW not feel your animals can handle.

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Originally Posted by PhillyBoyInTN

Isn't powerfeeding when your snake is eating a prey item and when its starting to be swallowed you put another one in their mouth so their forced to swallow that one too?!?!?!

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Hi,

I've always heard this called either "following on" or "chain feeding".


dr del

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Originally Posted by starmom

Jo, I agree! I also have learned that on this site (and it may have Judy who said this) that it is best with someone who has JUST purchased their snake to give them the basic tried and true husbandry advice so that they can have the very best results from the starting line. This is what I was attempting to do; apparently with poor results. However, I did my best in the moment of the action.

I fully realize that books and research papers that I have and have read are only the jumping off place when it comes to dealing with issues 'real time'. I also fully realize that I have only 13 ball pythons and that does not compare, and will never compare, to a keeper having hundreds. However, even caring for one ball python ought to allow for an exchange of information and knowledge and experience. I am thankful that on this forum it does.

I also fully realize that there are so many different methodologies one can employ to keep these snakes successfully; from environments to feeding to breeding; I think that John (Jas) was a really good teacher for that. However, and again, we've been asked to give the tried and true methods to a new snake keeper who is also new to ball pythons.

As for Tim's response, it was explanatory and thoughtful and I completely understood what he was saying. I appreciate discussion with an exchange of information and void of harsh stances and emotional and belittling outbursts. I felt that Tim's response was excellent and certainly followed implied rules of intellectual discussion and sharing.

As for Variable 1 leading always to Variable 2, I am fully aware of that fallacy. I have had experiences with my own snakes that back that folly up ;) But again, a new owner stating impatience of growth rate and wanting to know if it's okay to feed 2x a week suggests power feeding to me and that can lead to disastrous results with keepers who have just gotten their very first snake. Again, I was trying to follow the rules for advice to new snake keepers.

I really don't know what more to say. I guess I will just end this with the assurance that I always always always try my hardest to give the best possible advice to new snake owners and I keep it on a tried and true basis. I also always always always listen to the advice and discussions of the more advanced herpers on this forum. From that point, I distill the information, learn from my snakes, employ independent thought, and go forward...

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Maybe sometimes it's better to just sit back and let others with hands on experience with a larger number of animals give advice rather than regurgitating information from a book you've read. Give advice when you have personal experience on the subject. That's how everyone learns and grows.

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Originally Posted by PhillyBoyInTN

Isn't powerfeeding when your snake is eating a prey item and when its starting to be swallowed you put another one in their mouth so their forced to swallow that one too?!?!?!

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Yes, that's what I know powerfeeding to be as well. Feeding twice a week is not considered powerfeeding. If the snake isn't hungry, it won't eat when offered the second time that week.

i consider power feeding any method of feeding in which the keeper's intentions are to grow their animals as big and as quickly as possible.

many snakes will easily eat twice or three times a week if allowed but most dont need to. if we know our animals then we know which ones should get more or less food. maybe young ones need to eat every five days but if they are nice and plump and healthy eating every seven then thats fine as well. maybe an adult female who just laid a clutch of eggs begs to be fed twice or three times a week and you allow it just cuz you know its whats best for her or maybe not.

so to answer the OPs question i would say feed one appropriate sized rodent once a week. thats what i was taught and i learned from there. there are always exceptions and with time and experience you will learn what those exceptions are for each indivdual animal under your care.

and dont take it only from me, look at all theses experienced people who you can learn from!:gj: youll get all types of answers so be a little educated on the topic so you can weed out what you dont need.