My tank is driving me *expletive* crazy!

A few weeks ago I purchased my first bp. I was thrilled, she's beautiful, she eats like a champ, she's very docile, blah, blah, blah...

Unfortunately, I went with a glass tank for her housing. This was at the advice of the pet store folks, who I should not have listened to. BAD, BAD, me. I bought larger, thinking I would add foliage, etc. in the middle (in addition to her hides) so that she'd feel secure until she got bigger, and she seems to be doing just fine curled up in one end or the other.

But the temps! ARG! Her cool end is doing fine-ish (fluctuation of 3-5 degrees throughout the day) but I am having a ****ens of a time keeping my hot end where it needs to be. It is my own fault for buying a beautiful and seemingly non functional aquarium *smacks self on forehead*. Her aquarium is placed in the lowest possible traffic area of my home, and the part that has the least amount of temperature fluctuation.

I started with just a UTH alone, but it wasn't providing enough heat at all. While the probe I had on top of it was reading decently, it was only warm directly on top of the UTH (rather than warm end/cool end), and she seemed uninterested in spending any time in a hide positioned over the UTH. I moved her hot side hide from over the top of the UTH, to just being on the "hot side", except once I moved it the hide's temp went back down to an ambient 85ish (basically, UTH was only making itself warm).

Soooo, I got a heat lamp. Snakey girl loves the hot side now, and will actually split her time between warm and cool hides. Problem being, the heat lamp produces way too much heat, especially with the top covered with foil in my attempts to keep in humidity. I've been turning the thing on and off, on and off, throughout the day, but it's frustrating as hell. And the lamp creates too much heat with the foil on, period, but with just the UTH enough heat isn't generated on her warm side to keep the temps where she needs them.

I'm sorry, this is a dreadfully long post. I'm trying to include information that anyone might deem as useful to give advice. Basically I'm just wondering if I should get a second UTH and try that out (on the side, in addition to the bottom), or if a regulatory thermostat is the best idea here, or if I should just scrap the whole stupid setup and put her in a tub? I like the glass tank for aesthetic reasons, but the snake's health is way more important.

I'm sure I'm also asking a question that's been asked 100 times. I did see the lovely sticky on a glass tank setup, with foil, and light, and UTH. Unfortunately my similar setup is not yielding great results and I'm wracked with guilt about it...

I probably just need a herpstat, don't I? Leave it to me to pick the longest way to say something...

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Originally Posted by bushonk

I probably just need a herpstat, don't I? Leave it to me to pick the longest way to say something...

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Yes, a thermostat will do wonders for you. I highly recomend the Herpstat as well. I prefer the ND model. The only way I was able to keep my ambient temps where I wanted them was to heat the room (more like a big closet) with an oil filled heater. After I figured it all out, I was very happy that I didn't ditch my tanks for tubs.

If your room temps DON'T jump around much, then you can get by with just a rheostat (a light dimmer). Find the sweet spot on the dimmer switch and leave it. BUT that will ONLY work best in a room that has consistantly steady temps. Otherwise, you're dinking w/the dimmer as often as the off/on of the heat lamp.

Heat lamps, or CHEs WILL work, but they MUST be on thermostats to keep them from getting TOO hot. Your UTH should be on one too, just to be safe. So for that, yes, you'll need the herpstat with two separate controllers.

You might want to look into plastic tub housing. It is so much more stable for these snakes. A lot of folks don't like the look of it but there is one brand out there that for me anyways, has all the benefits of plastic with the clear view of glass. It's called Iris. It's not as easy to find as Sterlite or Rubbermaid but can usually be located at stores like Bed, Bath and Beyond, OfficeMax, Target, etc. You can often find a choice between a white lid or a clear one (I believe these are called their ClearView line). Just melt in some ventilation holes, put an under the tank heat source in place and you are good to go. With any tub you need to address the issue of the lid and any give it has that might allow your snake to escape. You can deal with that through the use of binder clips, C clamps, etc.

It might be well worth your time to use a tub for now and worry about fussing with that tank later on when your snake is bigger and already fully settled in.

For heating options check with Rich at www.reptilebasics.com He can set you up with something that will work with your housing choices. A great guy, knows his stuff, ships fast and backs everything he sells up with the best customer service out there.

I think what Jo said holds a lot of merit. Housing young ones in tubs seems to really allow them to thrive.
I remain unconvinced that a jerry rigged fish tank works for snakes unless you have really good luck; *cough cough Adraina and Butters cough cough*
If you talk to Rich, or go to his website, I would suggest you also look at his cages for when your snake is a little older and more secure. I have these http://www.reptilebasics.com/2x3-Cag...h-p-16286.html and I love them. They work really well and are made for snakes. They look great too!!! :gj:

imo keeping a glass tank is not that difficult even w/o a thermostat.i am in the basement and its very cool down here,around 70 at all times.i have a glass tank almost on the floor and have takin the temps outside the tank and it is 67 to 69.with a uth and a dimmer,an d a inferred light on a dimmer the hot stays from 90 to 93 and cool is 81.humidity always above 48%.to the original poster stick with it,tinker until you get it right and if you cant ill be more than happy to buy your stuff from you or you can take it back,buy a tub that is not very pleasing to the eye.

I remain unconvinced that a jerry rigged fish tank works for snakes unless you have really good luck; *cough cough Adraina and Butters cough cough*

oh my friggin god! jerry rigged? lol,my wittle feelings are hurtin.i'll admit the middle tank on my rack is a tad jimmied.the light from the tank below heats up the floor and ambiants in the middle tank.but hey,i didnt have to buy another uth and a dimmer!i still have one uth in the middle tank but it runs on the lowest setting and stays at 91 to 93.call it wat you will but i call it economical.

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Originally Posted by Butters420

I remain unconvinced that a jerry rigged fish tank works for snakes unless you have really good luck; *cough cough Adraina and Butters cough cough*

oh my friggin god! jerry rigged? lol,my wittle feelings are hurtin.i'll admit the middle tank on my rack is a tad jimmied.the light from the tank below heats up the floor and ambiants in the middle tank.but hey,i didnt have to buy another uth and a dimmer!i still have one uth in the middle tank but it runs on the lowest setting and stays at 91 to 93.call it wat you will but i call it economical.

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:rofl: You know I love you Butters :rofl:

LOL :8: Same here. :) And my tanks are not 'jerry rigged'!! :P

A tank can work, sometimes better than a tub, with just a little extra effort. Of course, I'll be the first to say that everyone's home and snake is different and sometimes a tank just doesn't cut it.

Get a good thermostat, make sure the tank is in a good location with all the 'proper' measures taken, and see if things improve. :) Hopefully they will.

:bow: You two are the Tank Queen and King and have earned the recognition!!! :bow:

yay! not very many do!

lol,adriana wheres my dinner?

Ummm Butters, ours is a Matriarchal society.... I think that Adriana is waiting for you to send the dinner :rofl::banana::rofl:

*GRIN* :8::rofl:

As far as a good position, I'll run this by y'all. I unfortunately do not live in an air conditioned apartment. As such, my apartment does fluctuate in temperature. I chose to place the tank in my bedroom, because that room fluctuates the least, and also receives minimal traffic (I'm in there to sleep). At no point during the day is the tank in direct sunlight. I figured this would probably be the best place to put her, hopefully I've got her in the right part of the house.

So, next question, what are the differences between herpstats? Right now I have two temp gauges in my tank, one that measures temperatures via a probe placed right outside of her hide on the warm end of the tank, and then a temp/hydrometer placed above the substrate on the cool end of the tank. I'm just wondering which herpstat I will need to control the temp outputs of the light and the UTH, which are what I'm generating heat with at the moment.

What are the differences between the Herpstat, the Herpstat ND, the Herpstat II, and the Herpstat pro? Which one do I need to control the two heat devices? As I said in the first post, her cool end temps seem to be okay. It's keeping the hot temp right at 92 that's the problem...

The ND stands for Night Drop; a feature you'd use for breeding. The II is to control 2 different heat sources and the Pro control 4 different heat sources. The pro also handles less wattage per device than the II.
I don't think a t'stat can control lights though... can they, oh Queen and King of the Tank World??

im pretty sure the zoomed thermostat can control a lamp as well.im positive it can control a ceramic heat emmiter so i dont see why not.but like i said i dont use thermostats.dont need one

Thermostats can control up to their listed wattage of ONE type of device. This means you can have, say, three UTHs plugged into it but NOT a UTH and a lamp. They use electricity differently, and besides it's best to control a lamp with a dimmer...something you should do with a UTH only if your room temps hardly fluctuate at all.

Getting a Herpstat, tho expensive, is the best route to take. They are highly reliable and can save you a lot of stress about temps. :) The regular Herpstat is all you really need for one tank.

As for the positioning of the tank, it sounds like you have it in just the right spot. Now I'll ask a few questions:
You say the probe is right outside the warm hide - is against the tank floor or resting on top of the substrate?
What type and how much substrate do you use? (sorry if this was said and I didn't see)
What type of UTH are you using? Some heat pads don't get hot enough for snakes even if plugged right into the wall. The guy that gave me my new normal female had her in a tank with a pad that only reached 85 no matter what.

With these answers, it should be easier to see what's going on with your tank. :)

With a Herpstat II the OP can control one UTH and one light ;)

here is a link to a cheaper thermostat.if you look closely on the box and in the description it clearly says for use of che's,uth's,inferred heat lamps and other reptile heating devices.the only thing it says not to use it on is Reptisun, Avian Sun or Power Sun UV becuz of the different voltage.

http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/En...I7czoxOiIwIjt9

Yes, those stats can control all those devices... but not all at once! Unless you want to tempt the fates, you should never plug two different things (i.e. a lamp and a UTH) into the same t-stat. At the least you'll have the heat pad not working properly and the lamp flickering, at worst you could blow a circuit.
Also, lamps work differently from heat tape or pads, so they should have their own controllers.

Just saying... :)

Also, if you can afford the better t-stat right off the bat, you should GET the better t-stat! Experience has taught me that one. :)

Features include a 6 foot remote sensor probe, a dual port plug receptacle to control multiple heating devices, and adhesive pads for mounting. Excellent for use with Zoo Med’s Ceramic Heat Emitter and the Repti Therm Under Tank Heater

am i just reading this wrong?

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Originally Posted by Argentra

Yes, those stats can control all those devices... but not all at once! Unless you want to tempt the fates, you should never plug two different things (i.e. a lamp and a UTH) into the same t-stat. At the least you'll have the heat pad not working properly and the lamp flickering, at worst you could blow a circuit.
Also, lamps work differently from heat tape or pads, so they should have their own controllers.

Just saying... :)

Also, if you can afford the better t-stat right off the bat, you should GET the better t-stat! Experience has taught me that one. :)

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Good to know. I do know also that running flex watt and an RHP through a Herpstat II didn't work well; it seemed like the two sources just didn't talk to each other well.... :oops:
I also agree with getting the best t'stat that you can afford :)

Make life easy for yourself, tubs work wonders. with a helix t stat.:8:

I have racks and reptile cages from RBI and they all work really well for me! :D
I also have Helix's and Herpstat's and they both work really well also!

Ah, substrate! Totally forgot to mention that one. I was attempting to describe everything, but apparently failed there. I'm using aspen, about an inch and a half in the bottom of the tank. My BP has showed zero interest in burrowing. I should also mention I've currently got two water dishes as well, in an attempt to try and keep up humidity since keeping foil over the top of the tank would probably cook my snake.

Hot side probe is resting on top of the substrate, not below it, right near where the snake spends most of her time. I had been measuring burried below the substrate directly touching the glass opposite the UTH, but the snake was uninterested in spending time on or near the UTH. When I addded the lamp, I wanted to make sure the substrate (and other materials) that touch my snake weren't getting too hot, which is why it is resting on top of the substrate right now. When I bury it the temps differ, and I don't want to burn snakey's belly!

As for the UTH brand, I'm using a ZooMed. People have said they get notoriously hot, but mine never gets above 97. Go figure.

As for more questions, it sounds as though everyone thinks I can't use a light in conjunction with a UTH with a single thermostat. So does this mean that I would either need to a) buy two thermostats, or b) get either a few more UTH's or just ditch the UTH entirely and go with a light?

So Butters, what part of the country are you in? Want my tank? A tub from Walmart is looking more and more apealing with each gray hair...

:D It can be frustrating... but I'll warn you that tubs can be almost as annoying to get started and stable.

A few pointers in response to what you've added:

Your substrate is a tad too thick. All you really need is just enough to cover the bottom. I use a layer of newsprint under the aspen as a cleaning ease and to keep the snake off the glass.

The probe SHOULD be under the substrate. The goal is to get the temps at the glass at the high end of "right" (i.e. around 93-94) and the temps on the substrate a few degrees cooler (90-91). That way, if the snake wants more warmth they can burrow down a bit without worry that they'll get burned and the temps are still in the good range if they just sit on top of the aspen.

ZooMed pads can and do reach up to 120 when just plugged into the wall. Tests have been done. :) How did you attach the pad to the tank?

The best way to heat any enclosure, be it tank tub or display, is from below with a UTH or heat tape or from above with a radient heat panel. Lights will only suck out the humidity and provide intense heat in one spot and very little everywhere else. Lizards need basking lamps and brighter day light, snakes really don't.

The foil will not cook your snake. :) It helps to keep the heat and humidity in the tank where it belongs instead of rising out. The only way it would be bad would be if the snake were right on it along with a lamp.

Let's see if we can help you get this tank to work. If not, or if you just get too frustrated with it, then head to WalMart for a nice latching tub and some mini bungee cords and we'll walk you through THAT set up process. :D

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Originally Posted by bushonk

Ah, substrate! Totally forgot to mention that one. I was attempting to describe everything, but apparently failed there. I'm using aspen, about an inch and a half in the bottom of the tank. My BP has showed zero interest in burrowing. I should also mention I've currently got two water dishes as well, in an attempt to try and keep up humidity since keeping foil over the top of the tank would probably cook my snake.

Hot side probe is resting on top of the substrate, not below it, right near where the snake spends most of her time. I had been measuring burried below the substrate directly touching the glass opposite the UTH, but the snake was uninterested in spending time on or near the UTH. When I addded the lamp, I wanted to make sure the substrate (and other materials) that touch my snake weren't getting too hot, which is why it is resting on top of the substrate right now. When I bury it the temps differ, and I don't want to burn snakey's belly!

As for the UTH brand, I'm using a ZooMed. People have said they get notoriously hot, but mine never gets above 97. Go figure.

As for more questions, it sounds as though everyone thinks I can't use a light in conjunction with a UTH with a single thermostat. So does this mean that I would either need to a) buy two thermostats, or b) get either a few more UTH's or just ditch the UTH entirely and go with a light?

So Butters, what part of the country are you in? Want my tank? A tub from Walmart is looking more and more apealing with each gray hair...

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lol,stlouis.and if you cant take it back where you got it from and are willing to sell it cheap i will buy it.

honestly i think a 10 dollar lamp dimmer would do the trick for you.there are also dome lamps that come with a dimmer on the cord.even when the light is dimmed 3/4 of its original brightness it still raises the ambiant temps a few degrees and cuts down alot of the humidity loss of 100% power.if all else fails wat size tank is it and where are you located?

i had same problem bought a helix and havent turned the lamp on since then. good luk

True for the lamp dimmer thing. Most of my lamps have built in dimmers and when I have them on for a boost to ambient temps they are usually at 1/2 power. Of course, I keep my lamps at least 8" above the top of the tank so they don't affect humidity too much.

St. Louis is quite a ways from the west coast Butters!

I'll thin out the substrate here in the next day or so. I was placing the probe on top of the substrate simply because it was reading so much cooler when placed below. I wanted to know how warm it's getting in the hottest part of the tank, because she seems uninterested in burrowing.

I know the ZooMed pads are capable of getting insanely warm, although mine might be defective? I had originally placed the probe directly on the pad, as is directed in several of the stickies. But after about 48 hours I decided it shouldn't be a primary heat source because it wasn't creating a warm end, just warm substrate (which the snake showed no interest in spending time on). Basically, UTH was reading about 97, substrate above UTH was reading about 92, and an inch or so up from the substrate (ambient air) was reading at cool end temps, about 83-86. And since she didn't seem to want to lie directly on top of the substrate over the UTH, she more or less didn't have a gradient, which was why I got the light. As soon as I got the light, suddenly the lil' gal was interested in being on the hot side too.

As far as attaching the pad to the tank, the directions on the packaging said to place it directly against the tank, either on the side or on the bottom (which is where it is stuck now).

By saying that the foil would cook her, I didn't mean via reflection. It's just that the foil holds in so much heat. It doesn't hold in enough that I can use just the UTH (otherwise I'd be set), but with the light it was holding in way too much, thus the comment about cooking the snake with foil.

See the problem? With just a UTH, not enough heat generated for a gradient, with a UTH and a light, too much heat generated to create a gradient... I'm just trying to find the happy medium :(

Hmm... you might have a defective UTH. Is it reaching 97 on the bottom of the enclosure or on the pad itself? If on the pad, plugged right into the wall, then it may be a 'cooler' pad.

However, the temps you quoted are actually just right: "UTH was reading about 97, substrate above UTH was reading about 92, and an inch or so up from the substrate (ambient air) was reading at cool end temps, about 83-86"
What are your cool side temps on the substrate? Those numbers are what the temps should be for the warm side...

Interesting...

The pad itself is reaching 97, although I'm wondering if it's my own fault for it. I built a stand for my tank that leaves the bottom completely open, thus the UTH isn't wedged between anything and the tank. Cool end temps on the substrate read between 82-86 degrees depending on the temperature of my house.

I wanted to get the herpstat, but since my budget has now exceded being a budget and ended up more like a spending spree, the husband has put his foot down. Until now he's be letting me try and fail, since snakey is my baby. But we discussed it and he's getting me a Ranco, because he can get it through his work and wire it himself.

While I realize people here LURV the herpstat, do y'all think the Ranco will do alright? The nice thing about having the husband wire the Ranco is that it'll be done this afternoon and I don't need to wait to have it shipped. He says he can get it down to a 2 degree spread in either direction, and far be it for me to tell an engineer "no."

In the humidity department, I've found that keeping a damp towel over half of the screen cage top raises humidity in the tank quite nicely and doesn't seem to affect my cage temps more than a degree or two, so at least I've made some progress in that department...

Ranco's are fine. I have one and it works just great. :)

The open stand explains it. I suggest putting a piece of plywood or particleboard on the stand under the tank to 'lock in' heat. I think you'll find your temps will rise after that. :)
Also, I meant to ask you if you are depending on that one UTH to heat the whole tank? Just a thought that crossed my mind...

As for humidity, see if you can't foil treat the screen instead. Towels hold bacteria and need to be bleached every few days. :)

Oooh thanks. Good to know on the towel front. I'm relying on a UTH and a lamp, as the UTH wasn't generating much heat.

Final report, got the Ranco installed this afternoon, and boy is that a load off my mind! I can cover the top with foil (which should keep in the humidity nicely now), and even though the Ranco is turning the lamp on/off every 10 minutes or so, the temps seem to be holding right between 91 and 95 on the hot end. While it would have been nice to have the herpstat, there's no way it would have been here by the weekend. This weekend it's supposed to be up around 100 degrees here, and so I would have been in and out of the bedroom all day sprouting gray hairs and not sleeping.

And don't worry, it's a heat only lamp. So it's not bright light/no light-ing her. I'd hate to screw with her day/night cycles.

Anyhow, thanks so much to everyone for all your helpful suggestions. You've helped me get my tank stable, and it is most appreciated!

If you only need to bump your humidity a bit you can try two water dishes. Put a regular one over on the cool side, place another one on the warm side right over the heated area. Make sure that one is very flat so it has a large surface area. You'll get more evaporation from that one and it should be able to help bump up your ambient humidity somewhat. Something like the overflow pan from under a plastic or terracotta planter should work well for that application. You can find those almost anywhere for a couple of dollars.