Genetic Defects

Hello,

Been doing some research on here the past few weeks and looking to rekindle a childhood hobby of mine.

My question relates to Ball Python Morphs and side effects associated with these morphs. I don't want to start a debate as most people are smart enough to draw their own conclusions from these issues. I'm simply looking for the facts.

What are some genetic disorders associated with the respective morph? I've read about some head wobble, kinks, etc... Any one else notice idiosyncrasies that seem linked to specific morphs? size, feeding, reproduction, digestive, demeanor, immune, etc......

I know of... the Spider wobble, the Caramel Kinks, the homozygous form of the Woma is lethal.... The cinnamon duck beak... That's all I know off the top of my head.

Connie, what can you tell me about the spider wobble?

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

I know of... the Spider wobble, the Caramel Kinks, the homozygous form of the Woma is lethal.... The cinnamon duck beak... That's all I know off the top of my head.

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Anyone want to explain further. I can't picture a duck beak on a snake. What happens to the homozygous Woma? They die young or something?

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

, the homozygous form of the Woma is lethal.

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interesting :confused: could you explain more about how this form of woma is lethal?

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Originally Posted by DLawIII

Anyone want to explain further. I can't picture a duck beak on a snake. What happens to the homozygous Woma? They die young or something?

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The Pearl. It is a grey purple snake that just doesn't survive past the first few months of life...

Have all the pearls died early? I always thought it was a myth. (I am not saying anyone is wrong, just wondering)

I listened to Greg Graziani talk last year at the central florida herp society and he said that the blue eyed leusistic (sp) balls have an abnormal number of scales on the top of their heads between their eyes.

here you go

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/ball_pearl.html

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Originally Posted by Jenn

Connie, what can you tell me about the spider wobble?

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Well... they wobble their heads lol. Some more than others. Sometimes they corkscrew its so bad. My girl really doesn't have much of a wobble. Mostly when she's really excited, like when feeding her head bobs up and down as she gets ready to strike.

Some people call it a morph but IMO the Derma ball is a genetic defect also.

That's true, but it isn't linked to any one color or pattern gene.

I know but since we're on the genetic defects topic, I just wanted to through it out there. C'mon Connie its a slow day at work, cut me some slack! ;)

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Originally Posted by kellysballs

Have all the pearls died early? I always thought it was a myth. (I am not saying anyone is wrong, just wondering)

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All pure Pearls have died..

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Well... they wobble their heads lol. Some more than others. Sometimes they corkscrew its so bad. My girl really doesn't have much of a wobble. Mostly when she's really excited, like when feeding her head bobs up and down as she gets ready to strike.

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Thanks Connie,

I noticed my bumble bee doing this the other day and it kind-of freaked me out. Glad to hear that its common in spiders.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

All pure Pearls have died..

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What does this mean? Or I guess how do you make a Pearl that isn't 'pure'? It says in the description on NERDs website that they have produced 2 from "Woma X Woma breedings". Have the two they produced not survived?

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Originally Posted by Spaniard

Some people call it a morph but IMO the Derma ball is a genetic defect also.

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What's the derma ball?

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Originally Posted by tweets_4611

What does this mean? Or I guess how do you make a Pearl that isn't 'pure'? It says in the description on NERDs website that they have produced 2 from "Woma X Woma breedings". Have the two they produced not survived?

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By adding in another gene. Like say spider or lesser or something.

I appreciate the posts but most of the stuff everyone is mentioning is over my head at this point. Can everyone explain things in layman's terms.

Ah...So there are super woma lessers or something out there? Does anyone know why they die, or is it just a 'failure to thrive' kinda thing?

As for the spiders and spinning, this is a good thread about it. There are many other threads on it, but this one seems to be a good collection of opinions.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=52677

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Originally Posted by DLawIII

I appreciate the posts but most of the stuff everyone is mentioning is over my head at this point. Can everyone explain things in layman's terms.

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What is it that you want to know?

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Originally Posted by DLawIII

Anyone want to explain further. I can't picture a duck beak on a snake. ...

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Here you go:

http://www.exoticsbynature.com/daytona07/bhb23.jpg

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Originally Posted by DLawIII

What's the derma ball?

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Derma is a scaleless BP.
Really no scales, smooth like skin

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Originally Posted by DLawIII

What's the derma ball?

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The derma ball was a normal ball python that was missing most of its scales. I believe it died after a few months though.

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Originally Posted by Schlyne

The derma ball was a normal ball python that was missing most of its scales. I believe it died after a few months though.

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It is still alive, from the last updates..

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

It is still alive, from the last updates..

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And bred - wasn't there another one? Or am I not remembering correctly?

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Originally Posted by rabernet

And bred - wasn't there another one? Or am I not remembering correctly?

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I beleive so:confused:

I will try to describe the Spider "wobbling." Some look like they have Parkinson's disease from the neck up, with the head shaking. Others exhibit drastic backward corkscreweing motions when trying to move. Maybe try looking up "Spider, BP, Spinning" etc. on YouTube? I know that someone posted a video showing the corkscrew motions.
My Spider never exhibited much of this stuff. He does sometimes have a head wobble when he gets ready to lunge for a rat; otherwise he moves as normally as my other snakes.

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Originally Posted by MATTI

Here you go:

http://www.exoticsbynature.com/daytona07/bhb23.jpg

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i think that snake is absolutely adorable. it reminds me of a dragon. cuuute.

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

What is it that you want to know?

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No I'm finding this all very helpful. I guess I just wanted to know if certain morphs tended to display unusual characteristics. I guess in some cases the answer is yes.

I'm still wondering if normal ball pythons with good blood are healthier, more active, better eaters, etc.... than the morphs.

I want to possible breed down the road and I just don't know if I want to get into the morphs. It doesn't seem like ANYOne breeds just plain vanilla BPs.

On a side note. Without knowing much about wild populations of BP's I guess I usually like the idea of captive bred snakes and not wild collected. But in the case of BP's, as the generations of these new morphs keep piling up, I think the gene pool will eventually become all muddled up and wild caught will be a necessity. Just thinking out loud.. Well actually still silently.

Is it really true that when the homozygous woma is mixed with other mutations that they thrive better? I know NERD as done pearl lessers, but I have no idea if any survived and alot of people seem hush hush about it. If the pearls all die because of some neurological defect (presumably because the homo recessive knocks out the function of some neuro gene) why would adding an unrelated mutation, like a lesser, compensate for the defect?

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Originally Posted by DLawIII

It doesn't seem like ANYOne breeds just plain vanilla BPs.

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Vanillas are a morph ;)

There are TONS of normals being bred also. The ball python in Africa is actually doing better in these years than they were doing previously. That is supposed to be due to people clearing land and planting crops that increase the rodent populations.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

There are TONS of normals being bred also. The ball python in Africa is actually doing better in these years than they were doing previously. That is supposed to be due to people clearing land and planting crops that increase the rodent populations.

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Interesting. That's good news. Any breeders out there who basically specialize in normal BP's? Kinda like Rio Bravo or Miller with Boa's. I'm sure there are but I just can't find their website.

I dont know that there are big breeders out there that specialize in breeding normal ball pythons, but lots normal ball pythons are hatched every year in captivity as "by products" (not really the word I am lookin for) of beeding morphs.

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Originally Posted by atp151415

here you go

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/ball_pearl.html

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That is so sad if they all die... That's one of the most gorgeous BP's I've ever seen :(