feeding house mice

if i kill a mouse in a trap in my house, is that ok to feed my ball? i haven't but it would save some money if that is safe. thanks

Wild mice are usually loaded with parasites. Please don't feed to your snake :O

your joking right?

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Originally Posted by bigj539

if i kill a mouse in a trap in my house, is that ok to feed my ball? i haven't but it would save some money if that is safe. thanks

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i would not recommend doing this at all.

wild mice can carry parasites, pesticides, toxins and other nasties. You'll end up spending way more on vet bills if the mice are carrying something than just footing the bill for some feeders.

i dont know much about live feeders, but ive never seen them cost more than 1.35 for mice. my girl is on frozen/thawd and that is cheap. 40.00 for about two months worth of food, even less now that i found a new place and thats when i buy 20 of them at a shot and just keep them in a small spare freezer.

if live is too expensive, you can always breed your own or switch your guy to frozen thawed.

Hi,

There is also the possibility is the mouse has been in other places where they use poison as a control method - for the price of a feeder mouse it seems an awfully big risk. :weirdface


dr del

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Originally Posted by bigj539

if i kill a mouse in a trap in my house, is that ok to feed my ball? i haven't but it would save some money if that is safe. thanks

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Ok, DEFINITELY NOT.
If you invested in a ball python you need to consider spending 15 dollars at least a month on feeder mice from a petshop, or breeding your own.

1) The house mice contain terrible parasites and other various diseases.

2) You don't know where its been! It could have ran through some rat poison or mold and you could end up killing your snake.

3) Your seriously going to catch it in the act of being caught? Realistically, no house mouse is going to come out unless your asleep in the middle of the night. This gives the dead mouse eh a good 2-5 hours of being dead. It'll stiffen up and get cold.

So basically, bad idea. :]

are you kidding?
wow, there are things all up in those mice that freezing and bleach prolly wouldnt even kill...

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Originally Posted by bigj539

if i kill a mouse in a trap in my house, is that ok to feed my ball? i haven't but it would save some money if that is safe. thanks

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Nope it would not! :colbert:

How much are mouse traps? If your looking to save money by not buying a mouse which is only $1.25 there may be a bigger problem.

jeeze people are jumping all over me. theres a reason i asked before i did it. chill out. and to those of you who answered my question thoroughly and respectfully, thank you.

you needed to be jumped on.the most you'd have to pay is 5 dollars a week for a rat.less than a dollar a day.if you cant afford that you need to find a new home for your snake.wat happens if it gets sick and a vet visit is necessary?are you gonna have 40 dollars for the visit plus the medication?sorry if a few of us were harsh but your question and reason is pathetic

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Originally Posted by Butters420

you needed to be jumped on.the most you'd have to pay is 5 dollars a week for a rat.less than a dollar a day.if you cant afford that you need to find a new home for your snake.wat happens if it gets sick and a vet visit is necessary?are you gonna have 40 dollars for the visit plus the medication?sorry if a few of us were harsh but your question and reason is pathetic

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Not necessarily.
It's not fair to judge on ones education. Even though yes, he should have researched as much as possible, it is not entirely unrealistic if nothing he researched mentioned 'NO HOUSE MICE'.
He just didn't know. And he did the right thing to ask before doing something that seemed logically stupid to him. Which made him more responsible than people who would just assume and not ask.

:]

Yeah, some people can be a bit "radical" here...like the peta freaks. Calm down guys!! WOW!! Forum is here for the purpose of answering questions! It would of been different if he had already fed his snake a house mouse without asking about it first. Quit trying to drive away newbies with questions!! I love this site but sometimes I find it hard to stomach the way legitimate questions are replied to here.

Peta doesn't believe in the keeping of pets. I'm not sure how many PETA folk are members here, but isn't your judgment of the entire site a bit radical as well?

Not everyone is going to reply as you'd like, not everyone jumped on this guy either. Out of the hundreds of members coming to this site everyday, only a handful of people replied.

Well as it is, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. If you find something you dont necessarily agree with, you can always give them a rep point voicing that.

Not to mention only a couple people were even harsh. Almost everyone who replied, replied with reasons why you shouldn't feed a house mouse caught in a trap.
And PETA? Where did you even come up with that? You're more radical than the replies here.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Not to mention only a couple people were even harsh. Almost everyone who replied, replied with reasons why you shouldn't feed a house mouse caught in a trap.
And PETA? Where did you even come up with that? You're more radical than the replies here.

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Amen!!!!

Someone is asking a question...asking for a little help & you act like he has been feeding his snake house mice forever!! Keep getting mad about my "rant" you need to.

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Originally Posted by bigj539

jeeze people are jumping all over me.

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Quite the contrary, In my opinion. Below is a lot of information. Blunt? yes. why? Because the question you asked...while it is a good and legitimate question...is simply scary just to think about. You're surrounded by people who care very much about their animals, and when someone is considering doing something that could harm their snake, you better believe they will get a little ancy to let you know why you should/should not do something.

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Originally Posted by starmom

Wild mice are usually loaded with parasites. Please don't feed to your snake :O

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Originally Posted by clockwork

i would not recommend doing this at all.

wild mice can carry parasites, pesticides, toxins and other nasties. You'll end up spending way more on vet bills if the mice are carrying something than just footing the bill for some feeders.

i dont know much about live feeders, but ive never seen them cost more than 1.35 for mice. my girl is on frozen/thawd and that is cheap. 40.00 for about two months worth of food, even less now that i found a new place and thats when i buy 20 of them at a shot and just keep them in a small spare freezer.

if live is too expensive, you can always breed your own or switch your guy to frozen thawed.

---

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

There is also the possibility is the mouse has been in other places where they use poison as a control method - for the price of a feeder mouse it seems an awfully big risk. :weirdface


dr del

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

Ok, DEFINITELY NOT.
If you invested in a ball python you need to consider spending 15 dollars at least a month on feeder mice from a petshop, or breeding your own.

1) The house mice contain terrible parasites and other various diseases.

2) You don't know where its been! It could have ran through some rat poison or mold and you could end up killing your snake.

3) Your seriously going to catch it in the act of being caught? Realistically, no house mouse is going to come out unless your asleep in the middle of the night. This gives the dead mouse eh a good 2-5 hours of being dead. It'll stiffen up and get cold.

So basically, bad idea. :]

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Originally Posted by ChicaPiton519

are you kidding?
wow, there are things all up in those mice that freezing and bleach prolly wouldnt even kill...

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Originally Posted by FIREball

How much are mouse traps? If your looking to save money by not buying a mouse which is only $1.25 there may be a bigger problem.

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Originally Posted by Butters420

you needed to be jumped on.the most you'd have to pay is 5 dollars a week for a rat.less than a dollar a day.if you cant afford that you need to find a new home for your snake.wat happens if it gets sick and a vet visit is necessary?are you gonna have 40 dollars for the visit plus the medication?sorry if a few of us were harsh but your question and reason is pathetic

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Now...going back to this little portion:

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Originally Posted by Butters420

you needed to be jumped on.

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No he doesn't. He needs to be educated, which there were plenty of responses with excellent information :)

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

Not necessarily.
It's not fair to judge on ones education. Even though yes, he should have researched as much as possible, it is not entirely unrealistic if nothing he researched mentioned 'NO HOUSE MICE'.
He just didn't know. And he did the right thing to ask before doing something that seemed logically stupid to him. Which made him more responsible than people who would just assume and not ask.

:]

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Originally Posted by sharilynn

Yeah, some people can be a bit "radical" here...like the peta freaks.Calm down guys!! WOW!! Forum is here for the purpose of answering questions! It would of been different if he had already fed his snake a house mouse without asking about it first. Quit trying to drive away newbies with questions!! I love this site but sometimes I find it hard to stomach the way legitimate questions are replied to here.

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Originally Posted by sharilynn

Someone is asking a question...asking for a little help & you act like he has been feeding his snake house mice forever!! Keep getting mad about my "rant" you need to.

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His questions were answered...very well, i might add. The answers to his question contained facts and real concerns, which is why some people may be a little straight forward and eager to make sure he knows the consequences of his actions.

bigj539, I'm sorry you feel that some were being harsh in their response...just understand that people here are simply trying to make sure you make the best decisions you can for your animals.
I wish you the best of luck to you and your bp hobby :)

Hi bigj! Well done for asking first! I don't yet own a ball python and wanted to research first.

Just chatting to some friends about wanting a snake the other week... A friend said "If we get any more mice in our loft, I will give them you then". (She just meant it in a friendly sociable way, as a non-reptile owner). So people do make an assumption it's OK as wild snakes get wild prey. :O

Perhaps you bigj had mice in the house and thought it would be convenient.

Hey ho. I had already read somewhere before that feeding wild rodents to your pet snake is a no no. At least now you know, which is what forums are about, finding out advice and tips.

Nonetheless knowledge is only knowledge if you have read it or been told it before.

I agree what other pet only eats so little?! I wish I could live on just one meal a week LOL.

Fiona :)

I think sometimes people forget that some of the posters on these forums are very young, 14 or 15 year old kids.

If they are asking a question with good intent and they are trying to do the right thing they deserve a polite reply.

Everyone :grouphug: :rofl:

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Originally Posted by Sonya610

I think sometimes people forget that some of the posters on these forums are very young, 14 or 15 year old kids.

If they are asking a question with good intent and they are trying to do the right thing they deserve a polite reply.

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haha

I wouldn't do it. A wild mice could have some bad parasites and bacteria. Better safe then sorry.

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Originally Posted by bigj539

jeeze people are jumping all over me. theres a reason i asked before i did it. chill out. and to those of you who answered my question thoroughly and respectfully, thank you.

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No one is jumping all over you. They are trying to make sure you don't end up with a sick or worse, dead snake. Perhaps in reading their responses you read something more into it than I'm sure they intended.

I will give you an example to illustrate the point of the seriousness of this. When I was a kid we had a really nice black cat. He snuck out one day and ended up exploring a neighbours property. Apparently that neighbour used rodent poisons. We found our cat dead and on examination by the vet it was determined he died from ingesting a rodent full of poison. I'm sure it was a horrible death for our cat and it caused our family a lot of grief and guilt feelings over not closing a door fast enough.

None of us would like to see that happen to your snake or see you have to deal with the vet bills that parasites can cause. You asked and you got straight answers about the risks of feeding wild prey to captive animals.

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Originally Posted by sharilynn

Someone is asking a question...asking for a little help & you act like he has been feeding his snake house mice forever!! Keep getting mad about my "rant" you need to.

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No we don't "need" to, any more than you need to taunt members to do so.

He asked and he got straight answers with the reasons why it was an unsafe husbandry decision. I'm sorry that you seem to think plain speaking based on real experience, giving reasons behind the information, is not a correct way to respond to a question.

I saw you respond like this, I didn't however note a post where you gave this OP any advice regarding his actual question.

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Originally Posted by sharilynn

Yeah, some people can be a bit "radical" here...like the peta freaks. Calm down guys!! WOW!! Forum is here for the purpose of answering questions! It would of been different if he had already fed his snake a house mouse without asking about it first. Quit trying to drive away newbies with questions!! I love this site but sometimes I find it hard to stomach the way legitimate questions are replied to here.

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Acting like PETA freaks would be because people are concerned about the “poor little wild mouse” this is not the case, people are concerned about the health of the OP snake.

Feeding wild rodents can be very hazardous. The worth that can happen is the death of the snake in question, too bad you cannot see this and feel the need to call people PETA freaks which is uncalled for!

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Originally Posted by sharilynn

Keep getting mad about my "rant" you need to.

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People are not mad about YOUR rant they are trying to educate you about the fact that it's not ok to feed wild rodents.

People also try to educate you about what PETA is since you do not seem to know what they are really about, judging by the way you use their name as an insult.

I have much to respond to!

- Peta does agree to the keeping of pets, just against the ways they are kept! We also don't like & are against breeders & exploiting animals! We believe if you need to have a pet, to save / rescue it instead of buying them from a breeder or pet stores. These places have been more focused on the financial profit rather than the care of the animal & their ethical treatment! Though we wish in a perfect world all animals can be free & roam like all creatures, humans as well, but that is something that we know is fairly impossible & know might never happen. So in knowing this we are trying to better the lives & rights of the animals! I would copy & paste a quote or two but my experience from other forums, I think that is against regulations & is a cause for banning.

- I had the same question & google'ed "House mice & Ball Python"! My husband & I are first time Snake Parents & in debate about this topic. I say they are dangerous because they are wild & carry unknown bacteria that could harm her. As for him, he thinks a mouse is a mouse! As I was looking I found my question answered on the very site I use to help me raise my Fluffy, THIS ONE! This site has helped me learn alot about Fluffy & almost everything question I had has already been asked & answered before I even posted it! For that I am very grateful!

With that said I do agree some people are harsh at their answers to the point it would make me afraid to ask any question I had in fear of judged & verbally attacked! I wouldn't ask if I wasn't in need of knowledge to better care for Fluffy. But to be scared to ask because of the harshness of the reply is not only unnecessary but it is also threatening to the life of the snake! If people are too scared to ask they wont & will go on their best bet & in doing so might risk the lives of their pet!

- Bigj539 felt they were attacked & its not our place to say if they were or weren't. We cant tell people what they feel. We can only apologize if we made them feel a way we didn't mean to. I personally don't think they were talking about everyone who responded because some answers were very informative & non judgmental!

- Responding with a question of their seniority of the question, will just make someone feel like they aren't taken seriously. Responding with the criticism of their financial responsibility, will just make someone feel unworthy. Responding with a scolding, will just make someone feel very belittled. Why would we want to make anyone feel like this if we don't want to feel this way ourselves? We can express our shock & dismay in a form that isn't so painful!

In closing I would like to thank everyone for their answers to this question & now I have plenty to share with my husband when he gets home! Fluffy thanks you guys as well I'm sure!

Holy crap talk about raising a thread from the dead...
And your a peta member to boot :rofl:

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Originally Posted by WytchOfTheNight

I have much to respond to!

- Peta does agree to the keeping of pets, just against the ways they are kept! We also don't like & are against breeders & exploiting animals! We believe if you need to have a pet, to save / rescue it instead of buying them from a breeder or pet stores. These places have been more focused on the financial profit rather than the care of the animal & their ethical treatment! Though we wish in a perfect world all animals can be free & roam like all creatures, humans as well, but that is something that we know is fairly impossible & know might never happen. So in knowing this we are trying to better the lives & rights of the animals! I would copy & paste a quote or two but my experience from other forums, I think that is against regulations & is a cause for banning.

- I had the same question & google'ed "House mice & Ball Python"! My husband & I are first time Snake Parents & in debate about this topic. I say they are dangerous because they are wild & carry unknown bacteria that could harm her. As for him, he thinks a mouse is a mouse! As I was looking I found my question answered on the very site I use to help me raise my Fluffy, THIS ONE! This site has helped me learn alot about Fluffy & almost everything question I had has already been asked & answered before I even posted it! For that I am very grateful!

With that said I do agree some people are harsh at their answers to the point it would make me afraid to ask any question I had in fear of judged & verbally attacked! I wouldn't ask if I wasn't in need of knowledge to better care for Fluffy. But to be scared to ask because of the harshness of the reply is not only unnecessary but it is also threatening to the life of the snake! If people are too scared to ask they wont & will go on their best bet & in doing so might risk the lives of their pet!

- Bigj539 felt they were attacked & its not our place to say if they were or weren't. We cant tell people what they feel. We can only apologize if we made them feel a way we didn't mean to. I personally don't think they were talking about everyone who responded because some answers were very informative & non judgmental!

- Responding with a question of their seniority of the question, will just make someone feel like they aren't taken seriously. Responding with the criticism of their financial responsibility, will just make someone feel unworthy. Responding with a scolding, will just make someone feel very belittled. Why would we want to make anyone feel like this if we don't want to feel this way ourselves? We can express our shock & dismay in a form that isn't so painful!

In closing I would like to thank everyone for their answers to this question & now I have plenty to share with my husband when he gets home! Fluffy thanks you guys as well I'm sure!

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http://i954.photobucket.com/albums/a...Necromancy.jpg

The thread is 4 years old and bigj539 has left the building long ago ;)

It might be dead to you but I just recently searched this question & was one of the first of the search engine picked up!

If it wasnt allowed to be commented on it would be closed!

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Originally Posted by WytchOfTheNight

I have much to respond to!

- Peta does agree to the keeping of pets, just against the ways they are kept! We also don't like & are against breeders & exploiting animals! We believe if you need to have a pet, to save / rescue it instead of buying them from a breeder or pet stores. These places have been more focused on the financial profit rather than the care of the animal & their ethical treatment! Though we wish in a perfect world all animals can be free & roam like all creatures, humans as well, but that is something that we know is fairly impossible & know might never happen. So in knowing this we are trying to better the lives & rights of the animals! I would copy & paste a quote or two but my experience from other forums, I think that is against regulations & is a cause for banning.

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There is SO much wrong with this, it's almost difficult to know where to start. First of all, at what point did the animals get together and decide that Peta was the ultimate authority on what the "correct" way to keep a pet was?

You don't like, and are against breeders and exploiting animals... Without those evil breeders, animals like our beloved Ball Pythons are collected from the wild, depleting natural populations. The Hog Island Boa is a perfect example. There's a very good possibility they're extinct in the wild. Their numbers were already low, and since they weren't widely recognized as a separate species, or even a distinct subspecies, there were no checks in place to reduce the capture of wild specimens for the pet trade. NOW, it's the evil breeders keeping those animals from vanishing. I'd hardly accuse those breeders of "exploiting" their animals. You know what I DO consider exploitation? Filming and photographing the mistreatment of animals so that those images can be used to generate more income for an organization who uses that money to buy magazine ads, billboards, and television commercials while operating animal shelters that routinely uses euthanasia to deal with,

"animals who are unwanted for one reason or another: because they are aggressive, sick, hurt, elderly, or at death's door and because no good homes exist for them."

I have no problem with Peta humanely euthanizing an animal in order to end the suffering of a dying or incurable animal, but killing aggressive, elderly, hurt, and sick animals because no "good" homes exist for them is simply disgusting to me. If there are no "good" homes, take some of the money used to fund those ad campaigns, and use it to provide care for those animals that Peta has taken responsibility for. For now, Peta would rather spend those dollars putting naked supermodels on billboards.

For the record, Peta most definitely IS against the keeping of pets, and they're more than happy to say so on their website. They openly say that it would be in the best interest of the animals if "pet keeping" never existed, and that it's a "selfish desire to possess animals and receive love from them". But let's get back to what you said. You say you're not against the keeping of pets, and then you go on to say that "...we wish in a perfect world all animals can be free & roam like all creatures, humans as well, but that is something that we know is fairly impossible & know might never happen." Maybe you're missing the contradiction in those statements, but let me point it out to you. You can either agree with the keeping of pets, or you can want all animals to be free and roam. If your idea of a "perfect world" is all animals being free to roam, that's the exact opposite of keeping pets. While I'm on the subject, I'm not a big fan of the term "pets". I prefer "companion animals," and for the record, mankind and his companion animals have had a mutually beneficial relationship since the beginning of recorded history. While I can't back my theory up with science at the moment, I believe that relationship can probably be traced back to the point when the first canids discovered they could make an easy meal of the scraps early hominids threw outside of their caves. That's why your "perfect world" is never going to happen. I, for one, am very glad it won't. If she could communicate, I feel confident my baby Ajja would tell you the same. She'll never have to face a predator, go without food and fresh water, warmth, shelter, or protection, and she will have the absolute best medical care available. What do you think the chances are that she'd have those same certainties in the wild? If you're going to share your life with a companion animal, it's time to disavow that stated goal of a perfect world where all animals roam free. To do otherwise is nothing less than hypocrisy.

For what it's worth, I applaud you for doing some research on caring for your new animal, and I hope you have a long and rewarding relationship with Fluffy.

Well said patientz3ro . . . well said (slow clap started)....

peta, what a joke.
A sick twisted poorly performed joke, but a joke none the less.

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

There is SO much wrong with this, it's almost difficult to know where to start. First of all, at what point did the animals get together and decide that Peta was the ultimate authority on what the "correct" way to keep a pet was?

You don't like, and are against breeders and exploiting animals... Without those evil breeders, animals like our beloved Ball Pythons are collected from the wild, depleting natural populations. The Hog Island Boa is a perfect example. There's a very good possibility they're extinct in the wild. Their numbers were already low, and since they weren't widely recognized as a separate species, or even a distinct subspecies, there were no checks in place to reduce the capture of wild specimens for the pet trade. NOW, it's the evil breeders keeping those animals from vanishing. I'd hardly accuse those breeders of "exploiting" their animals. You know what I DO consider exploitation? Filming and photographing the mistreatment of animals so that those images can be used to generate more income for an organization who uses that money to buy magazine ads, billboards, and television commercials while operating animal shelters that routinely uses euthanasia to deal with,

"animals who are unwanted for one reason or another: because they are aggressive, sick, hurt, elderly, or at death's door and because no good homes exist for them."

I have no problem with Peta humanely euthanizing an animal in order to end the suffering of a dying or incurable animal, but killing aggressive, elderly, hurt, and sick animals because no "good" homes exist for them is simply disgusting to me. If there are no "good" homes, take some of the money used to fund those ad campaigns, and use it to provide care for those animals that Peta has taken responsibility for. For now, Peta would rather spend those dollars putting naked supermodels on billboards.

For the record, Peta most definitely IS against the keeping of pets, and they're more than happy to say so on their website. They openly say that it would be in the best interest of the animals if "pet keeping" never existed, and that it's a "selfish desire to possess animals and receive love from them". But let's get back to what you said. You say you're not against the keeping of pets, and then you go on to say that "...we wish in a perfect world all animals can be free & roam like all creatures, humans as well, but that is something that we know is fairly impossible & know might never happen." Maybe you're missing the contradiction in those statements, but let me point it out to you. You can either agree with the keeping of pets, or you can want all animals to be free and roam. If your idea of a "perfect world" is all animals being free to roam, that's the exact opposite of keeping pets. While I'm on the subject, I'm not a big fan of the term "pets". I prefer "companion animals," and for the record, mankind and his companion animals have had a mutually beneficial relationship since the beginning of recorded history. While I can't back my theory up with science at the moment, I believe that relationship can probably be traced back to the point when the first canids discovered they could make an easy meal of the scraps early hominids threw outside of their caves. That's why your "perfect world" is never going to happen. I, for one, am very glad it won't. If she could communicate, I feel confident my baby Ajja would tell you the same. She'll never have to face a predator, go without food and fresh water, warmth, shelter, or protection, and she will have the absolute best medical care available. What do you think the chances are that she'd have those same certainties in the wild? If you're going to share your life with a companion animal, it's time to disavow that stated goal of a perfect world where all animals roam free. To do otherwise is nothing less than hypocrisy.

For what it's worth, I applaud you for doing some research on caring for your new animal, and I hope you have a long and rewarding relationship with Fluffy.

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I'm really interested to see what she has to say to that...

That might have been the most logical and sensible argument I've ever heard. I'm glad I took the 10 min to read it lol

I have always found it very interesting that some folks say keeping captive animals or breeding them is cruel or exploitative and causes them to suffer. Granted some pet owners are ignorant to their animals needs, neglectful and purchase animals on a whim but most are animal lovers who treat pets better than they treat themselves.

Mother nature on the other hand is much crueler than any pet owner could ever be. In the wild 95% of most species will die and suffer horribly in the process due to dehydration, starvation, injury, disease, predators, etc...
Yes this part of the natural process but they suffer none the less.

In captivity those numbers are more than likely reversed. Animals are fed, cared for, given medical attention and even those with birth defects are given a chance to survive. Sadly the news or animal planet never runs a story of good pet owners or breeders, but only the most extreme shocking cases which gives the public a very negative, distorted and inaccurate view of actual pet ownership and breeding. I myself have spent many thousands of dollars on veterinary care but you won't see positive stories of pet owners or breeders on the news(or media) as it has no shock value which equals poor ratings. Yet how many shows do we see where species are falsely identified, misrepresented, facts completely incorrect or distorted to add to the shock value.

This is fuel for the animal rights extremists.

I once read a very accurate observation someone posted about the difference of animal rights advocates and animal rights extremists. I would say most folks here believe in the ethical and humane treatment of animals, as we are mostly animal lovers and do not like to see animals treated badly. Extremists take this much further and feel animal ownership is a form of slavery and support and even teach people how to make bombs to attack laboratories and scientists that use animals for research. They feel taking a human life or suffering is acceptable in order to save animals from from suffering. I am NOT saying all members of PETA or the HSUS support this behavior but those who are in charge and pull the strings fund and even employ folks who do. THIS IS A FACT. I have researched it and seen it with my own eyes. The even sadder part is all those animal lovers that fall into the first category send $ to these folks not knowing how extreme and distorted the view points the leaders of these organizations actually are. I compare this to religious people and religious extremists or fanatics such as Nazi's, KKK and Jihadists. One of the heads of PETA openly protests against the use of animals for medical research yet her life depends daily on medication that is derived from the exact same process she fights against. If this isn't self righteousness and hypocrisy I don't know what is. It is OK for her to benefit from the experimentation on animals but everyone else whose lives may depends on it are not! The argument is suffering which can pull the heart strings of just about everyone but the FACT still remains that Mother Nature will cause exponentially more suffering than all experiments throughout all of history and for the rest of time could ever do. The difference is of course one is the natural process and the other saves countless lives and human suffering. Once again they have put the suffering of lab rats(which most folks would exterminate if they were running through their house or restaurant) over the suffering and death of human beings. This IMO this is good intentions gone seriously out of control.

PETA and HSUS both employ and finacially support convicted animal rights terrorists who have not only terrorized scientists and labs(which save lives) but also post videos on how to make bombs and do the same. They also KILL animals too but it's justified when they do it, PLEASE!:colbert:

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

I have always found it very interesting that some folks say keeping captive animals or breeding them is cruel or exploitative and causes them to suffer. Granted some pet owners are ignorant to their animals needs, neglectful and purchase animals on a whim but most are animal lovers who treat pets better than they treat themselves.

Mother nature on the other hand is much crueler than any pet owner could ever be. In the wild 95% of most species will die and suffer horribly in the process due to dehydration, starvation, injury, disease, predators, etc...
Yes this part of the natural process but they suffer none the less.

In captivity those numbers are more than likely reversed. Animals are fed, cared for, given medical attention and even those with birth defects are given a chance to survive. Sadly the news or animal planet never runs a story of good pet owners or breeders, but only the most extreme shocking cases which gives the public a very negative, distorted and inaccurate view of actual pet ownership and breeding. I myself have spent many thousands of dollars on veterinary care but you won't see positive stories of pet owners or breeders on the news(or media) as it has no shock value which equals poor ratings. Yet how many shows do we see where species are falsely identified, misrepresented, facts completely incorrect or distorted to add to the shock value.

This is fuel for the animal rights extremists.

I once read a very accurate observation someone posted about the difference of animal rights advocates and animal rights extremists. I would say most folks here believe in the ethical and humane treatment of animals, as we are mostly animal lovers and do not like to see animals treated badly. Extremists take this much further and feel animal ownership is a form of slavery and support and even teach people how to make bombs to attack laboratories and scientists that use animals for research. They feel taking a human life or suffering is acceptable in order to save animals from from suffering. I am NOT saying all members of PETA or the HSUS support this behavior but those who are in charge and pull the strings fund and even employ folks who do. THIS IS A FACT. I have researched it and seen it with my own eyes. The even sadder part is all those animal lovers that fall into the first category send $ to these folks not knowing how extreme and distorted the view points the leaders of these organizations actually are. I compare this to religious people and religious extremists or fanatics such as Nazi's, KKK and Jihadists. One of the heads of PETA openly protests against the use of animals for medical research yet her life depends daily on medication that is derived from the exact same process she fights against. If this isn't self righteousness and hypocrisy I don't know what is. It is OK for her to benefit from the experimentation on animals but everyone else whose lives may depends on it are not! The argument is suffering which can pull the heart strings of just about everyone but the FACT still remains that Mother Nature will cause exponentially more suffering than all experiments throughout all of history and for the rest of time could ever do. The difference is of course one is the natural process and the other saves countless lives and human suffering. Once again they have put the suffering of lab rats(which most folks would exterminate if they were running through their house or restaurant) over the suffering and death of human beings. This IMO this is good intentions gone seriously out of control.

PETA and HSUS both employ and finacially support convicted animal rights terrorists who have not only terrorized scientists and labs(which save lives) but also post videos on how to make bombs and do the same. They also KILL animals too but it's justified when they do it, PLEASE!:colbert:

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i could not agree more, its amazing how extreme some people contradict themselves! Im not a fan for peta one bit, i dont hate anyone whose a part of peta but they are always contradicting themselves to much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

I have always found it very interesting that some folks say keeping captive animals or breeding them is cruel or exploitative and causes them to suffer. Granted some pet owners are ignorant to their animals needs, neglectful and purchase animals on a whim but most are animal lovers who treat pets better than they treat themselves.

Mother nature on the other hand is much crueler than any pet owner could ever be. In the wild 95% of most species will die and suffer horribly in the process due to dehydration, starvation, injury, disease, predators, etc...
Yes this part of the natural process but they suffer none the less.

In captivity those numbers are more than likely reversed. Animals are fed, cared for, given medical attention and even those with birth defects are given a chance to survive. Sadly the news or animal planet never runs a story of good pet owners or breeders, but only the most extreme shocking cases which gives the public a very negative, distorted and inaccurate view of actual pet ownership and breeding. I myself have spent many thousands of dollars on veterinary care but you won't see positive stories of pet owners or breeders on the news(or media) as it has no shock value which equals poor ratings. Yet how many shows do we see where species are falsely identified, misrepresented, facts completely incorrect or distorted to add to the shock value.

This is fuel for the animal rights extremists.

I once read a very accurate observation someone posted about the difference of animal rights advocates and animal rights extremists. I would say most folks here believe in the ethical and humane treatment of animals, as we are mostly animal lovers and do not like to see animals treated badly. Extremists take this much further and feel animal ownership is a form of slavery and support and even teach people how to make bombs to attack laboratories and scientists that use animals for research. They feel taking a human life or suffering is acceptable in order to save animals from from suffering. I am NOT saying all members of PETA or the HSUS support this behavior but those who are in charge and pull the strings fund and even employ folks who do. THIS IS A FACT. I have researched it and seen it with my own eyes. The even sadder part is all those animal lovers that fall into the first category send $ to these folks not knowing how extreme and distorted the view points the leaders of these organizations actually are. I compare this to religious people and religious extremists or fanatics such as Nazi's, KKK and Jihadists. One of the heads of PETA openly protests against the use of animals for medical research yet her life depends daily on medication that is derived from the exact same process she fights against. If this isn't self righteousness and hypocrisy I don't know what is. It is OK for her to benefit from the experimentation on animals but everyone else whose lives may depends on it are not! The argument is suffering which can pull the heart strings of just about everyone but the FACT still remains that Mother Nature will cause exponentially more suffering than all experiments throughout all of history and for the rest of time could ever do. The difference is of course one is the natural process and the other saves countless lives and human suffering. Once again they have put the suffering of lab rats(which most folks would exterminate if they were running through their house or restaurant) over the suffering and death of human beings. This IMO this is good intentions gone seriously out of control.

PETA and HSUS both employ and finacially support convicted animal rights terrorists who have not only terrorized scientists and labs(which save lives) but also post videos on how to make bombs and do the same. They also KILL animals too but it's justified when they do it, PLEASE!:colbert:

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I'm glad this was posted by a moderator, because one or two of the statements you made were in my initial post above, but I felt like I'd pounded my pulpit enough, so I left a few things unsaid. I've done a great deal of research myself. I didn't set out to take a stand against PETA or HSUS. I did the research initially because I have a passion for animals. I wanted to know what would be done with my donation if I decided to contribute to either of them. It probably comes as no surprise that I didn't make a contribution. During the course of that research, the connections to the Eugenics Movement (think concentration camps and ridiculous mustaches), the endless contradictions, rampant deception, and extremist tactics pushed me past the "I'm not giving them a cent" stage, right to the "I'm going to fight back" stage. I would encourage EVERYONE here, whether you agree or disagree with anything I've said, or anyone else... take a look at PETA's website. Read some of their articles, and see for yourself. The one thing I can say in their favor, they can convince you to speak out against their agenda FAR better than I can.

I have seemed to be taken completely out of context. I was assuming some of what I said was self understood from one animal lover to another! But aparently not so I want to clarify myself! This will not be a short post, want to make everything as clear as possible! Maybe after this, there will be some sort of understanding!

Disliking Breeders -

Please understand that I am against Domestic Animal Breeding! I didnt think I would have to be so specific with a group of animal lovers! So my feelings against breeders have no relation to Endangered Animals! I have all respect for those who try to keep animals alive!

Puppy Mills: Most of these mills are forcing animals to live in a very kennel with little to no human interaction, no toys, or comfort waiting to either be bred or sold! Some of these kennels dont get cleaned out like they should so the dogs are sleeping, eatting, standing in thier own feces for long periods of time! Some of the dogs are so over-bred that it has actually caused health problems within the puppies not to mention the mothers! Some of the monthers are actually killed if they are found they couldnt breed anymore! In my beliefs that is no way of life!

Backyard Horse Breeder: Most have done great at this but some are really terrible! They breed that one horse till she cant breed anymore, then kill her & use one of her daughters to breed just to sell to the highest bidder. Some are even sold at the first sign of eatting sweet feed, not completely weened off the mother. Some without any background checks to see if they can care for such a big animal, have the right shelter or enough land & they end up starving, losing hair, too weak to even stand! In my beliefs that is no way of life!

ASPCA has reported a huge rise of over population within domestic animals & most is due to inadequate irresponsible pet ownership. It's so much a problem they have made a show of animal hoarding. These people have so many but fail to realize the nature of these animals is to breed & end up over thier heads in animals. Not to mention the abused abandon & neglected ones!

Humane Society has found a rise in homeless domestic animals! They have had to revert to euthanizing those who which thier time is up on the adoption clock to make room for more homeless animals. Thank the heavens not all of them agree to this method & instead they ship the animal to another anti kill shelter to get another chance! My personal hope is all of them will do this!

So many homeless animals out there. We cant take care of the ones we have already, why would we want to breed for more with the cost of these poor animals health & lives? We are so overloaded with homeless animals, shelters that are here to help find it ok to kill off the ones that dont bring the money in to make space for ones that might?!?!?! How is that ok? When I see an animal walking the streets with their ribs showing & their fur all matted up I cant help but cry & beg my husband to let us bring him home, care for him & find him a good home & sometimes he agrees to do so! Luck has been on our side too because we have found many animals great homes & kept in touch with each of them!
So yes I do have a problem with Breeders when the benifit is for the love of money & not the love of animals! I even have a problem with some shelters that approve of euthanizing animals without reason except their time ran out!


Disliking Exploiting Animals -

This subject does purtain to all catagories of animals! But I have to add that since Animal Rights have came to focus & laws made to care for & protect animals, im no so much against them as I was.

Zoo's : Before the animal rights laws came in affect, alot of terrible things went down! Elephants worked to exaustion for finacial benifit of letting people get an elephant ride around the park! Baboons getting so stressed out in such a small cage the result to pulling out thier own fur! Tigers going into depression & starve themselves because thier cub was taken away & sold to the highest bidder! Animals trapped in the wild & sold to a zoo! Many more but too much to list! Im highly happy that things have gotten to where they are now compared to where they were before! I have seen some that even have an exibit for endangered species. Some animals they have & some just pictures of but share with you thier story & need to save them! Also learned that most zoo's use the most thier money made to better the lives of the animals they have! This I find extremely awesome, putting the animals first!

Circus's: Before the animal rights laws, there was some nasty stuff here too! Elephants were being pulled on by a long stick with a sharp hook at the end of it. Monkeys were a shock collar to get them to do what they were told to do. Lions were getting whipped with a whip to perform. Animals were being starved & wouldnt be fed till after they performed! Animals were being beaten if they didnt listen instead of rewarded when they did! Animals lived in cages & only allowed out to perform! Now, things are alot better but there are still HIDDEN CAMERA cases found & reported, so they arent perfect!

Exibits: I trully have to admit I havent been to many nor done much research on this subject. But the ones I have went to have been GREAT! SeaWorld has made a great place for animals & people together! You can learn so much about the animals & to watch them is just amazing. They look so happy! They seem be focused on teaching people of the animals & keeping the animals happy! They even have a rescue team that help those animals which have been wounded or sick & can be taken back into the wild! Reptile World was just as GREAT! They are pretty much the same just focused on reptiles! I even got to see some species that were near extinct & learn about many others that are extinct! The staff at both places seemed to be very educated & caring! Places like this where the animals are happy, people can learn, are just amazing to me!

Sancuary's: I am trully in love with these places! Each one I went to & learned about, they are awesome! I went to a wolf Sancuary & sadly cant remember the type of wolf but they were Endangered. They had great homes for them & even had a domestic dog as a saragent mother! They showed us a video of a "Release" & "Track" of 2 of thier grown wolves that were born within thier Sancuary! They are tagged to keep track of them & showed us how great they were doing! It is a experience that will bring tears to your eyes!

So yes I do have a problem with Exploiting Animals when the benifit is for the love of money & not the love of animals!


Free Roaming Animals:

Now I kinda hoped that this would have been self explanitory but aparently it wasnt so I must go into depth with this as well! I DO NOT want animals to just be waundering just anywhere, this would be insane! This is why we have animals hit by cars, poachers, animal attacks, so on & so forth! Again, my main subject is Domestic Animals! I do believe domestic animals should have some sort of freedom under the watchful eye of thier human parents!

Dogs: Some dogs are found by the ASPCA inside a kennel just big enough to turn around in, with reports by the owner that they only come out to go to the bathroom. Some are put in the kennel & left there, never allowed out to run or be free. Some are on a very short chain tied to a tree with no freedome to run or play. To me this is no life for a dog!

Cats: Some cats go through major torcher getting thier knuckles cut off & claws removed for the price to live inside a home! They also have to use the bathroom in a litter box that some people dont clean regularly! To me this is no life for a cat!

Birds: Some birds are put in a small cage just to be fed & water with no time out to fly around the house / room! To me this is no life for a bird!

Reptiles: Some reptiles are put in cage just to be seen, fed & watered without being taken out, loved on, played with. To me this is no life for a reptile!


PETA:

I will inform you that I am no longer a PETA member. I was reading thier page & got more details of them then I had! There is more about them that I disagree with then I agree with! I do amend them for thier fight but they dont seem to have the same dream & beliefs I have. When you talk about contradictions, they are surely one big ball, at least judging by what I have been reading by thier very own page! So I do want to thank you for driving me to do more research & stopping me from donating what little cash I have to people who believe in such killing of animals!


My Part:

I am a HUGE animal lover! I myself have many babies, some I rescued & found homes, some I rescued & kept, some people just beg me to take off thier hands. I mentioned this earlier but didnt go into detail! I have had many babies within my lifespan & forsee many more to cross my path in the future! I concider myself a gaurdian angel for animals, my purpose in life. How do I explain this.....

Tiger: Kids were throwing kittens off the high point of the bleachers at my school (this is back in 1999) & when they got caught, the kittens got rescued. The school said if the students didnt take them home they were going to be sent off. So I took one home! He has passed away.

Storm: Found him in the classifieds. An elderly lady found out her cat got pregnant when she aparently ran away. She couldnt take care of all the kittens & was giving them to a good home. I got one! He has passed away.

Prisea: Her mother had 2 puppies & the owner wasnt happy. We overheard him saying if they didnt find a home, they were going to find a bullet. We took both of them home. We gave one to a great home & kept Prisea.

Buster: His mother had 3 puppies & the owners daughter told us her dad was going to drop the puppies off in the woods to fend for themselves if she didnt find them a home. She passed the word good enough all of them were gone but one & we got him! We gave him to a great home nearby!

Bashy: His mother was too pregnant to travel & the owners were moving so they asked me to dogsit. She had 6 pups & I found all of them a great home except one which of course kept!

Thumper: An ex friend of mine had 5 kids & a job, had no time cleaning & caring for the rabbit & asked me to take her.

Tinkerbell: My cousin had 4 kids, a job, a husband, had no time for potty training & asked me to take her.

Junior: My husband found a homeless dog on his job one day & later found she had puppies. After overhearing someone talk about taking the pups & use them for dog fighting, my husband snatched up the puppies & the mama. We gave both the pups to a great home. The was stolen out of our yard.

Fluffy: A woman online on a local Yard Sale type site had two Ball Pythons, didnt have the sexed & next thing she knew she had babies. She was trying to find homes for all the baby BP's, so my husband chimmed in very quickly on it!


In Responce:

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

I have no problem with Peta humanely euthanizing an animal in order to end the suffering of a dying or incurable animal, but killing aggressive, elderly, hurt, and sick animals because no "good" homes exist for them is simply disgusting to me. If there are no "good" homes, take some of the money used to fund those ad campaigns, and use it to provide care for those animals that Peta has taken responsibility for. For now, Peta would rather spend those dollars putting naked supermodels on billboards.

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In this I completely agree & sadly alot of shelters follow that same path!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

For the record, Peta most definitely IS against the keeping of pets, and they're more than happy to say so on their website. They openly say that it would be in the best interest of the animals if "pet keeping" never existed, and that it's a "selfish desire to possess animals and receive love from them".

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In the same paragraph, further down, they say thier own contradiction! That if you are to have pets they wish for you to adopt & resue rather than buy from pet shops! But I have found alot of contradiction within PETA & for that they have lost a member!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

You say you're not against the keeping of pets, and then you go on to say that "...we wish in a perfect world all animals can be free & roam like all creatures, humans as well, but that is something that we know is fairly impossible & know might never happen."

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I do wish that all animals have the right to roam & be free but not in the way you might think! Im not talking about a bear walking down the street beside a moving vehical, a lion walking into walmart, LMAO I am talking about the way & methods people have thier animals contained! There is a better way than chained to a tree or locked in a kennel all day without privledge to get out & roam under the watchful eye of the human parents! And I believe that perfect world can happen!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

While I'm on the subject, I'm not a big fan of the term "pets". I prefer "companion animals,"

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I dont like using the world pets either but I was trying to use the words they used since I was talking about thier page. I dont call my babies pets! I havent yet been able to have kids so to me my animals are my babies!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

She'll never have to face a predator, go without food and fresh water, warmth, shelter, or protection, and she will have the absolute best medical care available. What do you think the chances are that she'd have those same certainties in the wild?

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LMAO, I'm sorry for laughing but if you knew me, you would see that that comment wasnt needed! You are talking to someone who cried at Bambi! Someone who cant watch any animal violence without getting physically sick. Someone who knows the animal kingdom but doesnt agree with animals killing animals. Someone who set LIVE rat traps just to set them free in a different location. Someone who cries at the sight of speeding car victims AKA roadk kill. Someone who tried to save a squirll after her cat turned predetor on it. I love all animals! I'm very pleased to learn my Fluffy doesnt like Live Food! She prefers frozen & that just makes me feel all good inside in so many ways! To watch her kill a live mouse might just be too much for me!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

For what it's worth, I applaud you for doing some research on caring for your new animal, and I hope you have a long and rewarding relationship with Fluffy.

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Thank You! I really do like this site, I dont like the way some people are toward others but thats how the world is aint it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

I'm glad this was posted by a moderator, because one or two of the statements you made were in my initial post above, but I felt like I'd pounded my pulpit enough, so I left a few things unsaid. I've done a great deal of research myself. I didn't set out to take a stand against PETA or HSUS. I did the research initially because I have a passion for animals. I wanted to know what would be done with my donation if I decided to contribute to either of them. It probably comes as no surprise that I didn't make a contribution. During the course of that research, the connections to the Eugenics Movement (think concentration camps and ridiculous mustaches), the endless contradictions, rampant deception, and extremist tactics pushed me past the "I'm not giving them a cent" stage, right to the "I'm going to fight back" stage. I would encourage EVERYONE here, whether you agree or disagree with anything I've said, or anyone else... take a look at PETA's website. Read some of their articles, and see for yourself. The one thing I can say in their favor, they can convince you to speak out against their agenda FAR better than I can.

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I have & like I said before I thank you for pushing me to do furture research on PETA! I had no clue half of what I read & even more half of what I dislike! I admit to be nieve & not have researched it fully but just brushed on the subject. But now I will locate another animal benefit that can do well with my donations! Thank You Again!

very true