first feeding questions

I just got my BP today. She's never eaten yet, and i was told to wait three days to feed her.

I'm still up in the air on the live vs F/T debate, but leaning more towards f/t. I just have serious dead issues that I'll have to get over for that to work.

I've heard that BPs can be tricky about eating, especially already dead prey. Since this is her first meal, I don't know if she'd take it or not.

Do I try a f/t mouse first? I'd just really hate to waste it if she's not interested. I guess its easier to start them off on f/t than to try to switch them later, though, right? amd hoppers are the right size for now, right?

I would wait a week at least before you try to feed the first Then give it a live one but watch it close so the snake doesnt get hurt. If the snake hits it hard and has a good feeding response then try a dead one the next feeding. If it takes it then id say buy some frozen ones. if not keep feeding live and every so often try giving a dead one sometimes they will switch over time. Good luck.:snake:

A person sold you a non-started hatchling? Wow..

What do you have the snake housed in?

If the snake has never fed, wait until dark, make the room dark and offer a LIVE hopper mouse. Wait 30 minutes to an hour, do not disturb the snake, and then remove the mouse. If the snake doesn't eat, wait a week and try again.

Babies are extremely hard to get started on frozen, if not impossible.

Hopefully you have the snake in a 6qt shoebox tub with a dark hide.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Babies are extremely hard to get started on frozen, if not impossible.

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I thought most babies were eating frozen. Do they give them one live to introduce them to the concept of food and then switch to frozen right after?

I also read if you dethaw a mouse, and the snake refuses to eat, as long as the mouse as not been sitting around long it can be re-frozen for a second try.

And yeah it seems odd that you were told the snake has NEVER eaten. Even if that were true I am surprised they would admit it.

Go with live, she will be more likely to eat it. Good Luck!!

No, the majority of Ball Pythons in large and small collections are on live. If the new owner requests the snake be on f/t, then the breeder will start to switch the snake over.

All of my babies were started on live last season and they all will be started on live this season. They don't recognize f/t prey as food. It doesn't smell like food, doesn't have the proper heat signature and doesn't move like food.

You wouldn't refreeze chicken that had been sitting around on your counter all day exposed to room temperature air, bacteria, and who knows what else. There's no reason to refreeze a prey item. Refreezing, then thawing again breaks down the cell walls even more, which will result in an exploded rodent. It's not pretty nor does it smell good AT ALL. Even the snake is usually turned off of it.

I feed live because if one of my snakes doesn't eat, which is a rarity, then I can give that mouse to another snake. If no one wants it or needs it, then that mouse can be placed back into its enclosure to be fed, hydrated and have buddies until next feeding day. With frozen, you can't do that. If a snake doesn't eat, that rodent needs to be tossed out. I abhor wasting a life, therefore, I will not feed frozen to my Ball Pythons.

Now.. my boa, who would eat a piece of wood covered in fur if I offered it to her, eats frozen/thawed rabbits. They are thawed over a period of 2 days in the fridge to ensure they don't go bad, and then warmed up/washed off in the sink or bathtub of hot water.

The vast majority of breeders that I know of feed live to their collections. It is just as safe, if not safer, to feed as f/t when done properly. You can easily kill a snake if a f/t prey item isn't fully thawed or is cooked. I've been keeping Ball Pythons since 2004 and have fed live since then. My snakes have never been bitten, but have been scratched about as many times as I can count on one hand. They have a tough epidermis for a reason, and any scratches go away in a shed cycle.

To feed live prey properly, all you have to do is pre-scent the room for 20-30 minutes so the snakes know what is going on. I put the rodents in a tub w/ water bottle and food inside my snake room and turn the light off. I come back in about 30 minutes and all of the snakes are in their hides or the back of their tubs "lurking". This means "feed mode" is turned ON and they are ready to eat.

I go in the same order every single time I feed, since the snakes recognize a routine and will get used to it. I have a flashlight that I carry in my mouth just so I can see what I'm doing, but there's no other light. I grab a mouse by the base of the tail securely, open a snake's tub and drop the mouse in on the opposite side the snake is on. The mouse usually doesn't hit the floor. I feed in the snake's home tub because I'm not about to reach in and get a snake that is in feed mode. I'd rather not get bit! :)

So anyway, there's a book on why I feed live.

She came from a local reptile store that I trust dearly. They had a huge wholesale lot, and were selling the babies wholesale. They were feeding them in batches, and raised the prices on the ones that had eaten.

I'm glad to see that people here agree with feeding live. On general pet forums, people get in a hissy fit around the idea of live feeding.

My sister and her husband feed live to most of their snakes, except for their larger boas. It seems more convenient, and they haven't had any injuries so far, but i've read so much about the risks. I'm sure there still is a risk, but I'm guessing it might be exaggerated a bit. I feel better now, knowing I can feed live without seeming like a horrible person.

about that pre-scenting thing... I have pet mice and rats. Is their smell going to be a problem for her to be around constantly? I don't have another room I can keep her in...

I did not succumb to the desire for a BP years ago because I was worried about their eating habits, and I do NOT want to feed live, I would if i absolutely had to for the life of the BP but I would never have gotten one if I thought that would be necessary.

These days it is highly advertised that CH and CB are often raised on frozen, and can be expected to eat frozen reliably, and that is one of the major draws for some that want one. We have issues with feeding live, and do not want to end up with a bunch of pet mice.

okay, so i was mistaken. She's eaten twice.

My sister is the one that picked her out and brought her to me because she was coming out this way anyways, and the reptile store is by her house. Last time I was there, they hadn't eaten yet. I was under the impression that she still hadn't eaten. oops.

Kudos on the "book" Becky. I couldn't agree more.

I feed frozen/thawed because I don't want to be a rodent farmer ;)
I have not had any problems with any of my snakes not wanting to eat, except for one girl who has been a problem feeder from the day I got her.
I pre-scent and do things pretty much the same way Becky does except I hold the rats with tongs and make them do a little zombie dance. The snakes hit them hard and fast with a strike and a a few coils. Happy snakes! :D
I DO make certain that the rodents are very thawed and very smooshy and war and then I zap their head with a blow dryer for about a minute...

I think the FT/live debate depends on how many snakes you have. Seems like the more snakes people have the more likely they are to feed live.

Yeah- I've never understood 'the debate' :P
For me, I only have 16 snakes and I also don't want to raise rodents. I'm happy to get them frozen and the snakes grow and thrive on frozen thawed so that's good :D I think it's really important for those feeding f/t to really find a good supplier of rodents who offer quality rodents (not laboratory left-overs) and who kill humanely and package without feces and etc.
For others, feeding live is good. They raise their own food and so they know just what their snakes are getting- a bonus! Also, feeding live is as close to natural as the snakes can get for food- also a bonus!
So, no debate- just whatever works for each herper...

I don't raise rodents, I just go buy 250-275 every month :D

If you want to feed frozen, that's fine, but you need to feed what the snake is used to a couple more times to get him/her happy with eating. If the snake is on live adult mice, then slowly switch over to pre-killed mice offered on tongs/hemostats. After a few meals of the PK mice, then offer a VERY warm, fully thawed mouse on tongs.

It may take awhile, and some snakes just never accept f/t food. If you want a snake that will 98% of the time take frozen, get a boa. :) They are garbage disposals. Mine would eat a wood block covered in fur if I offered it to her, haha.

i think i'm going to stick with live for awhile.

I was told to wait 3 days before trying to feed her, but she seems active and hungry now. Would it be bad if I offered food sooner than three days?

If she's active, it's likely she's stressed out. From the picture you posted in your other thread, her enclosure looks big and her hides are much too big.

Try a 6qt tub, with one 4" plastic planter saucer(hole cut in the side and turned upside down), and a water bowl. You can get the 6qt shoebox tub and the planter saucer at WalMart.

Once you move her, and she's settled in, her acting hungry will consist of her sitting in her hides with her head out("lurking"). Then you can pre-scent the room, turn off the lights and drop a live small adult mouse in her enclosure. She'd do fine on either a large hopper or a small adult mouse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

There's no reason to refreeze a prey item. Refreezing, then thawing again breaks down the cell walls even more, which will result in an exploded rodent. It's not pretty nor does it smell good AT ALL. Even the snake is usually turned off of it.

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The guy that wrote the article and mentioned refreezing did it to entice a picky eater, he thought the fact that it breaks down the cell walls and changed the smell might have been why his BP preferred the twice frozen mice.

I agree it does sound icky, and could harbor bacteria, but if it was promptly refrozen it probably isn't so bad bacteria wise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

I don't raise rodents, I just go buy 250-275 every month :D

If you want to feed frozen, that's fine, but you need to feed what the snake is used to a couple more times to get him/her happy with eating. If the snake is on live adult mice, then slowly switch over to pre-killed mice offered on tongs/hemostats. After a few meals of the PK mice, then offer a VERY warm, fully thawed mouse on tongs.

It may take awhile, and some snakes just never accept f/t food. If you want a snake that will 98% of the time take frozen, get a boa. :) They are garbage disposals. Mine would eat a wood block covered in fur if I offered it to her, haha.

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OMG :O
No way!! That's an idea I had never considered!! Now, I still don't want rodents around, but this is a great way of doing things! Oh Becky- you are so smart!!!! :P
So, what, you buy them all different sizes and then just keep feeding them and offering? Do you keep them in sex segregated housing? I'd LOVE to know more!!!!

I just go up to Big Cheese Rodents(Ft Worth) every month or so, buy what I need(their live prices are wonderful BTW, same price as frozen), bring them home in this huge modified underbed box I have with ice packs inside, and separate them out when I get home. I didn't separate them this time because they were going to get fed off quickly. I only buy medium adults, which are around 15-20g each. They always give me a 50/50 split, sometimes more males(which I like because they get bigger faster).

I just can't see feeding any of my snakes a refrozen/rethawed prey item because of the chance of regurge and chance of exploding rodent. I don't want disintigrating intestines all over my snakes or all over their tubs. Bleh.

If it's thawed once, over a couple of hours in the fridge or on a counter in room temp, then warmed up to over 100 degrees to be offered to a snake, possibly left for a few hours(and it's decomposing all this time) to see if the snake will eat it, and then frozen again, isn't that a bit gross? I can't say that I would eat something that is thawed, left out for hours, then refrozen, then thawed and warmed up again. The amount of bacteria present would be astronomical. Anything that gets thawed and warmed up here, and is refused, is tossed out or offered to someone else(not that anyone else can eat a 2.5lb rabbit). If Sonja, my boa, doesn't eat(which is a rarity unless she's deep in shed), then I'll put the rabbit in a bag, and back in the fridge for a few days. I've done that once in the time I've had her, haha.