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How can you tell your BP likes you?
So how can you tell your bp likes you? I think mine likes me cause she usually likes to cuddle next to me and sleep, doesn't mind me touching her head all that much, and seems to feel comfortable sleeping with her head on my hand,and seems generally at ease around me.
I'm asking cause i'm handling her right now and she seems a little more apprehensive then usual, so maybe she doesn't like me as much as i thought. She is alot more jumpy around me tonight. How do you know YOUR snake likes you? Anyone have expierence with a snake not liking them?
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Re: How can you tall your BP likes you?
snakes don't like people, they just tolerate us.
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Re: How can you tall your BP likes you?
Snakes don't have an emotion center in their brain; they are all instinct.
That said, your snake will sense things from you. Maybe you are not as calm tonight or are apprehensive about something and the snake is picking up on that. :)
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Re: How can you tall your BP likes you?
Don't take it personally, it may not have anything to do with you, she may be going into shed or something else may be up.
I don't know what they feel, or don't feel, they live in their own reality. But I do hope with enough careful handling my BP will learn to be relaxed while being held and hanging out as he gets older. He may not get ecstatic over it but I hope he will be truly okay with it and not just barely tolerating it.
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Re: How can you tall your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by starmom
Snakes don't have an emotion center in their brain; they are all instinct.
I understand where you are coming from, and it does seem very likely that our snake companions view their world, and experience interacting with others very differently than we do.
However I don’t buy into scientific theories about how animals perceive their reality based on their brain structure. Scientists know very very little about how brains work.
Keep in mind a few decades ago it was “scientific fact” that human infants could not feel pain; surgeons would perform major surgeries without anesthetic because they knew that the screaming and thrashing were just random, meaningless, involuntary reactions caused by infants nervous system, and not signs of agony.
Similarly because avian brains are constructed differently, the scientists knew that meant birds, including parrots, had very very low iq’s and virtually no capacity to feel emotion. Now they say while the brain structure appears primitive, apparently birds use it differently and some have the i.q.’s of 5 year old children.
As far as I am concerned, when it comes to brain structure, scientists make things up as they go along. They have no clue. Oh…and did you know up until a few decades ago many doctors knew that menstruation cramps were purely psychosomatic? Yup, they knew it had to be in the “woman’s head” because it was a proven fact that no male doctor had ever experienced that phenomena.
Maybe you can see my point. : )
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Re: How can you tall your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonya610
As far as I am concerned, ... They have no clue.
Wow, just a few short decades ago?! :O:O:O:O:O
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
When he keeps striking and biting me repeatedly! :8:
At least I know he likes how I taste! :rofl:
Honestly, I have to go with the instinct thing here. They tolerate us and they can even learn that you handling them does not pose any threat to them. In the end though they would much rather be in a nice comfy hide waiting for their next meal!
Does anyone think the male and female ball pythons have to like each other before doing the dirty deed, or is it just natures call?
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gloryhound
Does anyone think the male and female ball pythons have to like each other before doing the dirty deed, or is it just natures call?
I would bet some breeders here have stories about BP's that for some odd reason refused one partner but accepted another (was it like/dislike?).
And along those lines, do people have to "like" eachother, and if so how does one define like? It seems often it can be defined as "it seemed like a good idea at the time". : )
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonya610
I would bet some breeders here have stories about BP's that for some odd reason refused one partner but accepted another (was it like/dislike?).
And along those lines, do people have to "like" eachother, and if so how does one define like? It seems often it can be defined as "it seemed like a good idea at the time". : )
You're comparing ball python breeding to one night stands?
FYI- humans get pleasure out of sex. Ball pythons don't. Can't really compare the two.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonya610
I would bet some breeders here have stories about BP's that for some odd reason refused one partner but accepted another (was it like/dislike?).
And along those lines, do people have to "like" eachother, and if so how does one define like? It seems often it can be defined as "it seemed like a good idea at the time". : )
Or, in simple terms, the BP didn't find the other animal as a good mate. Maybe weak genes, maybe some other sign we don't understand or can identify. But that this animal isn't a strong and good mate to copulate with and produce offspring. :gj:
It's about survival, not fun.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleindiangirl
Or, in simple terms, the BP didn't find the other animal as a good mate. Maybe weak genes, maybe some other sign we don't understand or can identify. But that this animal isn't a strong and good mate to copulate with and produce offspring. :gj:
It's about survival, not fun.
Maybe his pheromones didn't have enough funk?:rolleyes:
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Re: How can you tall your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleindiangirl
Wow, just a few short decades ago?! :O:O:O:O:O
Yes, a few decades ago. But realize that was the mindset of the "modern scientists" at that time; opinions (or scientific "facts" on such matters) change. I would bet the ancient Greeks realized that infants could feel pain.
Likewise many many ancient cultures revered snakes as dieties or mediums to the spiritual realms. Not just primative cultures either. Now days many "modern people" see snakes as primative reptiles with very very limited limited capacity to think or experience anything.
Okay I am rambling here but this type of topic inspires me. I do not know what goes on in my BP's mind on a daily basis, for all I know he could sit around meditating all day, perhaps being at a comfy 92 degrees is a form of bliss we cannot even concieve of.
I just know I will not assume the "modern scientists" have more insight into the matter.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaniard
Maybe his pheromones didn't have enough funk?:rolleyes:
brown chicken brown cow! :P
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Along the lines of the whole, we dont know if reptiles can really "think" and parrots having the minds of 5 year olds, and scientists making things up as they go because they just DONT know how the brain really works...
People should look up Synesthesia. There was an episode on the science channel that was pretty dang interesting!
I didnt think it was real, UNTIL i really listened to what people were saying about it in the show. I figured, how the heck is that possible.... theres no way... But its real, and these people arent making it up, One man even came up with a test to show that it is real! Interesting stuff, and just more reasons to prove that noone knows how the brain truly works :)
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
mooingtricycle give us a synopsis. What was it about?
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
I don't think my snakes like me at all. I think certain snakes just don't feel as stressed out about you as others. I have some snakes (mainly my boa) that will be stressed for a moment and then calm down while you handle. Others just do not like handling at all. They stress a lot over it so I leave them alone.
So I don't think it has anything to do with like or dislike, just their stress levels.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Intelligence is still different from emotion. My snakes don't seem to exhibit much of either.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkangel
Intelligence is still different from emotion. My snakes don't seem to exhibit much of either.
Very true, there are many brilliant sociopaths that feel very little emotion. On the otherhand I do believe many/most emotions are a product of hormones (in all species). To see female BP's protecting their eggs, they feel anxiety over a threat and that is as much emotion as anything.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonya610
Very true, there are many brilliant sociopaths that feel very little emotion. On the otherhand I do believe many/most emotions are a product of hormones (in all species). To see female BP's protecting their eggs, they feel anxiety over a threat and that is as much emotion as anything.
Do they actually feel anxiety? Or do they know what danger is? Is it instinct to wrap the eggs, or is it motivation for fear over the loss of eggs to protect? Or are the doing what the hormones in their bodies tell them to do, drive them to do, make them do without a passing thought as to why they are doing it?
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
littleindiangirl I doubt if they overanalyze it. They feel a strong need to protect, and they do. I think humans are very much the same way, but we like to think we aren't. Hormones are very powerful, humans often use their brains to "justify" their hormone induced feelings.
A couple of years ago I got the chance to watch canadian geese raise their families, they are the most monogamous devoted creatures, such incredibly protective parents. If humans displayed those traits they would be considered morally sound, loving, wonderful and devoted people and all that, but when animals display the same traits it is often just called "instinct." I tend to think hormones have a lot to do with it in either case. : )
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonya610
mooingtricycle give us a synopsis. What was it about?
Its far easier to look it up than have me explain it. Its extremely complicated, and if i tried explaining it, i would for sure mix things up. Wikipedia has a fairly detailed explanation of it though, if anyone is willing to read through it.
Basically, People see colored words/letters ( whole and individually) when they either hear the words spoken, or read them.
Some people Taste things when certain words are spoken, or read.
Its quite interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synesthesia
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonya610
littleindiangirl I doubt if they overanalyze it. They feel a strong need to protect, and they do. I think humans are very much the same way, but we like to think we aren't. Hormones are very powerful, humans often use their brains to "justify" their hormone induced feelings.
A couple of years ago I got the chance to watch canadian geese raise their families, they are the most monogamous devoted creatures, such incredibly protective parents. If humans displayed those traits they would be considered morally sound, loving, wonderful and devoted people and all that, but when animals display the same traits it is often just called "instinct." I tend to think hormones have a lot to do with it in either case. : )
Yeah but don't you see the difference here?? We have the capacity to "overanalyze". A snake does what its genes tell him, and is never educated by anything but what its instincts govern. We're having a discussion about an abstract concept right now. My snake is probably lounging in his own poo with tumbleweeds sailing thru his little brain.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkangel
My snake is probably lounging in his own poo with tumbleweeds sailing thru his little brain.
LOL might want to go check that then!:cool::D
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonya610
littleindiangirl I doubt if they overanalyze it. They feel a strong need to protect, and they do. I think humans are very much the same way, but we like to think we aren't. Hormones are very powerful, humans often use their brains to "justify" their hormone induced feelings.
A couple of years ago I got the chance to watch canadian geese raise their families, they are the most monogamous devoted creatures, such incredibly protective parents. If humans displayed those traits they would be considered morally sound, loving, wonderful and devoted people and all that, but when animals display the same traits it is often just called "instinct." I tend to think hormones have a lot to do with it in either case. : )
Do humans have the instinct to take care of their young, or is it a drive? Do we have free will or not?
Do mother geese have a choice whether or not they feel like raising some young? Or are their brains and bodies telling them to take defend the small things following them everywhere?
Many times animals get confused as to what they are supposed to be taking care of, this may be a prime example that they don't know what their offspring actually is.
The best example I can think of it the lone lioness that "adopts" baby antelopes. The lioness is confused. She wants to eat the animal, sometimes she toys with it, but her motherly instinct wins and she follows and protects the young calf to death. They literally starve during this time. Eventually either the calves get away from the lioness, are preyed on by other animals, or die from starvation.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkangel
Yeah but don't you see the difference here?? We have the capacity to "overanalyze". A snake does what its genes tell him, and is never educated by anything but what its instincts govern. We're having a discussion about an abstract concept right now. My snake is probably lounging in his own poo with tumbleweeds sailing thru his little brain.
Yes, I see the difference. Though I am not sure in the big scheme of things it really does make a difference, we do the same things animals do we just have wordier justifications for those things.
I guess I just get a bit sensitive when people start saying "intellect" is what matters, or diminishing the unknown experiences of other beings. I am not saying you are diminishing anything, it is not directed at you, but when one can intellectualize that the "other" has no feelings or higher thought it can justify lots of bad things. For me it is not about how snakes perceive things, but about how people do; I don't stress over what snakes might do. : )
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleindiangirl
Do humans have the instinct to take care of their young, or is it a drive? Do we have free will or not?
Not all humans take care of their young either. Is it because they lack intellect? Or instinct? I am stepping out of this debate as of now, the free will comment is something that I don't want to go into.
Thanks for the interesting discussion. : )
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
i wonder, has anyone measured the brainwave patterns of snakes before, under different circumstances? Feeding time, breeding, egg laying, with others, alone, soaking, basking? Maybe it can enlighten, or confirm for just about anyone whos interested in this discussion.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonya610
Yes, I see the difference. Though I am not sure in the big scheme of things it really does make a difference, we do the same things animals do we just have wordier justifications for those things.
I guess I just get a bit sensitive when people start saying "intellect" is what matters, or diminishing the unknown experiences of other beings. I am not saying you are diminishing anything, it is not directed at you, but when one can intellectualize that the "other" has no feelings or higher thought it can justify lots of bad things. For me it is not about how snakes perceive things, but about how people do; I don't stress over what snakes might do. : )
It does make a difference. We have the mental capacity to make decisions, debate, decide what we do with our lives, fall in love, we can think through the consequences of what we do. We're not guided through our lives purely by impulse. We have "wordier justifications," as you put it, because we have the capacity for spoken communication and we have science.
I'm not saying this makes us any better than reptiles, period. They were here before us and will likely outlive us. But the comparisons you're making just seem completely out of proportion. Compare us with primates, not reptiles. They are snakes and we are humans and the differences are too vast to make a neurological comparison.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooingtricycle
i wonder, has anyone measured the brainwave patterns of snakes before, under different circumstances? Feeding time, breeding, egg laying, with others, alone, soaking, basking? Maybe it can enlighten, or confirm for just about anyone whos interested in this discussion.
Oooo, pull a House and hijack an MRI machine? I'm liking it!! :D
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleindiangirl
Oooo, pull a House and hijack an MRI machine? I'm liking it!! :D
:rofl::gj:
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleindiangirl
Oooo, pull a House and hijack an MRI machine? I'm liking it!! :D
LOL and get arrested! woo! sounds like fun! :gj:
In all seriousness, i do wonder if these sorts of experiments have already been done.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooingtricycle
i wonder, has anyone measured the brainwave patterns of snakes before, under different circumstances? Feeding time, breeding, egg laying, with others, alone, soaking, basking? Maybe it can enlighten, or confirm for just about anyone whos interested in this discussion.
Okay I said i was stopping, and I really really am after this post. But when it comes to brain waves, that implies a belief that brain waves, or the machines that interpet them, mean anything.
Hey I am not saying that I think reptiles experience the world as we do, I am just saying I do not know HOW they experience their world, and I do not believe that modern science knows either. I think any observer would agree that they do NOT think like we do. I am simply saying that I will not buy into what modern science says because science with regard to the essence of true consciousness is not in a position to judge. Scientists change their opinions on the mechanics of intellect and experience often. In my mind it gets into some very iffy, almost theological issues.
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Re: How can you tall your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by boafa
snakes don't like people, they just tolerate us.
I agree ;)
BTW your avatar tripped me out - thought there was a bug on my screen :rofl:
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonya610
Okay I said i was stopping, and I really really am after this post. But when it comes to brain waves, that implies a belief that brain waves, or the machines that interpet them, mean anything.
Hey I am not saying that I think reptiles experience the world as we do, I am just saying I do not know HOW they experience their world, and I do not believe that modern science knows either. I think any observer would agree that they do NOT think like we do. I am simply saying that I will not buy into what modern science says because science with regard to the essence of true consciousness is not in a position to judge. Scientists change their opinions on the mechanics of intellect and experience often. In my mind it gets into some very iffy, almost theological issues.
It sounds like you don't "buy into science" period. Brain waves mean nothing now? MRIs mean nothing? Without some scientific knowledge, what are you left with, besides blind faith in theology and distrust of everything you're told? It seems to me like you opened this can of worms and now are trying to gracefully waltz back out with a cop out that "scientists change their opinions often." Of course they do. That's why I love science - it's not so adamant in its theories to become like a religion. When something is proven otherwise, the rules can always change. How can you participate in a discussion like this if you're so distrusting of science?
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonya610
Okay I said i was stopping, and I really really am after this post. But when it comes to brain waves, that implies a belief that brain waves, or the machines that interpet them, mean anything.
Hey I am not saying that I think reptiles experience the world as we do, I am just saying I do not know HOW they experience their world, and I do not believe that modern science knows either. I think any observer would agree that they do NOT think like we do. I am simply saying that I will not buy into what modern science says because science with regard to the essence of true consciousness is not in a position to judge. Scientists change their opinions on the mechanics of intellect and experience often. In my mind it gets into some very iffy, almost theological issues.
Im not disagreeing, nor agreeing per se. I have a mixed opinion on the subject, and wish to know more.
I think maybe they might be able to think, but i do NOT think it is on the same level as humans and other higher mammals. I could very well be wrong, and that is fine. But, anything to measure brainwaves may help us understand what is going on inside these animals heads.
Its the activity im interested in. How much brain activity is going on, if theres alot, what does that mean? and hopefully that could shed further light on this topic. This stuff is interesting, and fun. :)
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonya610
Okay I said i was stopping, and I really really am after this post. But when it comes to brain waves, that implies a belief that brain waves, or the machines that interpet them, mean anything.
What do you mean by this? That they mean anything? I must be missing your point. What don't they mean?
MRI machines and Cat scans and other machines are the primary tools we use to learn about our brains and how they function. Where the memory functions are, where our motor skills, eye sight or hearing are all governed, where our brains deal with pain or joy.... What do you mean they dont mean anything? :confused:
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooingtricycle
Im not disagreeing, nor agreeing per se. I have a mixed opinion on the subject, and wish to know more.
I think maybe they might be able to think, but i do NOT think it is on the same level as humans and other higher mammals. I could very well be wrong, and that is fine. But, anything to measure brainwaves may help us understand what is going on inside these animals heads.
Its the activity im interested in. How much brain activity is going on, if theres alot, what does that mean? and hopefully that could shed further light on this topic. This stuff is interesting, and fun. :)
Okay since this is not getting weirdly religions, I won't stop posting. I realize measuring brain waves in humans can show if there is electrical (?) brain activity, and what parts of the brain are affected, and they can compare that to how or whether the human individual is functioning or not. They have also been able to map parts of the human brain because they can talk to the person and figure out in some cases what parts of the brain effect different areas of thought.
But when measuring the activity in the healthy brains of other species it is a bit different because they do not know for sure how their brains work. The scans may show normal activity, but science is not in any position to say what that normal activity means with regard what the animal experiences.
Scientists recently changed their views on the capabilities of the avian brain, based on studies of behavior and their ability to learn, the brain scans didn't change. The fact is we don't know, we can only guess based on what we observe, but even observing is not all that accurate because it often comes down to the ability to communicate with the other.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Right, we never know anything for sure, so why even make educated guesses?! Waste of time!
:rolleyes::P
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
I'm always surprised at these threads that no one wants to talk about the fact that WE came slithering out of the sea one day and evolved into being able to seperate ourselves from all other animals. We evolved from a lower life form and all animals have the capacity to evolve as well.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
I'm always surprised that these threads get hi-jacked to the point of bringing up evolution. Totally irrelevant........ya know why no one wants to talk about it, it's nonsense.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
before everyone in this thread wants to keep on judging, i have a story, so please read it w/ compassion and an open mind.
I have a snake that i am very close to. I enjoy her company, and i know that she enjoys mine as well...you may be wondering how i know this, so keep on reading... One day, i was fondling her, i could just feel something. there was a strange aura in the air.
Something was up, so i decided we should have a heart to heart, i sat her down on the couch, oh how does she love to cuddle on the couch, and just told her how i felt about her. i know she was listening by the number of tounge flicks she gave. 1 tounge flick means yes, 2 tounge flicks mean no, and 3 tounge flicks means maybe. You may say this is crazy, but i know this snake and this is how she communicates. I can't speak for anyone else's snake, but i can for mine.
anyways, w/o going into too much detail about what was said, cause it's private and personal you know, i put her back in her cage. I could tell something was up as i began to walk away, i felt a vibe, as if she missed me or something.
I reassured her that i would always be there to "listen" to her tounge flickers.
But i noticed something and this is for everyone one of you that say snakes do not show emotion, by golly she was shedding, not her skin, but tears!
http://redpython.net/images/crying.jpg
by the way, i hope no one in their right mind takes this post serious.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpython
before everyone in this thread wants to keep on judging, i have a story, so please read it w/ compassion and an open mind.
I have a snake that i am very close to. I enjoy her company, and i know that she enjoys mine as well...you may be wondering how i know this, so keep on reading... One day, i was fondling her, i could just feel something. there was a strange aura in the air.
Something was up, so i decided we should have a heart to heart, i sat her down on the couch, oh how does she love to cuddle on the couch, and just told her how i felt about her. i know she was listening by the number of tounge flicks she gave. 1 tounge flick means yes, 2 tounge flicks mean no, and 3 tounge flicks means maybe. You may say this is crazy, but i know this snake and this is how she communicates. I can't speak for anyone else's snake, but i can for mine.
anyways, w/o going into too much detail about what was said, cause it's private and personal you know, i put her back in her cage. I could tell something was up as i began to walk away, i felt a vibe, as if she missed me or something.
I reassured her that i would always be there to "listen" to her tounge flickers.
But i noticed something and this is for everyone one of you that say snakes do not show emotion, by golly she was shedding, not her skin, but tears!
http://redpython.net/images/crying.jpg
by the way, i hope no one in their right mind takes this post serious.
ROFL
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
At the risk of committing a fair amount of anthropomorphism, I'm gonna add a couple cents worth here...
I'm not gonna say a decade ago, or 2 or 3, but I DO remember learning in school that humans are the only animals capable of emotions, or knowledge of right and wrong, etc.
That being said, I have a dog that I have had for about 10 years. She's a good dog. But she sometimes gets in trouble. She's always happy to see me. (just threw that in there). But... If, while I was away at work, she has gotten into a trash can and eaten all the kleenex that she found in it, she is VISIBLY apprehensive when I walk in the door. I know immediately that she is going to be in trouble. Is it remorse, fear of the punishment she knows is coming? I don't know. It LOOKS like remorse. When my son comes to visit, she gets incredibly excited, more excited than when most anyone else comes in, including people that she knows well. I can say without a doubt, that she is HAPPY to see him! My dog definitely shows emotion, and knowledge that she has done something wrong when that happens. I can also see the emotions in her facial expressions. Its difficult to identify exactly what I'm seeing, but I can tell.
Now snakes. Even more difficult to identify it, but it seems that I can tell if one of my snakes that assumes the strike position is actually going to strike. I can't tell you why, but it seems that I can tell if a look is curiosity, or "Don't mess with me!" Sometimes a dog that is wagging its tail may be about to rip your arm off. But if you're observant, you should be able to tell. Kinda the same thing with the snakes.
Next... a couple of months ago, I was bitten by one of my snakes that had never shown any aggression towards me before. She just whipped around and nailed me on the hand. But it wasn't unexpected. In fact I was wearing gloves at the time, because I did expect it. She was not about to let me have those eggs! Was it pure instinct, motherly instinct, love, knowledge and reason? I don't know. But like Sonya16 said, I'm not ready to conclude that "lower life forms" are completely incapable of possessing any of the qualities that we have so dearly held onto for ourselves. I won't go to the extreme of saying that my snakes love me, but I will go so far as to say my dog does.
Steve
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Hoo-t I think anyone that has spent a lot of time around dogs, particularly groups of dogs, would say they obviously do experience emotion. I do not know if they experience the array of emotions in the same way we do, but on the other hand not all people experience emotion in the same way either.
But like people dogs are pack animals, they live and hunt in groups and their ability to communicate with each other is important to the group harmony and survival They have complex forms of body language, and people can learn to read a lot of that body language over time. Domestic cats maybe solitary animals in nature, but because cats put a lot of energy into raising their kittens those traits are transferable to humans (they can bond and see us as playmates, food providers, nurturers, etc…).
Snakes on the other hand do not raise their young (beyond guarding the eggs in some cases). They are designed to survive autonomously, and they do not need to cooperate with other members of their species outside of mating or relay a variety of different expressions via body language for the purpose of communicating. They are just very different.
A hundred years ago virtually no one would believe it if you told them gorillas could learn to communicate through sign language. It would be a crazy and laughable idea as anyone could “obviously see” they were stupid, primitive animals that just ran on pure instinct and were incapable of higher thought.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
This has been a really interesting thread. I think as keepers of unconventional animals, it's really important for us to keep open minds - after all, that's what we ask others to do when we tell them about our hobby!
I think we just don't know what snakes think/feel/experience, but it would be human arrogance to assume they don't feel anything. Without getting into esoteric definitions - this is just my humble opinion - I believe that every living creature has an experience of love in some form or another.
As humans, the closest we'll get to a snake 'loving' or even 'liking' us is for them to trust us. To associate us with security, warmth, care, and consideration.
Now - you might all laugh and think I'm crazy - but I do believe snakes have ways of communicating to us, and even bonding.
This is the tale of a new ball python and her first shed:
I was totally worried because I live in Arizona and she was going into her first shed cycle. No matter what I did, I couldn't keep the humidity up beyond 60%. Misting, water... the air sucks moisture right out in this climate. I was very tense that she would have a bad, rough shed.
One night, I had a vivid dream in which my little baby python told me (out loud) that she was going to have a perfect shed and I should stop worrying.
The next evening, she did. Picture-perfect.
Bonding? Me wish-fulfilling in a dream? Who knows. But it felt like a real connection.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophiax
As humans, the closest we'll get to a snake 'loving' or even 'liking' us is for them to trust us. To associate us with security, warmth, care, and consideration.
Yeah I agree with that. I get upset by the notion that "animals don't have feelings" because that is always the excuse used by those that abuse them. I am not saying the people who believe that are abusers, but the abusers choose to believe that so they can justify whatever they feel like doing.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
well I consider all my reptiles and bird to be wild though they are captive breed because they jus will never be like my dog or cat and be predictabe they are much more there own persons ( animals) I think that is why I like hem so much I know my bird loves me or tolerates me cause I am the only one he does not bite bu as for my reptiles I think hey like to be well cared for and enjoy careful handeling and I think they too can like a person over another
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
"ITs ok to eat fish
cause they haven't any feelings...
something in the way..."
-Kurt Cobain
It's egomaniacal to think that animals do not have a spiritual center, which is where emotions are created from. Native Americans and other primitive tribes around the world revere the natural world and it's relation to emotion. Our intellects may outgrow us and leave our troubled puddle like bodies useless and listless.
IQ shmy-cue. Ever seen a dolphin create toxic emissions or suck the last drop of fossil fuel out of the ground. Instinct and emotion are inexorably linked and we can't condescend the creatures on this planet who haven't evolved. Maybe we evolved out of our own self-destructive convenience.
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Re: How can you tell your BP likes you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanarybird
It's egomaniacal to think that animals do not have a spiritual center, which is where emotions are created from. Native Americans and other primitive tribes around the world revere the natural world and it's relation to emotion. Our intellects may outgrow us and leave our troubled puddle like bodies useless and listless.
So is your theory based on theology?
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