New member, need some general info from OWNERS

I have friends who have had pythons albino, ball green, and something huuuge that required a special permit and was like 18ft long. Ok maybe it wasnt a python.

I live in a large 6th fl loft in a 101 year old conctrete building. Gets colder inside in winter (maybe like 48*) but never really hot even in summer. (California). I want a pet but do not have the time or environment that would be fair for a dog or any mammal.

Ive owned reptiles and insects but never a BP. Ive got plenty of windows and natural light. Based on my situation is there anything you can recommend as far as care and keeping it happy and healthy?

Also is there a formula for feeding? I read every couple of weeks but im sure size and weight and activity of the snake are factors. What size aquarium do owners recommend? Ive looked at babies, well smaller snakes around 12" but I dont want to throw it our when it gets too big or keep bringing up larger glass for it. Also, will it get so big that I cant get a large enough tank for it up to the 6th floor?

I want to make sure I can do it right before I do it.

ya i usually throw my snakes out when they get too big as well...:rolleyes:

Most people that keep snakes, and keep alot of snakes, have separate rooms for them. That way it is easier to maintain appropriate heat.

But for one snake, you just need to ensure that your snake has a controlled environment. His/her environment will be their enclosure.

I use heat tape - flexxwatt, for each end of my enclosures. Which means having two thermostats and two separate heating devices (flexxwat, heat pads, etc.) that keep the cool end at 80-84 degrees, and the hot end at 90-94 degrees.

As well you want to measure those temps with a dual indoor/outdoor thermometer and hydrogemeter. That will also measure your humidity.

If you have the enclosure set up to a thermostats, or two thermostats, they will adjust as the temperatures in your space change, and will maintain constant temps for your snake.

Maintaining constant temps and humidity is crucial. You create an environment that has a thermal gradient and appropriate humidity, then your snake is free to move around within that environment in order to find the appropriate place it needs to be.

Good luck, BPs are a really rewarding pet.

I live in a loft and have b/w 15 - 20 bps at all times. I manage to keep their husbandry impeccable. And we have no central heating, it is all space heaters (convectaires).

I would recommend though keeping your snakes in a part of your space where you are likely to get the least amount of temp fluctuations. I keep mine in the back of the space, away from the windows.

One concern for you... is that is the temps in your space drop substantially, then that would limit your handling of your snake. You do not want to be taking it from a controlled environment to a cold environment, especially for extended periods of time.

I also keep corn snakes, milksnakes, rats, ASFs, mice, gerbils, insects, and one lizard. No one that comes into my space even knows we keep animals unless we tell them and point out where they are hiding throughout the space.

Bruce

A snake in a loft...
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...retchedout.jpg

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Originally Posted by bigballs

ya i usually throw my snakes out when they get too big as well...:rolleyes:

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Totally missed that part. :)

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Originally Posted by Derteufel

...Ive got plenty of windows and natural light...but I dont want to throw it out when it gets too big..

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Here's an idea: Go to a zoo and spend the day around all of the animals and then go back to your place. I think you might not be quite ready for the care and respect that is involved in 'keeping' animals. :weirdface

I think he's talking about the tank having to grow in size with the snake. He doesn't want to have to keep throwing away tanks as the snake gets bigger.

Tanks do not insulate well, especially in cold environments. Try an actual reptile enclosure for when the snake is older, and smaller plastic tub enclosures for when the snake is small. Plastic insulates better and isn't expensive(plus you can use the tubs for storage after the snake has outgrown them).

Usually I don't highly support tubs, but in this case I believe it's called for.

Tubs are light and easy to carry up stairs. Tubs are cheap, so getting a larger one won't break the bank. Tubs do keep humidity up without much work, and they can be made to look almost as nice as a tank.
When the snake is full grown, you could get it into a nice reptile display cage that would also be lighter than a glass tank of the same size and better looking.

Make sure, BEFORE you even look at snakes to buy, that you can afford and get the basics: Tub (12qt for babies, 15-32qt for sub adults), two identical hides (from caves to flower pots and bowls), a heavy shallow water dish (cat and dog ceramic bowls do quite nicely), Heat source (from a ZooMed UTH pad to Flexwatt heat tape for under tank heating), and a thermostat to control the heat (ReptiTemp 500R - $30. Ranco or Johnson - $80. Herpstat - $110+), and a digital thermometer preferably with probe (Acurite in/out/humidity - $12 WalMart or Lowes)

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

I think he's talking about the tank having to grow in size with the snake. He doesn't want to have to keep throwing away tanks as the snake gets bigger.

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Good catch.

To the OP... it sounds like you do not have a real strong idea on what kind of snake you are interested in. You should narrow it down *a bit*.

Pythons can get to be everywhere from 3 - 30 feet... so it really depends on the species that you like and find appealing. Then figure out if you can provide for it long term.

Ball pythons are perfect apartment pets. They do not get too large. Do not need huge ensclosures.

Other pythons can be smaller or larger... so again, depends on what you are looking for in a snake.

Bruce

Loft Lizard, thank you for the reply. Very Helpful. I AM looking at a BP sorry I was not clear.

Argenta, you nailed it, I dont want to put it in a tub. I want to do it right the first time.

SatanicIntention, ya I want to do it right once and get everything I need to take care of a BP start to finish. LL and Argenta gave me some good advice. But you are right. I do not want to get a snake that will eventually get too big for anything I can get up 6 floors and through the door.

Bigballs, this is a huge problem in Florida. I dont know if you didnt read my OP carefully, I DO NOT plan doing this.

starmom, what are you talking about?

This article has a LOT of excellent information about BP's....from how big you can expect them to get, to most of your different options in caring for them:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules....warticle&id=59

There are many methods to choose from...it'll be up to you to figure out what will work best in your particular situation. I'll offer this bit of advice though....if your home gets really chilly in the winter and you don't want to go with a plastic tub as a home....I'd spring for a professionally built enclosure designed specifically for snakes with the heating elements and t-stats already installed. It's an expensive way to go, but you get an attractive enclosure that you can be reasonably sure will keep the snake's environment at the appropriate levels. (Glass tanks would be VERY hard to use given the conditions you described)

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Originally Posted by JLC

This article has a LOT of excellent information about BP's....from how big you can expect them to get, to most of your different options in caring for them:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules....warticle&id=59

There are many methods to choose from...it'll be up to you to figure out what will work best in your particular situation. I'll offer this bit of advice though....if your home gets really chilly in the winter and you don't want to go with a plastic tub as a home....I'd spring for a professionally built enclosure designed specifically for snakes with the heating elements and t-stats already installed. It's an expensive way to go, but you get an attractive enclosure that you can be reasonably sure will keep the snake's environment at the appropriate levels. (Glass tanks would be VERY hard to use given the conditions you described)

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Ill read that also, and thanks. Ya I wanted to get advice from owners based on my situation. Plastic not glass? It does get around 50 at lowest in the winter inside, it is SoCal so there arent extreme variations at least not for humans. It never gets above 75 - high 70's inside and thats on a hot day. Its the cold Im worried about.

Bruce, since you seem to be very familiar and are in a loft (or anyoen else) if I get the suggested 36x18x12 enclosure for a baby BP, that wil eventually become an adult will that be ok? Do they tend to prefer smaller areas when they are smaller? Im kind of worried that glass might get cold well be hard to keep warm? Ill get what you recommended if you think that it right for my place as Ive described it.


Oh ya, also where do you all suggest I get the snake from?

I was very against tubs when I first started, which was only a couple months ago, but as I cleaned and sanitized and tried to keep temps and humidity in order, I am glad I stuck with the plastic and not glass. In addition to this, once your bp gets a little older, it will almost always be in a hide, so the visibility aspect of having glass is almost nullified. Hope this helps, and if you want some more personal experience tips just shoot me a pm.

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Originally Posted by ThyTempest

I was very against tubs when I first started, which was only a couple months ago, but as I cleaned and sanitized and tried to keep temps and humidity in order, I am glad I stuck with the plastic and not glass. In addition to this, once your bp gets a little older, it will almost always be in a hide, so the visibility aspect of having glass is almost nullified. Hope this helps, and if you want some more personal experience tips just shoot me a pm.

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Hey, I dont feel like pming. I need some tips though! Why dont any of my 500+ bp's need or use a hide?

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Originally Posted by Derteufel

Bruce, since you seem to be very familiar and are in a loft (or anyoen else) if I get the suggested 36x18x12 enclosure for a baby BP, that wil eventually become an adult will that be ok? Do they tend to prefer smaller areas when they are smaller? Im kind of worried that glass might get cold well be hard to keep warm? Ill get what you recommended if you think that it right for my place as Ive described it.


Oh ya, also where do you all suggest I get the snake from?

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The best source for a Ball python would be a reputable breeder or good reptile show. If you're in SoCal, there's a whopper of a show coming up in SanDiego you could check out.

As for the mentioned enclosure, if you got one that 'large' and ended up with a baby snake you would have to add lots of hides and fake plants or crumpled newspaper to reduce the open space and make it feel more secure. These snakes don't like wide open spaces and can get stressed out if in a really big open cage.
Every snake handles things differently, but I think if you made sure to add lots of (safe) decor to fill the space and make sure you can get the proper temperature gradients, then the display cage should be alright.

seems there is no right answer glass or plastic... given my place I think I could make either work. Plastic is just... sooo plastic. hahaha. Like im going to sleep in some plastic then huff paint. Iono just doesnt seem lik eit would be comfortable but this is strictly my opinion and probabyl has nothing to do with snakes.

Plastic tubs are easy to maintain heat and humidity in. There are even some with very clear sides for the visibility aspect, Just picked up a couple Sterilite brand ones for the two I'm expecting. If you want to use glass aquariums, though, I'd recommend insulating the sides with foam or something, and keeping the top mostly covered with maybe a damp towel to help the humidity. :)

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Originally Posted by Derteufel

Bruce, since you seem to be very familiar and are in a loft (or anyoen else) if I get the suggested 36x18x12 enclosure for a baby BP, that wil eventually become an adult will that be ok? Do they tend to prefer smaller areas when they are smaller? Im kind of worried that glass might get cold well be hard to keep warm? Ill get what you recommended if you think that it right for my place as Ive described it.


Oh ya, also where do you all suggest I get the snake from?

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I personally would not put a baby bp in an enclosure that size. I keep my babies in plastic shoeboxes... see the pic.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...bum/Rashid.jpg

And that shoebox is sitting in this rack... where I keep most of the snakes.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...ackedited3.jpg

This is the quarantine rack in my office... opposite end of the loft from the rest of the snakes.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p...ackedited4.jpg

I keep all the snakes in tubs. I would never use a tank with a bp. Tanks have too many open sides, especailly if you are in a large open space, the snake is not in a separate room and will be exposed to every stressor, vibration, noise, and activity in your apt.

They are impossible to maintain proper humidity in... I had one with my first BP and I would never do it again. The only things I keep in tanks are my bearded dragon and my African Soft-Furred Rats.

Also they lose heat on all 4 sides... so it makes your heating pad run at a higher rate and at all times (means you'll be replacing it more often). Plastic tubs do not cool as fast, or transfer as much heat to the surrounding environment. Probably not a real big deal in the summer... but come winter, if you space gets really cold, even with a UTH running full blast, you could risk the snake getting too cold. (Or the temp spiking and worse... ending up with a burned snake).

I never let my temps drop below 80 degrees.

I cannot remember the member that suggested a plastic display viv... but I would say that that, or something similar would be your best bet. Only has an open window on one spot and will not transfer our heat and/or humidity.

Your snake does not care if it is in a plastic or glass viv... what it cares about is having proper temps, humidity, and feeling secure.

Meeting those are critical if you want a snake that is eating, shedding, and defecating with consistency.

My suggestion... would be to start with a tub... and once you have a really good grasp of husbandry, and if your snake is thriving... then if you are comfortable and feel you can manage to meet its needs (and know what its needs are). Then try and move it into a tank.

Too many people start with tanks before they understand what they need to give the snake, then get invested in them and they seem to be a really hard thing to give up.

He does not need a big enclosure as a babe. So get him started in an appropriate tub, cheap and easy to change as he gets bigger. And then once you decide on a final size for him, then invest in a larger enclosure.

Another huge mistake people make... thinking they can set a baby up in the size that it will need as an adult. A one-stop setup and shopping idea.

It simply does not work with BPs. They will not thrive in that sort of environment.

Hope that helps,
Bruce

Addendum:

Since that snake will be in an open space... yes, it needs the appropriate sized hides. One on each end of its thermal gradient (hot - cool side).

Not using hides can be done, but as a new owner, and an owner that will not have his snake in a rack, or in a separate room... hides are imperative.

Jas is talking about advanced husbandry, something that you do not need to worry about right now. Your priority is to have an appropriate space set up so that when you bring your snake home he can settle in and be a snake.

It will give you a both a positive start and benefits snake and keeper. :)

B

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Hey, I dont feel like pming. I need some tips though! Why dont any of my 500+ bp's need or use a hide?

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im guessing JAS kept his 500+ balls in tubs,if a ball are kept in glass it would prolly need a hide, so it wouldnt matter if you could see it through glass or not through plastic... ;)



any way, D,
i was, and still am kinda against temps, but they have seemed to be the easiest things to keep balls it, my other constrictors are in display type cages, but the balls stick to the plastic.
personally, i like having hides in my tubs for the balls, because for their personal security, i believe they like it better.
you dont have to use a hide, but mine eat for me consistantly when they have hides, this may not be true for you, or for others... but thats my personal experience, and i have had BPs for about 3 years...

Loft, You've ansered many of my concerns and I do not care if its a one shop or not, I just wanted the correct answers and I can tell you know what you are doing. I trust you.
Chica, thank you also. On concern of glass is that is dissapates heat, rather it cools fast so a UTH turn up makes for a hot bottom but the rest of the space inst so hot cant be good. I guess if my temps were constant in my room it wouldnt be so much of a problem but these are some of the things im thinking about.

Recommendation on a tub and where to pick a baby up? I need a trustworthy source who knew what they were doing when they bred the snake.


Also... HUGE detail I forgot to mention. I am a full time musician. We are in the process of recording our 5th release and alot of times Im working in my place. No one outside these walls can here in this building. I know loud crazy music would stress a snake but...

Its a 1000sq ft place Ive got huuuge closets and a huuuge bathroom. If I put a shelf in the bathroom and the tub on a shelf would the snake be comfortable in there? I shower with the door open so it doesnt get steamy but if it did would the snake like that?

All my questions are to find if its reasonable to bring a BP here. I wont force it to work especially if it hurts the snake. But if its workable Ill manage it but these are my constraints.

Thanks again you guys, especially LL. you fooookng rock.

Vielen dank alles.

I had thought about that... the noise factor and was going to bring it up in my next post... my space is cooking hot right now and the snakes are using the fan so I am up late.

Again, most people have the luxury of a separate room for their snakes... but I have that problem too. I keep my snakes in the quietest part of my space... but when we have parties. I try and move them even further in. I cover the tanks, and try and really minimize the traffic and the noise for them.

I would say that when you have nights you know are going to be noisy... move the snake on those nights.

I would not keep a snake in a bathroom... but a closest on a shelf would be fine. They are sensitive to vibrations and can experience stress if they are in a high traffic area. Consider to that they are nocturnal, so if they are in a high traffic area that can disrupt their day/night rythms.

I would go so far as to place a buffer under the tub... a few towels, blankets, that sort of thing.

No problems on the advice. I had to work through all these issues when I got my snakes too. Having a one room space means you do have to consider these things. The more you understand the set ups you need and how the environment will impact the snakes, the better you will be equipped to deal with it.

Everyone I know with snakes has separate rooms for them. So I am glad to help.

And one thing you need to be VERY cautious of, is ensuring your snake's enclosure is secure. BPs are brilliant and determined escape artists.

Losing a snake in a closed room... not so bad... losing a snake in a loft... is very very very stressful!

Snake proof your space should it happen. Plug up holes, figure out in advance the places they might hide if loose. I pulled out all my appliances to look for holes in the walls and plugged them. I also placed a stopper under the door to my laundry room... so that they could not get under the door and we always make sure that door is closed. As well I made sure they could not get under the front door.

Any more questions do not hesitate to ask...

Bruce

wow. people are really hating on glass aquariums here... i have very successfully used aquariums for years. as my collection grew i did switch over everything to tubs and racks but it is not impossible to successfully keep snakes in aquariums. i still have all my aquariums and use them mostly for new animals going through quarantine. i will say that tubs are easier to clean because they are lighter and wont break if dropped. i also like the fact that they are not clear and i feel that that adds some sense of security to my animals. dont get me wrong, i love using plastic tubs but if you want to use an aquarium it is very possible.

if i were in your situation i would probably keep a baby bp in a smaller tub(or aquarium) but one big enough to house it for maybe a year(depending on growth rate). during that year i would look into reptile enclosures on the net and find an nice one around 36"x18"x12", more or less, and move the little guy over when hes big enough.

i wouldnt worry about the music situation too much as long as the bp is in a spot you feel is pretty secure. i just wouldnt recommend putting the enclosure next to a drum kit. i keep my bps in a room the the basement and my drum kit is in the next room but on the opposite end of the house. i practice all the time and jam with buddies the neighbours may complain at times but my snakes are ok with it. they told me so...:rolleyes:

i have to make up for that sarcastic comment so i hope this helps you out in some way! good luck!

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Originally Posted by Derteufel

...starmom, what are you talking about?

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I thought you were talking about throwing the snake out the window when (if) it got too big...?!?!?!?! Oh my gosh- I totally read that wrong!! :rolleye2: Gods, you have every right to be confused by me!!!! :weirdface

Okay- I'm up to speed here ;)
There is another option to plastic and fish tanks and they are called reptile cages. Check this out: http://www.reptilebasics.com/2x3-Cag...h-p-16286.html This is a reptile cage from a very well respected business. For the cold temps in your apt, I would recommend heating with a radiant heat panel (RHP). Radiant heat panels not only provide the snakes with the belly warmth that they need, but RHP's also help to raise the ambient temps which it sounds like you need in your situation. You would need a thermostat to control the RHP. Because this is a reptile cage, only the front door is see-through, adding to the comfort and security of the snake. RHP's do not zap humidity as with lights over a tank.
Really check out these cages specifically designed for reptiles. I have tubs in a rack and I also have 6 of these cages. I am slowly moving all of my snakes into the cages. These cages are easier to clean because the snakes have space to get out of their own feces. This cage also provides exercise since they cruise around at night. Frankly, I'm feeling really bad about keeping snakes in tubs these days....

BigBalls: We are not actually Hating on glass tanks, as I personally prefer them. The OP lives in a loft apt. on the 6th floor, so hauling glass tanks around really isn't a viable option for him.

Loft Lizard: Those posts of yours are Terrif!! :gj::gj: I also live in an apartment, and recently moved down from the 3rd floor with my snakes (not fun) so I can sort of relate to the OPs situation. But you are Da Man for this thread!

Derteufel: I also think a shelf in a closet would work well, as long as you remembered to have air circulating in there :D Sounds like you're really starting to get down to it.
Also, I should have realized from your name that you would be German. Cool. I'm 1/2 German, but have sadly forgotten most of the language. :(
Good tubs to use for a baby would be a 12 quart Sterilite or Rubbermaid, easily found at places like WalMart and Lowes. I'll let the others chime in with breeder recommendations.

Ja genau! Im American, American born. But you got it. Cool ya the closet is large and mostly empy and it would only be during the times im playing loud. Thank you all.

I am new here so asking a question not offering advice. I bought my first BP last week, wanted one for years but then succumbed to an impulse buy at a major pet supply chain. Anyways I went with the 10 gal tank and set it up in the family room, which is where we (dogs, cats, and myself) spend most of our time.

Is it wrong to set him up there? He is very young, but after I had him for 2 days I offered him frozen fuzzy mouse and he gobbled it down, then ate another one right after it. He spends his time in the hides but since he is eating like a little pig I thought he must not be THAT stressed by the movement (and occasional loud barking) that goes on in the room.

I figured if they can get used to be handled by humans, they should be able to get used to a moderate traffic area in the house. I thought babies were often more skiddish than captive bred adults.

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Originally Posted by Argentra

BigBalls: We are not actually Hating on glass tanks, as I personally prefer them. The OP lives in a loft apt. on the 6th floor, so hauling glass tanks around really isn't a viable option for him.

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why is the OP going to be hauling them up and down the stairs all day? if i lived on the 100th floor would i have to leave my 10 or 40 gal tanks and only be able to bring up really light things? haha. im just joking here dont take it too seriously...;)

im not so passionate about aquariums that i must defend them to the death. i guess im trying to say that there are always options. so do whatever works for the snake and you.

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Originally Posted by Sonya610

I am new here so asking a question not offering advice. I bought my first BP last week, wanted one for years but then succumbed to an impulse buy at a major pet supply chain. Anyways I went with the 10 gal tank and set it up in the family room, which is where we (dogs, cats, and myself) spend most of our time.

Is it wrong to set him up there? He is very young, but after I had him for 2 days I offered him frozen fuzzy mouse and he gobbled it down, then ate another one right after it. He spends his time in the hides but since he is eating like a little pig I thought he must not be THAT stressed by the movement (and occasional loud barking) that goes on in the room.

I figured if they can get used to be handled by humans, they should be able to get used to a moderate traffic area in the house. I thought babies were often more skiddish than captive bred adults.

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I'll go ahead and PM you my answer, so as not to hijack this thread. :)

Exactly Julian. Im not oppsed to either jut want whats best for the snake given my environment. And ya its not carrying it in because the elevators are large but its just a waste to keep bringing tanks up IF it not necessary. Just looking for the most efficeint way that also benefits the BP.

You guys are cool.

i've read through this thread and really the only advice i can give is make sure you can keep your temps and humidity correct at all times. i keep my one and only BP in my bedroom and my bedroom is about 85 degrees or hotter at all times... yikes yes it kinda sucks tryna sleep in the summer with that kind of heat but my snake is healthy and that's all that matters. it doesn't sound like the place you live is very friendly sounding for an animal that comes from africa, but that's just my opinion!

oh yes and i use a tank, and seeing as it's my one and only, i dont' see a problem with it, but if i had oodles of snakes, or had to go to extremes to keep temp/humidity correct, i'd probably go with a tub as well.

good luck :)

Im looking for opinions from owners. Feel free and thank you.

An idea for the OP, a lot of these people have multiple snakes. That can be quite a bit different than someone with ONE snake as their main pet, as single snake owners often want enclosures that are visually appealing (sweater boxes are not that appealing).

One thing you should maybe mention is how much you want to spend on this enclosure. There are some awesome enclosures out there, well designed and very attractive, but of course they can run into several hundred or thousands of dollars.

Do you want something that is good for your snake but also very visually appealing? Do you have a budget to work with?

Good question because its something I have thoguht out.

The snake isnt a toy or convo peice. I rarely let people into my place. Its decorated like a cemetary, even building a 10ft cemetary get to section off one of the 3 walled rooms. Point is...

Yes there is something about me that would like it to look a certain way because it makes me happy. The same way that if I see someone throw a container on the ground or just find it there I pick it up and throw it away. Though I try to do it to their face heh. Point is Ive got ideas how how id like it to look BUT this is a life and I want what is good for the snake first, if I can find a balance that is healthy for the snake then yay.

Several hundreds Im open to. I want to look at all my options up to several 100's and weigh them. Snakes health / cost. If cheap is healthy but not visually appealing then that it is. If I can get a cost effective semi nive to look at area that is good for the snake then thats it.

As stated I am new at this, but the cage that StarMom posted seems like a really good basic design. http://www.reptilebasics.com/2x3-Cag...h-p-16286.html

Solid walls and top, easy to regulate heat and humidity, drop front. I believe balls prefer solid walls for privacy, and it is less scary for them to be approached from the side (vs. a hand swooping down from the top). They prefer floor space over cage height. This is the type of cage style I plan to upgrade to when my baby BP is a bit older.

You can get creative regarding stands and tops or whatever to make it fit in with your lofts decor. If you search they have similar styles in wood etc...

Ya the shelf and keeping it off the ground will take care of itself. LoftLizard, others too like Argenta have given me broad spectrum of ideas. Im piecing them together and figuring out what works best for teh place I live in, for the BP. Im narrowing it down. The thermostats and UTH seem straight forward after a conatainer choice is made. My room is usually low lit though I open a curtain for sunlight at times but just a crack. So im feeling my way around. I dont want to do the trial and error method with a life. The noise is something I think will be my biggest hurdle.

I started out with one snake and kept her in tubs. First using dimmers for the heat pads and then went and bought a Herpstat 2 and some flexwatt.

For someone with ONE snake in a cold apartment, I'd recommend using small plastic tubs until the snake is old enough for a display cage.

You'll start out with a 15qt tub, then as the snake grows bump it up to a 32qt, then maybe a 41qt so they get used to the size, and then to a 3x2 or 4x2 plastic display cage. You still may have to insulate the display cage but it will at least look nicer in the end than a tank would.

Using a glass tank for this person's situation is not feasible. They are heavy, fragile, hard to keep properly heated, drafty, and the glass will always try to be the temperature of the room. I know I don't want my snake resting up against 50 degree glass. That's going to leach the heat out of the snake and cause illness.

All that is needed is a thermostat(digital not analog), flexwatt digital thermometer/hygrometer, small tub w/lid, bungee cords or binder clips, newspaper for bedding, 1-2 hides, water bowl, and possibly some foil tape so you can tape the flexwatt onto a shelf so it doesn't wiggle around. That's it! :D

Y aIm thinking some sort of cage, not glass, flexwatt, digi thermos, and 2 hides and the water. Ive got to nail the humidity and what to fil the cage with, not wood chips I know.

this is coming along.

I think you'll do great. The critical thing is understanding why people recommend what they do.

These are not arbitrary things being thrown out there. :)

Knowing the why makes the decisions easier to make.

I do think you are best to start with a tub, learn your husbandry, and then work up to a larger dispay.

I do not hate tanks and display vivs, but I do consider them to be in the area of "advanced husbandry" and sadly, most people start with them, and then spend several months trying to perfect their husbandry with the snake in the enclosure.

I think what you are doing is great. You figure out what you need and then you set it up, you let it run, and once it is stable, then you bring the snake home.

Most people find snake forums after they have the snake, and sadly often, after they start having problems.

It is a rare treat to get to talk with keepers that are still pre-snake. :)

Bruce

PS: If you ever leave me a message in a thead and I do not see it... feel free to PM me. I do not attend to the forum daily so sometimes the threads I am part of disappear before I get back.

Exactly Bruce. I want to hear what people think regarding my situation and their own and I can determine the people who actually have a very good idea of things and I like ot hear peoples setups and what they find ____ in ____ situations. Then I can think, inderstand, then apply. I dont mind spending some money as long as im not unecesarrily overlappting or going in circles. Taking steps is fine. And of course if im going to do it, I want it to be right for the snake. Im still pretty young but ive been on my own for several years and never anywhere I can keep a pet and I enjoyed having dogs and the other reptiles before. Ive had Imperial scorpions, they are amazing to watch and I still look at pictures of them and read up but they arent much to hanlde and they dont really do much hahaha. Nice to look at and interesting. Ive handled snakes even had a 4' - 4.5' rattle snake wander right up to me in a mountain park in the Santa Monica mountains. No kidding I was nervous just a little at first but... Ill save this story for the next post.

So im sitting in a 30m sq ft grassy area with 3 large park benches space far apart. Im sitting on one on the table feet on the bench and I look over my book and there is a rattle snake sitting there kind of oscilating his head side to side with his tongue in and out just sizing me up. then slowly comes toward me. I was wearing leather boots to my knees and I was high enough up and far away so I slowly creep on to the table. It slithers under the table and out the other side very calmly. So I put my feet on the bench on the other side as it comes out then step down 12" away from it. It stops not looking at me then slithers forward slowly. I follow slowly still a little nervous for 2 minutes. I stop and the snake turned toward my direction and we both changed direction. Im still 1 - 3 ft from it this whole time. Then it heads for the small street leading to the "more parking" area so I decide to walk it across. We slowly make it half way across the narrow street and this guy pulls just past in front of us stops jumps out about 3m away "is that yout snake! is that your snak! thats a NW Diamond Back! HONEY GET THE CAMERA!" I said no im just walking it across the street. The snake stops, the guys gf starts panicing and I get nervous he tellls her its cool starts taking pictures. Then a car full of asians, looked like a tourist family, pulls up bhind and the snake and I are in the middle of the street. im about 2 -3' away from it. Suddenly it becomes a little aggressive and starts to scrunch up and move in on the guy with the camera who starts say "Oh F#@#$ OH @#$%#..." and backing away the snake starts to get closer. Dont ask me what or why... but I kneeled onto one knee and the snake instanly stopped turned back toward me went right under me I could feel the pressure of it against my left ankle then crosses the remaiming 2 ft into the bushes at the side of the street. No one said anything the guy just turned got in his car and left. This isnt why im getting one. Ive handled BP and albinos but never anything happend this special. Just an interesting story. Ive got come cell phone pics. Ill get them up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Derteufel

"is that yout snake! is that your snak! thats a NW Diamond Back! HONEY GET THE CAMERA!" I said no im just walking it across the street.

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Good story! LOL...the part about "Is that your snake?" is hilarious!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Derteufel

Ive got to nail the humidity and what to fil the cage with, not wood chips I know.

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you can definitely use wood chips, as long as you are careful about what kind of wood. It's best to start off the first couple months at least with a simple substrate of newspaper or paper towels so that you can carefully monitor your snake's output but once you get the hang of feeding and your snake proves to be healthy, you have some choices if you like wood chips.

I alternate between shredded aspen in the summer and shredded cypress in the winter. The cypress helps raise humidity, and looks great. Aspen does not raise humidity.
The key with using loose substrate is taking measures to prevent ingestion of it during feeding. Some people feed in a seperate tub with a paper substrate (or nothing at all) and some (like me) are able to feed on a plate or paper towel placed on top of the substrate right in the home enclosure. This second option is really designed for feeding prey that is already dead, otherwise it would just walk away from the clean feeding area.

anyway, good luck. I was thinking that if you wanted to dress up a tub, tank, or cage setup you could create a tombstone facade around it. you could even put the name of the snake on the tombstone. LOL!

fish mommy thants for the aspen and cypress contrst. And thats is a good idea about the decoration... Ill find something horror filled im sure. hmmm now Im thinking about it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Derteufel

So im sitting in a 30m sq ft grassy area with 3 large park benches space far apart. Im sitting on one on the table feet on the bench and I look over my book and there is a rattle snake sitting there kind of oscilating his head side to side with his tongue in and out just sizing me up. then slowly comes toward me. I was wearing leather boots to my knees and I was high enough up and far away so I slowly creep on to the table. It slithers under the table and out the other side very calmly. So I put my feet on the bench on the other side as it comes out then step down 12" away from it. It stops not looking at me then slithers forward slowly. I follow slowly still a little nervous for 2 minutes. I stop and the snake turned toward my direction and we both changed direction. Im still 1 - 3 ft from it this whole time. Then it heads for the small street leading to the "more parking" area so I decide to walk it across. We slowly make it half way across the narrow street and this guy pulls just past in front of us stops jumps out about 3m away "is that yout snake! is that your snak! thats a NW Diamond Back! HONEY GET THE CAMERA!" I said no im just walking it across the street. The snake stops, the guys gf starts panicing and I get nervous he tellls her its cool starts taking pictures. Then a car full of asians, looked like a tourist family, pulls up bhind and the snake and I are in the middle of the street. im about 2 -3' away from it. Suddenly it becomes a little aggressive and starts to scrunch up and move in on the guy with the camera who starts say "Oh F#@#$ OH @#$%#..." and backing away the snake starts to get closer. Dont ask me what or why... but I kneeled onto one knee and the snake instanly stopped turned back toward me went right under me I could feel the pressure of it against my left ankle then crosses the remaiming 2 ft into the bushes at the side of the street. No one said anything the guy just turned got in his car and left. This isnt why im getting one. Ive handled BP and albinos but never anything happend this special. Just an interesting story. Ive got come cell phone pics. Ill get them up.

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Nah, it aint mine. Just walking a snake across the street! :8:

Personally, I would have bagged it and relocated it away from human establishments, or called to have someone remove it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Nah, it aint mine. Just walking a snake across the street! :8:

Personally, I would have bagged it and relocated it away from human establishments, or called to have someone remove it.

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Illegal. Its a large mountain park and there are many snakes including rattle, dear, coyote,, rabbits squirrels amphibians even wild cats. Mountains and mountaints trees plants all sorts of things. Aaaaaand I didnt have a bag. ya serious, taking my pet rattle snake for a walk guy... he was just so excited.

Later after all my tubs are cleaned, i will post some pics, i use cyprus mulch in ALL of my snakes cages, balls, bloods, boas, and carpets... it keeps humidity perfectly for me, and the only thing you must do is freeze it before you use it... =]

i paid $1.69 or somethin like that at lowes and got a big bag, i just dry it out and freeze it a few days before i clean cages =]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Derteufel

Illegal. Its a large mountain park and there are many snakes including rattle, dear, coyote,, rabbits squirrels amphibians even wild cats. Mountains and mountaints trees plants all sorts of things. Aaaaaand I didnt have a bag. ya serious, taking my pet rattle snake for a walk guy... he was just so excited.

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Oh, it sounded like it was in the middle of a city.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Oh, it sounded like it was in the middle of a city.

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Ya it kind of his. Have you been to southern california? The beach in decent 70 degree weather, then drive 2 hours to bear and you are in the snow. Downtown is full of highrises and alleys that smell of piss, and Topanga and SM mountains, green, trees, wild life and streams. Kinda cool.