The REAL reason for dropping prices?

Why are people selling 08s so cheap? I just saw fires for 700. Do people start selling at lower prices because 07s are older and larger so they feel they must drop their prices for 08s? A lot of 07s being sold are pretty small, around 400 grams. I just saw an ad for an 07 that was said "over 350 grams!" with an exclamation point like that was a big deal. Are you kidding me? Give me 4 or 5 months with a baby and he'll be 400 grams. I'd rather pay 700 for a baby morph than 1200 for a year old that isn't even that big.

I understand that prices will drop. But why are breeders selling morphs for so cheap at the very beginning of the season? They have plenty of time to sell them, why rush? There is no one else selling the morphs for cheaper. They are the first ones!!! I don't see a lot of 08s for sale as of yet. No one is low balling them so why are they starting the season off at such a dramatic price difference?

That's a free market for ya.

this may be the first clutch of some relatively new breeders and they are tryin to make a quick buk????? i dunno jus an opinion

I actually like it.:)
Gives me a chance to acquire animals I couldn't a year ago.
Even selling for lower prices, you still make good money.
Even with pastels, you get 5 of them and they are all males, sell them for $100 each, and you still made a nice return.
Lower prices means more people can afford the animals.
Heck, maybe one day I'll be able to afford a crystal. :D

Some possible reasons I see.

A lot of relatively new breeders realize they can not ask what the big guys are as they have no reputation as a seller at this time and when given a choice between a nobody in the industry and a big name I think most people will go with the big name all other factors being the same. Also once the larger breeders have their 08's out a lot of people will buy from them without even looking around.

Also I think the current economy is hitting a lot of small breeders hard. They need to get some cash moving to pay bills, be it general house hold bills or the credit bills it took to get them moving. Additionally if the economy gets tighter or is already tight enough more people will start cutting luxuries out of their spending, and ball python morphs are not high on the list of things needed to live. Breeders could be looking at capitalizing while and if they can.

Additionally some people are looking at the pricing from reptile expos early this year and think those prices actually reflect the market as a whole. We will have to see if that is true or not, but by low balling early they could end up creating a trend.

Supply, demand, and a very sloooow economy.

JonV

I have talked with a breeder with low prices and I was told it had to do with the shows. He said people can go out to a show and purchase the same morph much cheaper and not have to pay shipping. It doesn't bother me one bit what I could have gotten in the fall for $2500 I just bought for $900.
It also has a lot to do with the economy. This will probably be my last purchase for a while. Gas prices are hitting me hard.
Trey

Ah, shows. I haven't been to any yet this year. That makes sense.

yea id go to shows but when i have to drive 79 miles each way and my car only take premium gas.... i have to sit them out :(

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Originally Posted by SPJ

I actually like it.:)
Gives me a chance to acquire animals I couldn't a year ago.
Even selling for lower prices, you still make good money.
Even with pastels, you get 5 of them and they are all males, sell them for $100 each, and you still made a nice return.
Lower prices means more people can afford the animals.
Heck, maybe one day I'll be able to afford a crystal. :D

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Yup, I think this new market can be a good thing.

Think of it in a pyramid style fashion. Only a few at the top can afford the big ticket items.

As you go down in the pyramid, the number of people that can afford certain animals only grows. While you wont see an immediate return like you would if the animals cost more, you DO have more and more people able to afford those animals, and you'll sell out quicker than before.

I don't know about you but I never complain when I can get the same quality product for a cheaper price. :banana:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SPJ

Even selling for lower prices, you still make good money.
Even with pastels, you get 5 of them and they are all males, sell them for $100 each, and you still made a nice return.

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Unless you paid $1000 for your first Pastel male.

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Unless you paid $1000 for your first Pastel male.

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But even then, that pastel male should be able to sire 20+ eggs in his first breeding season, half of which are pastels. Theoretically, in your first year you could make all your money back and still have the snake for many more years.

I think it's weird that people are dissapointed they may not make their money back in their very first year. I can't think of a single business where the owner expects to turn a profit his/her first year.

JonV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

Supply, demand, and a very sloooow economy.

JonV

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that paired with people who want to breed sooner will purchase bigger/older females therefore the cost of babies are cheaper then adults. I know thats why my breeder sells his babies cheaper then adults. It just makes alot more sense too. Also, Connie had some great points in her response. If ultimately (meaning by the time the snakes are old) i make my money back that ive invested (not talking feeders and maint) but their base cost ill be more then thrilled. Not to mention I love having them around!! Im just in awe when I see my morph snakes and know there was a point i didnt think i could ever validate paying that for a pet. My head spins everytime I think about what we have invested... in snakes! and our collection isnt even all that big yet. I cant wait to breed them either.. talk about a whole new exciting milestone

How viable is it for someone new to the Ball Python industry to sell offspring at a pace to sustain the hobby? I had corn snakes many years ago when I was a little kid. Many years later with a wife and child on the way I am thinking about getting back into this hobby?

Any advice for someone who wants to start out slowww with Ball Pythons but also wants it to be a hobby that pays for itself, no more or less?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by muddoc

Unless you paid $1000 for your first Pastel male.

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Close. I paid $750 plus shipping.

I also paid a LOT more for my first spider and albino than what they are going for now.

Even so, no matter what you paid back a few years ago, you will make back the money put into purchasing them.

I think prices should be based on looks and I think thats where the industry will be headed... A lot is supply and demand right now but down the road(hopefully sooner than later) youll have the hyundais and the lexus's of snakes... The not so nice pastels will sell for 100$ but the really bright ones that keep their color should be priced higher... Theyll all breed for you, just like a car with get you from A to B, but theres a reason a lexus is double if not tripple a hyundai.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DLawIII

How viable is it for someone new to the Ball Python industry to sell offspring at a pace to sustain the hobby? I had corn snakes many years ago when I was a little kid. Many years later with a wife and child on the way I am thinking about getting back into this hobby?

Any advice for someone who wants to start out slowww with Ball Pythons but also wants it to be a hobby that pays for itself, no more or less?

---

If all you are looking for is a hobby that sustains itself, then a couple pastel/normal females combined with a male spider, for example, should be able to do it. It's a lot of work though, cleaning cages and chasing down rats. So don't do it if you don't absolutely love it, or you'll be dissapointed.

Think of it as a hobby that's cheaper than gambling. But not by much.

JonV

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Originally Posted by AshleyB

that paired with people who want to breed sooner will purchase bigger/older females therefore the cost of babies are cheaper then adults.

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Good point! I am finding something kind of unexpected about this, though.

All the babies I have had since near hatchling from other breeders are doing absolutely great, pounding rats like there's no tomorrow.

The larger/older snakes that I have picked up are largely a pain in my bum. They just don't seem to acclimate like the ones I've had longer. It would probably be easier if I fed live, however.

I'm going with an '08 pied male rather than '07 for this reason.

JonV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

But even then, that pastel male should be able to sire 20+ eggs in his first breeding season, half of which are pastels. Theoretically, in your first year you could make all your money back and still have the snake for many more years.

I think it's weird that people are dissapointed they may not make their money back in their very first year. I can't think of a single business where the owner expects to turn a profit his/her first year.

JonV

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SPJ

I also paid a LOT more for my first spider and albino than what they are going for now.

Even so, no matter what you paid back a few years ago, you will make back the money put into purchasing them.

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I guess I should have made myself a bit more clear. I too have spent much more on ball pythons than they are worth today (i.e. $20,000 for our first Pin male). However, I am not crying about it, nor do I think that I am losing money on any project that I have bought into. In fact, the first year that my Pastel bred, he bred 4 females. None of those females took or produced eggs. Yet, I still know that he will breed for years to come. The same happened with my Pin male. He decided not to breed until he was 20 months old. I have not made my money back from that purchase, however, he has more offspring coming this year, and I would bet money that he is still producing in 5+ years.

What I didn't convey in my first post is that it gets aggravating to think that you pay a guy $1000 for an animal to find that the guy you bought from drops his price faster than the market calls for. Then next year, when you produce some of said morph, you can't sell them because your original supplier is under cutting you. With all of that said, all I am saying is do your best to support the guys that help to stabilize the market, as they will be helping you in the long run. Sometimes it may cost you a bit more, but I guarantee you will appreciate it in the future.

I take no offense at anything that was posted, but rest assured that I have been around long enough to have watched the drastic changes in the market, and never expect to make my money back in the first year. All I have ever expected out of an investment in a project is to make my money back over the LIFE of the project, which is a very attainable goal with the Ball Python Market, even in this day and age.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by muddoc

What I didn't convey in my first e-mail is that it gets aggravating to think that you pay a guy $1000 for an animal to find that the guy you bought from drops his price faster than the market calls for. Then next year, when you produce some of said morph, you can't sell them because your original supplier is under cutting you. With all of that said, all I am saying is do your best to support the guys that help to stabilize the market, as they will be helping you in the long run. Sometimes it may cost you a bit more, but I guarantee you will appreciate it in the future.

I take no offense at anything that was posted, but rest assured that I have been around long enough to have watched the drastic changes in the market, and never expect to make my money back in the first year. All I have ever expected out of an investment in a project is to make my money back over the LIFE of the project, which is a very attainable goal with the Ball Python Market, even in this day and age.

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Tim, I hope I didn't come off as cynical in my response. I apologize if that's the way it sounded. I have trouble crafting warm sounding text.

Just imagine how much the value of a new sports car drops the second you drive it off the lot! That's gotta make you feel better about snakes depreciating, right!? :)

JonV

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Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

Tim, I hope I didn't come off as cynical in my response. I apologize if that's the way it sounded. I have trouble crafting warm sounding text.

Just imagine how much the value of a new sports car drops the second you drive it off the lot! That's gotta make you feel better about snakes depreciating, right!? :)

JonV

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No cynicism detected at all. I just wanted to make sure that I clarified my BRIEF statement in my original post. Believe me, I have always been a big proponent of the Ball Python being a great investment, if you look at it in the right light.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by muddoc

No cynicism detected at all. I just wanted to make sure that I clarified my BRIEF statement in my original post. Believe me, I have always been a big proponent of the Ball Python being a great investment, if you look at it in the right light.

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Right on. They decrease in per-snake value, but increase in per-snake enjoyment the more you have them!

JonV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

Good point! I am finding something kind of unexpected about this, though.

All the babies I have had since near hatchling from other breeders are doing absolutely great, pounding rats like there's no tomorrow.

The larger/older snakes that I have picked up are largely a pain in my bum. They just don't seem to acclimate like the ones I've had longer. It would probably be easier if I fed live, however.

I'm going with an '08 pied male rather than '07 for this reason.

JonV

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Maybe they're letting the older/larger snakes go for a reason? Spotty feeders, worn out or just plain poor breeders/producers.

I've dealt with the same thing. Bought two bigger girls thinking it would be nice to have some breeding action going on sooner than later, but they are VERY spotty with feeding, and aren't the most friendly things. And although they've been locking with my males since October, have had noticed some follicular development, but wouldn't suprise me if they didn't go.

So really, these types of larger girls aren't contributing to lowering prices, but the opposite. Low supply of eggs means I'm holding on to them all when/if they lay, and hatch!.:8:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jknudson

Maybe they're letting the older/larger snakes go for a reason? Spotty feeders, worn out or just plain poor breeders/producers.

I've dealt with the same thing. Bought two bigger girls thinking it would be nice to have some breeding action going on sooner than later, but they are VERY spotty with feeding, and aren't the most friendly things. And although they've been locking with my males since October, have had noticed some follicular development, but wouldn't suprise me if they didn't go.

So really, these types of larger girls aren't contributing to lowering prices, but the opposite. Low supply of eggs means I'm holding on to them all when/if they lay, and hatch!.:8:

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There's an old saying that was going around years and years ago.

Whether you raise babies up to breed or get adult females from someone else, plan on at least two years before you see reproduction.

It seems to hold true more often than not, though I couldn't tell you why.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

I think prices should be based on looks and I think thats where the industry will be headed... A lot is supply and demand right now but down the road(hopefully sooner than later) youll have the hyundais and the lexus's of snakes... The not so nice pastels will sell for 100$ but the really bright ones that keep their color should be priced higher... Theyll all breed for you, just like a car with get you from A to B, but theres a reason a lexus is double if not tripple a hyundai.

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I like the sound of that....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by muddoc

I guess I should have made myself a bit more clear. I too have spent much more on ball pythons than they are worth today (i.e. $20,000 for our first Pin male). However, I am not crying about it, nor do I think that I am losing money on any project that I have bought into. In fact, the first year that my Pastel bred, he bred 4 females. None of those females took or produced eggs. Yet, I still know that he will breed for years to come. The same happened with my Pin male. He decided not to breed until he was 20 months old. I have not made my money back from that purchase, however, he has more offspring coming this year, and I would bet money that he is still producing in 5+ years.

What I didn't convey in my first post is that it gets aggravating to think that you pay a guy $1000 for an animal to find that the guy you bought from drops his price faster than the market calls for. Then next year, when you produce some of said morph, you can't sell them because your original supplier is under cutting you. With all of that said, all I am saying is do your best to support the guys that help to stabilize the market, as they will be helping you in the long run. Sometimes it may cost you a bit more, but I guarantee you will appreciate it in the future.

I take no offense at anything that was posted, but rest assured that I have been around long enough to have watched the drastic changes in the market, and never expect to make my money back in the first year. All I have ever expected out of an investment in a project is to make my money back over the LIFE of the project, which is a very attainable goal with the Ball Python Market, even in this day and age.

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I must spread some reputation around before giving it back to you... but well put man!

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Originally Posted by yeahyeah

Why are people selling 08s so cheap? I just saw fires for 700.

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Well, mainly because all the $12k fire males from 2006 are now breeding and throwing 50% fire offspring. The morph market, and co-dominant traits specifically, adhere to an inverted bell curve, with high prices on the initial stock, bottoming out after 2 years or so, and then sky-rocketing again when the morph begins appearing in double- and triple-combo morphs.

i believe that breeding animals should always be a hobby, a project on the side to POSSIBLY make some money off of. it should never be your main income. animals will breed when and IF they want to, you can never force them. if i have learned one thing from breeding, this is it. never, ever depend on your animals to breed. even if your females lay eggs, there is no guarantee that they will hatch, and if they do hatch, there is no guarantee that they will be healthy and live long lives, with proper care, most will live to adulthood, but this is not always the case. accidents happen, incubators break, something goes wrong with humidity, or whatever it may be that causes eggs not to hatch.

also when you think about breeding, you must think about your babies' futures. you cannot ethically just sell to any idiot who throws the cash at you. you have to think about the well-being of the baby after it goes home. YOU have to find suitable, knowledgeable homes for them to go to, because you bred them you are responsible for their welfare. the least important thing about breeding is the money, the most important thing is whether or not you can find good homes for the babies to go to. no good breeder wants to see one of their babies end up being abused or dumped off at a shelter, or set free when they get bored of them. be there after the purchase when the new owners have questions. you will earn yourself a VERY good rep just by being there to help throughout the snake's lifetime.

breed because you LOVE the snakes and to improve the bloodlines :) strive to product the strongest, healthiest animals that you can possibly produce. i bought from a small private breeder and couldnt be happier with my purchase, they are beautiful, very healthy animals that have given me NO problems. id rather support a small, ethical, GOOD breeder than one of the big breeders, the smaller ones give you the best customer service and have time to spend handling and observing each and every one of their animals :) their breeders are their beloved pets, not just breeders to pump out babies and make them some money. (not saying that some of the bigger breeders dont do this, just that when you breed on a smaller scale, obviously you have more time for each individual animal).

My original post wasn't just about dropping prices. I just didn't understand why the first people to start selling 08s were selling them for so cheap. I assumed they were the first people selling 08s because I hadn't seen too many in the classifieds. It almost seemed to me like they were selling them cheaper just because they expected the price to go down. Apparently there are many other people selling 08s at shows and the prices reflect the market.

I got an email earlier today saying 08 Pastel Pairs - $150....thats extremely low

dont want to side track the post but earlier I read the first fire male was 12k in 06... does that mean its impossible someone has an 06 female fire for sale?

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Originally Posted by ShawnT

I got an email earlier today saying 08 Pastel Pairs - $150....thats extremely low

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Yeah that is...

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Originally Posted by ShawnT

I got an email earlier today saying 08 Pastel Pairs - $150....thats extremely low

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Wonder what they look like..... :weirdface

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Well, mainly because all the $12k fire males from 2006 are now breeding and throwing 50% fire offspring. The morph market, and co-dominant traits specifically, adhere to an inverted bell curve, with high prices on the initial stock, bottoming out after 2 years or so, and then sky-rocketing again when the morph begins appearing in double- and triple-combo morphs.

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Very, very interesting. I've thought about trying to compile some data of the various morph types..recessives, doms, co doms and trying to fit some curves in order to see if there is a correlation. It would take a lot of data though.

And if one could get those curves, you could maybe put together an optimized snake portfolio, with investments hedged between short term (co-dom/dom) and long term (recessive/double recessive) investments.

JonV

well i for one do not mind it at all, cheaper snakes= more snakes i can afford, more snakes= one happy herp ;]

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Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

Very, very interesting. I've thought about trying to compile some data of the various morph types..recessives, doms, co doms and trying to fit some curves in order to see if there is a correlation. It would take a lot of data though.

And if one could get those curves, you could maybe put together an optimized snake portfolio, with investments hedged between short term (co-dom/dom) and long term (recessive/double recessive) investments.

JonV

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The ball market is so volatile and unpredictable I don't think it's possible. For all we know, ball pythons could be banned in the future.:mad:

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

dont want to side track the post but earlier I read the first fire male was 12k in 06... does that mean its impossible someone has an 06 female fire for sale?

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Ive read that there are alot of fake/unproved fire lines going around.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yeahyeah

The ball market is so volatile and unpredictable I don't think it's possible. For all we know, ball pythons could be banned in the future.:mad:

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Hmm.....good point. But there are people who do similar things with the stock market...and they are sitting on a beach, having a drink with a little umbrella, probably reading this post on Wi-Fi.

Legislative risk is hard to account for. Basically, anything could be banned tomorrow.

We need to increase reptile awareness on every front to avoid this. Have people over to see your reptiles, educate as much as you can. The more people know about them, the more the phobia for them subsides, the less politicians will be able to justify banning them as a good days work.

JonV

I always worry about those real low prices.
Anyone who has been doing this for a while can tell you about those deals, many times they dont pan out well or they are mutts that most people wouldn't want. I have personally seen and had my own bad experiences with the cheapo price from whats his name breeders.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

Ive read that there are alot of fake/unproved fire lines going around.

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The fires that are $700 are from Amirs Flame Hypo line

Its very interesting that a couple of years ago, you'd read a lot of forum posts expressing how great of an investment ball morphs were. Suddenly a lot of the same people changed their tun and leaned more towards "its a great hobby that you can break even with."

I believe that there are a few factors for the price drops:

- Increased supply. Obviously.
- Less demand. Not many people are entering the market anymore. Also, not many people are willing to incur large weekly feeder bills or invest a lot of money into caging.
- No market unity. Too many back door deals and price slashing, no one has any confidence in the market anymore and aren't willing to invest large sums of money out of fear of losing their "investment."

Just my .02....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Its very interesting that a couple of years ago, you'd read a lot of forum posts expressing how great of an investment ball morphs were. Suddenly a lot of the same people changed their tun and leaned more towards "its a great hobby that you can break even with."

I believe that there are a few factors for the price drops:

- Increased supply. Obviously.
- Less demand. Not many people are entering the market anymore. Also, not many people are willing to incur large weekly feeder bills or invest a lot of money into caging.
- No market unity. Too many back door deals and price slashing, no one has any confidence in the market anymore and aren't willing to invest large sums of money out of fear of losing their "investment."

Just my .02....

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Wasn't a lot of the initial excitement spurred by high price tags of a few morphs in particular? "Oh my gosh, Joe just sold an albino for $20,000!". It sort of reminds me when the real estate boom and flipping houses took off...everybody wanted a piece of the action until they realized it was hard work and not worth as much money as they saw on TV.

I think one thing that helps control supply is that ball's have relatively small clutches compared with some animals (40 bearded dragons at a time, for example), and they can be a little picky when it comes to breeding.

I feel like demand is just going up and up, but maybe I'm missing something here. A breeder from of mine produced about 1000 eggs last year, and says he hopes to get that number to 5000 in the next couple years.

Is there there such a thing as a back door deal? If a market is "free" then producers can sell at whatever price they want.

JonV

If demand was going up and up as you say, and the supply was still limited as a result of them laying small clutches and being picky breeders, Economics 101 tells you that the prices would absolutely not decrease.

There absolutely is such a thing as a back door deal. When advertised prices are always 50-100% higher than what they are actually selling for, speculation starts to become a huge factor in what happens to the price. All of those back door deals got around and everyone began to think, "well, if I just wait a year, I can buy it for half." With everyone thinking that and no one buying, its almost a self-fulfilling prophecy because that causes the demand to decrease, with the prices following right behind it.

Think about it, why should I buy a pied now for 2500 when I can wait 2 years or so when they are at or under 1000? Those kinds of statements get into everyone's heads and that kind of speculation truly does affect the market.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

Think about it, why should I buy a pied now for 2500 when I can wait 2 years or so when they are at or under 1000? Those kinds of statements get into everyone's heads and that kind of speculation truly does affect the market.

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This is fine if you want to wait 2 years on a male but when you want a visual female than its worth it to buy it early.

Another thought I didnt see come out... How many people are in the 3-5k club and are willing to pay that cash for a snake?? I'm guessing there are way more 3-5k snakes for sale than customers willing to pay that. Clowns are a good example... start of 07 they were 4500-5000$... end of the year theyre down to 3250 or so. I think many breeders who were trying to sell these snakes said to themselves "aw man these have been on KS for 3 months and I cant get anyone to bite... ill drop my price"... this continues for a whole season and we know where it ends. This problem isnt only in the 3-5k range its the whole market.

To add a little spice ...theres about to be quite a few 2-3 combo morphs hitting the market this year because more people are breeding... A morph may be "rare" in terms of supply but theres going to be more competition between breeders to get someone to buy your 3k albino spider instead of the killer bee or something...This competition is only going to get worse with more new breeders every year hence my beliefs the market will be based on quality looks and not supply and demand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Another thought I didnt see come out... How many people are in the 3-5k club and are willing to pay that cash for a snake?? I'm guessing there are way more 3-5k snakes for sale than customers willing to pay that. Clowns are a good example... start of 07 they were 4500-5000$... end of the year theyre down to 3250 or so. I think many breeders who were trying to sell these snakes said to themselves "aw man these have been on KS for 3 months and I cant get anyone to bite... ill drop my price"... this continues for a whole season and we know where it ends. This problem isnt only in the 3-5k range its the whole market.

To add a little spice ...theres about to be quite a few 2-3 combo morphs hitting the market this year because more people are breeding... A morph may be "rare" in terms of supply but theres going to be more competition between breeders to get someone to buy your 3k albino spider instead of the killer bee or something...This competition is only going to get worse with more new breeders every year hence my beliefs the market will be based on quality looks and not supply and demand.

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I have 6 normals in my collection and wont add any more, they will all be visual females if not double morphs. I dont plan on producing a lot of snake but the one I do produce will likely have 1,2, or 3 genes in them.

I like when threads like this are brought up! Usually by guys with 15 animals..:oops: Let the market do what it wants. I sell animals at a price I like, weather its FREE! or someone pays me what I'm asking. I could careless if albinos are at $50. I'll still produce them, Make some money and Still work My ash off at my day job. Imagine; an albino ball for $50.. everyone would buy atleast one..

Thats alot of $.. If thats what your in it for...:(

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Imagine; an albino ball for $50.. everyone would buy atleast one..

(

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I know I sure would :D Maybe two;)
The morph I want costs as much as a small car - so chances of me ever getting one are slim to none. Well unless I hit those lucky numbers in the lottery!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Another thought I didnt see come out... How many people are in the 3-5k club and are willing to pay that cash for a snake?? I'm guessing there are way more 3-5k snakes for sale than customers willing to pay that. Clowns are a good example... start of 07 they were 4500-5000$... end of the year theyre down to 3250 or so. I think many breeders who were trying to sell these snakes said to themselves "aw man these have been on KS for 3 months and I cant get anyone to bite... ill drop my price"... this continues for a whole season and we know where it ends. This problem isnt only in the 3-5k range its the whole market.

To add a little spice ...theres about to be quite a few 2-3 combo morphs hitting the market this year because more people are breeding... A morph may be "rare" in terms of supply but theres going to be more competition between breeders to get someone to buy your 3k albino spider instead of the killer bee or something...This competition is only going to get worse with more new breeders every year hence my beliefs the market will be based on quality looks and not supply and demand.

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Jumping in on the front end of a new morph is one thing and buying after they are plentiful is a different thing. A person may opt to buy a new morph when it is first available as a financial investment or just for the excitement of being connected with the new morph. Prices should be expected to gradually come down as a morph becomes more available. The real front end I feel sure is much higher than the 3k-5k club. How quickly the price actually does decrease is probably pretty much in the hands of the 3k-5k club I would suspect though.

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Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

Hmm.....good point. But there are people who do similar things with the stock market...and they are sitting on a beach, having a drink with a little umbrella, probably reading this post on Wi-Fi.

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Yeah but over time the prices of stocks tend to increase where as ball pythons tend to decrease. A stock could decrease too, but in the long run the market tends to increase.