about breeders that dont allow visitors?

I have plans in the future to expand my ball python collection to include a few morphs. For the most part I know what I want, and for the more expensive morphs I may breed a little bit to get them. Since I have time before I get them (a year at least unless something exceptional comes up) I've been emailing breeders, close to where I live or travel (upstate NY or eastern PA) to see their facilities and look at their breeding stock and stuff to deside who I want to buy from later.

I've run into some breeders who dont allow "outsiders" to visit their facilities. I understand this is a business and each business owner has their own methods of running their business.. but i perfer to see what im going to buy IF possible as i know tons of people buy from big breeders and have thier animals shipped with no problems, but I figure, if i can save 50.00 on shipping because i DRIVE BY the place, that is 50.00 worth of food or bedding that i can have for my animals.

What do you guys think about this business pratice?

I feel like im being forced away. Pictures CAN lie, i'm a photographer, i know this better than most.

Picture this...

Stranger comes into your facility, cases the place, comes back, steals ALL THE ANIMALS.


There you go. That is why.


Trusting people is hard. Shipping is easier.

I don't see a problem with having a closed facility. Some people run their business out of their home and probably don't want strangers in their home just because they wanna see some snakes because they might buy one later (or scope out their home for theft attempt)... :2cent:

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

I don't see a problem with having a closed facility. Some people run their business out of their home and probably don't want strangers in their home just because they wanna see some snakes because they might buy one later (or scope out their home for theft attempt)... :2cent:

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And lady Ohh, i cant figure out how to quote two things

This is the reason im given most often. Theft or attempted theft is the reason they no longer allow visitors.

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Originally Posted by clockwork

I have plans in the future to expand my ball python collection to include a few morphs. For the most part I know what I want, and for the more expensive morphs I may breed a little bit to get them. Since I have time before I get them (a year at least unless something exceptional comes up) I've been emailing breeders, close to where I live or travel (upstate NY or eastern PA) to see their facilities and look at their breeding stock and stuff to deside who I want to buy from later.

I've run into some breeders who dont allow "outsiders" to visit their facilities. I understand this is a business and each business owner has their own methods of running their business.. but i perfer to see what im going to buy IF possible as i know tons of people buy from big breeders and have thier animals shipped with no problems, but I figure, if i can save 50.00 on shipping because i DRIVE BY the place, that is 50.00 worth of food or bedding that i can have for my animals.

What do you guys think about this business pratice?

I feel like im being forced away. Pictures CAN lie, i'm a photographer, i know this better than most.

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There are liabilities with letting people into a facility to see the animals, that do incur certain insurance policies in case something were to happen.

Also, they have a large collection of animals, if you were to go to a pet store, handle the animals and bring something with you into their facility it could be quite damaging.

Reputable breeders will always try to ensure that the pictured animals are represented honestly, but also to that cannot guarantee the color on your monitor.

Finally, I have to restate that they aren't a pet shop and really don't have to let you come and hand pick them in person. If you wanted to see the animals in person and the breeder attends shows, I would think this is a better avenue as the breeder has complete control over how his animals are brought back into his facility.

So in all, I don't think a breeder has any obligation to let you in his building, and if he were to let you in, it would be a special visit.

If this were simply a pick up, I can see the value in going to meet the breeder, but I don't know why it has to be hand picked in person. Again, honest breeders will represent their animals honestly in pictures.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clockwork

And lady Ohh, i cant figure out how to quote two things

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in each post, there's this little icon:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/imag...iquote_off.gif
just click that and it will do a multi-quote for you.

Quote:

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This is the reason im given most often. Theft or attempted theft is the reason they no longer allow visitors.

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So, does this bother you? or is that reason not a good one?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

Picture this...

Stranger comes into your facility, cases the place, comes back, steals ALL THE ANIMALS.


There you go. That is why.


Trusting people is hard. Shipping is easier.

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Excellent point, I overlooked.
I'm already paranoid of others as it is, this is the icing on the cake.

I say this...

I have had people on this forum into my house. Into my snake room.

They know what is there and where they are...

Do I trust them?? Yes.

Do I trust everyone?? Heck no...

I would rather bring animals to a safe location between than have every customer in my house...

being ripped off, and bugs.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

being ripped off, and bugs.

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and this guy: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cust...tar1753_21.gif

The main 2 reasons has to be theft and mites. I have a 50 snake collection that got infested with mites by a friend going to a pet store, handleing snakes, and bringing them to my collection. Took an entire weekend to treat all my animals and get rid of them. Imagine if I had a 2-300 snake collection and this happened!!

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

and this guy: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cust...tar1753_21.gif

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YEAH!!!!!....hey wait!..

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

and this guy: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cust...tar1753_21.gif

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This is seriously my favorite avatar ever. :D

I agree with the reasons given.

I have bought several snakes off of a breeder that is local to me.

He has a great rep, produces excellent snakes, and I have no reason to see his 'facility'. When I start selling my snakes. I doubt I will let people into my house. Key point, most breeders have a home and not facility.

On the flip side, I have adopted a few snakes off of sites such as C-list... and it is important for me to see how the snake is being kept. I need to know if it has proper husbandry.

I have gone to people's homes and you know they are uncomfortable having a stranger in their house, and it is just a really unpleasant experience for everyone involved.

Bruce

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Excellent point, I overlooked.
I'm already paranoid of others as it is, this is the icing on the cake.

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Lol :)

I'm definitely getting a security system and "other" theft deterants.

JonV

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Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

Lol :)

I'm definitely getting a security system and "other" theft deterants.

JonV

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"other" ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

in each post, there's this little icon:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/imag...iquote_off.gif
just click that and it will do a multi-quote for you.



So, does this bother you? or is that reason not a good one?

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Thanks for the advice on the multi quote thing. im pretty forum-tarded.

I think it is an extremely valid reason. I mean, i wouldn't want things stolen from me, and that would be ANYTHING. animals, property, etc.

I wasn't saying i wanted to hand pick my animals. just see the parents, as one of the morphs i want to get in the future is a pastel. some brown out, and some are extraordinary, that was all i was saying. I think hand picking an animal is something you get to do ONLY if the breeder allows you. (in person anyway)

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

being ripped off, and bugs.

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MIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITES!

*cough*I-saw-some-mites-this-weekend*cough*

Thinking about them again just makes me itchy...

Thinking about this topic more in depth, and thinking about it now that I have many many BP's, makes me appreciate even more those breeders who have invited me into their facility/homes.

But will I do the same when it comes time for me to sell some ball pythons? To be honest, I'm not sure. It will probably depend on the person/circumstance.

The potential loss is made worse by the fact these are animals that we've spent so many hours with and developed a bond with. Stealing my TV...that's easily replaceable...but stealing a snake I've worked so hard to raise/breed? That would be devastating.

That's it, I'm puting in a motion sensor laser system.

JonV

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Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

The potential loss is made worse by the fact these are animals that we've spent so many hours with and developed a bond with. Stealing my TV...that's easily replaceable...but stealing a snake I've worked so hard to raise/breed? That would be devastating.

That's it, I'm puting in a motion sensor laser system.

JonV

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And a wide moat with sharks strapped with laser beams on their heads.

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Originally Posted by clockwork

anted to hand pick my animals. just see the parents, as one of the morphs i want to get in the future is a pastel. some brown out, and some are extraordinary, that was all i was saying. I think hand picking an animal is something you get to do ONLY if the breeder allows you. (in person anyway)

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Maybe if the person is close you could work out a compromise to meet somewhere and see the offspring firsthand?

JonV

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

And a wide moat with sharks strapped with laser beams on their heads.

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FRIKKIN' laser beams on their FRIKKIN' heads!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

And a wide moat with sharks strapped with laser beams on their heads.

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All I want are some frickin' sharks with some frickin' laser beams strapped to their heads. Is that too much to ask??

JonV

Neener neener! I beat you! :P

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Originally Posted by cassandra

Neener neener! I beat you! :P

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But I think my spelling of frickin' is better! :P

JonV

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Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

Maybe if the person is close you could work out a compromise to meet somewhere and see the offspring firsthand?

JonV

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I was just wondering what others thought and you guys definately brought up points i hadn't even thought of. I suppose i've taken security systems for granted.

When the time comes, I think I know what I'll do :)

When I have someone local that is interested in a snake, I meet them in a designated public location with ALL the animals I can offer.

It works, and its safer.

And I bring the burly guy with me too..

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

When I have someone local that is interested in a snake, I meet them in a designated public location with ALL the animals I can offer.

It works, and its safer.

And I bring the burly guy with me too..

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I met someone in a parking lot to buy some BP's once...and I couldn't help but feel like the cops were going to pull up thinking we were dealing drugs. What type of public places work best??

JonV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

I met someone in a parking lot to buy some BP's once...and I couldn't help but feel like the cops were going to pull up thinking we were dealing drugs. What type of public places work best??

JonV

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Well, you can do the parking lots, or even just an outdoor park or something.. Somewhere where you can sit down and discuss.

I've done... Walmart Parking lots, Furniture Store Parking Lots, Lollicup :D, a local park, an In-N-Out, and a couple more I'm sure I'm forgetting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

I met someone in a parking lot to buy some BP's once...and I couldn't help but feel like the cops were going to pull up thinking we were dealing drugs.

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Yep been there done that.. Ask Daniel about how I got Odin(100% het pied) dark stormy night in an empty parking lot at like 9:00 at night. Real cloak and dagger kind of crap

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

Picture this...

Stranger comes into your facility, cases the place, comes back, steals ALL THE ANIMALS.
There you go. That is why.
Trusting people is hard. Shipping is easier.

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my thoughts exactly.. were not "breeders" yet and we let very few people into our home for the SAME reason, we could NEVER afford to replace the collection we have let alone those who have THOUSANDS into their animals/facilities. For many people their snakes are their livelyhood... not just furniture that can be replaced, were talking animals, living investments. We have delt with one breeder for quite sometime who considers us "friends" as we do to them... we have never once asked to go to his home or warehouse where he keeps his entire collection of animals. If we want to choose from a couple he brings a couple. We then can choose from the ones he brings to see us. Its never a wasted trip because he knows when we ask him to bring us something we taking something home. If nothing else we always get at least feeders from him. We would never ask to go where he keeps his animals either, its just courtacy(sp?) IMO. I think its very nice that some breeders do allow you to come to their shop/home/warehouse/ exc but shouldnt be expected.

I feel your pain man. But on the other hand, if I were a big breeder I wouldn't let anyone in my facility for all of the above reasons either. That said, I was having a hard time scheduling a tour of a large Northeast Facility so I just got in my car and drove there.

Once the folks met me they dropped everything and gave me a private tour. I'll bet they just love it when people like me show up on their door step. I really didn't expect the red carpet treatment and I can't thank the owners enough for taking the time to show me around. It was so nice to see every snake in the place and make my choice accordingly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

I met someone in a parking lot to buy some BP's once...and I couldn't help but feel like the cops were going to pull up thinking we were dealing drugs. What type of public places work best??

JonV

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LOL, we always think that!!!!

We have used Publix, hardware store, billiard hall (Waiting time makes it nicer) anywhere really... if someone stops you (which has never happened) he already has his receipt book out that helps it look a bit more ligit then just a snake/money handoff. It helps im the DIL of a SGT and hes great friends with most of the Davie Cops, many of which who are his customers lol

I agree with Heather on all of her points. Some breeders have well over $100,000 in snakes and you have to respect their concern. The best thing to do is get to know the local breeders you've talked about, do some research find someone you trust and build a rapport with them.

When you get a cold call most people are not going to let your in there facility but get to know someone, earn their trust, even spend a couple of dollars with them and you will be taken alot more seriously and then I am sure they would let you come and see for yourself. I know of someone local to me that had a guy come over to buy a normal, the guy shows him the snake room let him get to know the place and within days he was cleaned out.

What you are experiencing is standard procedure.
Hope this helps.

Also we had a case in the Pittsburgh area where a house was burnt down with over 30,000 dollars in snakes. It is suspected arson by someone who knew the guy had the snakes. If that doesn't give someone pause to allowing strangers to their house to view their collection I don't know what will!

With theft being the biggest thing I think that some breeders dont want the whole world to know what they are doing. I mean not all breeders like to post pics of every clutch or tell everyone all their projects and so on. Alot of people cant keep their mouth shut and it really is nobodys buisness but theirs and if they dont want to share it with the world thats their choice.

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

Well, you can do the parking lots, or even just an outdoor park or something.. Somewhere where you can sit down and discuss.

I've done... Walmart Parking lots, Furniture Store Parking Lots, Lollicup :D, a local park, an In-N-Out, and a couple more I'm sure I'm forgetting.

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I LOVE IN-N-OUT but I never get it because i live a couple thousand miles away.

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Originally Posted by AndrewGeibel

I LOVE IN-N-OUT but I never get it because i live a couple thousand miles away.

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Tell you what. If you want a snake from me, we can totally meet at one ;)

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

And I bring the burly guy with me too..

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Pfft! They wouldn't hurt a fly...("eek! there's a bug in my shirt!")

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

Tell you what. If you want a snake from me, we can totally meet at one ;)

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So accommodating! :D

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Originally Posted by cassandra

Pfft! They wouldn't hurt a fly...("eek! there's a bug in my shirt!")

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That guy is totally not burly... He's just the Rice guy... How intimidating is that???

The Burly guy is MY burly guy who wouldn't hurt a fly.

SHHHHH... You're ruining his reputation already.

I'm with Heather nobodys goes to the house or business if I had one. Meet somewhere thats cool.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

Picture this...

Stranger comes into your facility, cases the place, comes back, steals ALL THE ANIMALS.


There you go. That is why.


Trusting people is hard. Shipping is easier.

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hey what are you trying to say Heather? lol. U have some nice animals though still hate you for that albino lol.

Well, I don't have a facility. I have a couple of rooms in the basement of my HOME. I'm not the only person living there, my wife and sons live there too and it's also their home. They have the right not to be intruded upon by strangers buying snakes.

Basically the only way you're going to be invited into my home to buy or even look at snakes is if you're a member of my family or a close enough friend to be on my Christmas card list.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

When I have someone local that is interested in a snake, I meet them in a designated public location with ALL the animals I can offer.

It works, and its safer.

And I bring the burly guy with me too..

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If McDonalds knew how many snakes I've sold in their parking lots, they'd probably demand royalties. :D:D:D

I have a friend of mine who actually had a news crew show up on his front lawn wanting to interview him as the president of the venomous snake society and wanted to see all the venomous snakes he was keeping in his home. He had been turned in to a news station by a 'friend' he'd had a falling out with. Needless to say He doesn't invite ANYBODY over to see his collection anymore.

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Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

hey what are you trying to say Heather? lol. U have some nice animals though still hate you for that albino lol.

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Hey man... You were there. You know you are in the circle of trust now... Don't break the circle.. DON'T BREAK IT!! ;)

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

Hey man... You were there. You know you are in the circle of trust now... Don't break the circle.. DON'T BREAK IT!! ;)

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dont worry I will invite yo u guys over when I get my breeding room done. Most likely you and Raul are gonna help me fill it with morphs.

CIRCLE OF TRUST

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...s/love0059.gif

can I be the green one other colors dont fit my personality. lol. And dont worry about that circle its made outta adimantium (sp) cant be broken.

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Originally Posted by sg1trogdor

can I be the green one other colors dont fit my personality. lol. And dont worry about that circle its made outta adimantium (sp) cant be broken.

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Absolutely :) I'll call you Green Guy ;)

I think breeders that do not allow visitors is a sign of a sketchy breeder. If they dont care enough about their business to make their business secure, then I dont particularly want to buy from them. You dont see a small business owner that doesnt allow customers in w/o a blindfold and a background check because they may or may not be casing the joint. I think an upfront, honest breeder that has no problem showing a potential buyer the breeding stock of a particular morph they are interested in, as well as the actual speciman they are inquiring about is the way to go. With that said, I think it should be within reason. For instance, if someone is calling wanting to look at a pastel bp, then I think the breeder should allow the buyer to come into the facility and see the parents, grandparents if available, as well as the snake inquired about. However, a practice that may help the breeder out, while still allowing the buyer to come by, would be to have a "visiting" room set up so that the buyer doesnt walk through the entire complex.

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Originally Posted by ThyTempest

I think breeders that do not allow visitors is a sign of a sketchy breeder. If they dont care enough about their business to make their business secure, then I dont particularly want to buy from them. You dont see a small business owner that doesnt allow customers in w/o a blindfold and a background check because they may or may not be casing the joint. I think an upfront, honest breeder that has no problem showing a potential buyer the breeding stock of a particular morph they are interested in, as well as the actual speciman they are inquiring about is the way to go. With that said, I think it should be within reason. For instance, if someone is calling wanting to look at a pastel bp, then I think the breeder should allow the buyer to come into the facility and see the parents, grandparents if available, as well as the snake inquired about. However, a practice that may help the breeder out, while still allowing the buyer to come by, would be to have a "visiting" room set up so that the buyer doesnt walk through the entire complex.

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Did you even read the thread? :confused: