bill to allow feds to cap gas prices at 2.49!!!!!!

http://www.wicz.com/news2005/viewarticle.asp?a=6394

I don't believe it will happen.

As much as I want this to happen I agree with Nate. I don't think this "bill" will ever get off the ground. Even if it does the only way it is going to pass is if the fed. gov. makes up the difference to the oil companies. IMHO

i would LOVE to see that happen, however i think its very unlikely to occur :colbert:

They would never agree to cap it, even at 4.49

The thought of this scares me to death. I don't like gas prices at all and driving almost 100 miles a day doesn't do me any good when it comes to them, but do we really want the federal government "regulating" something as important as our gas?

Sure they might cap it at 2.49 now, but what about 3 months after the bill is passed and they suddenly need some more revenue for some pork project they've got going?

When the government gets their hands on stuff only one thing consistently happens. Actually 2, it breaks and it becomes a cash cow for them via taxes. Sorry, not on board with this one.

One thing I have heard is that oil companies have reduced there profit margin but they are still making money. It is not the oil companies we need to go after but the suppliers. I heard a number they use to make 10% and they only make about 4% now but they are selling more.
Trey

Let's take a step back in time ohhhhh say 20 years or so.

Let's say, and I'm not saying these numbers are accurate, there are 20 million cars on the road.

The population is due to double. That means 40 million cars on the road in what would be today.

20 years ago the oil companies had, and again I'm just pulling a number out of thin air, 200 refineries.

These are not stupid people. They knew then as they know now, that America will drive wherever it needs to because we are a society that is soooooo spread out for work and school and family, that we have no other viable choices.

Remember, the oil companies, the guys raising the price of crude oil, are the same guys who own the refineries that make the crude into gas.

How many refineries have been built in the last 20 years? Any at all? How many have been shut down? 10%? 20%? I do know we have fewer refineries now than we did 20 years ago.

And have you ever noticed that they are shut down for maintanence and updating during the summer and other holidays when people do the most driving?

There is also this nifty thing called feduciary responsibility. What that means is a company that is publicly owned, that has private people owning shares of it, has a responsibility to those share holders to increase profits every year. I wonder who the major share holders are in the oil companies that have not built any refineries in the last 20 years. I wonder who got the feduciary responsibility clause made into a law?

None of this is news. None of this was unexpected. None of this was UNPLANNED.

All the big oil companies know that in the next 20 to 40 years we WILL have alternative sources of fuel. They KNOW that the money train has an end and they can smell it.

So, they are basically screwing the American public EVERY SINGLE TIME IT PUTS GAS IN A CAR for profit.

Even if they put a cap on gas at whatever price, whose taxes will be making up the difference? Not the guys who own those oil companies and refineries. They have corporate write offs and pay less taxes than most of you reading this. Even though they may make hundreds to times your yearly income. OK, that may be a slight exaggeration, but SLIGHT is the key word. They still pay almost NOTHING in taxes compared to what an average 40 hour a week working stiff does.

Lube it up folks, it's not going to end anytime soon.

It doesn't help that with India and China industrializing, oil demand is skyrocketing.

I don't think that bill has a snowball's chance in _____ of passing.

By placing a ceiling on any market price you are hindering growth and evolution of the market. It may be stressful but will force new technology and new ideas into the way we travel and use oil. Putting a cap on the market is just going to delay the inevitable. Save your money, tighten the belt, ride it through.

It's always entertaining when people (especially our representatives) think that federal meddling in the market will help fix problems brought on by federal meddling in the market. It's even worse when they're so short-sighted to think you can fix a market problem by simply toying with the price, and not dealing directly with either the supply or demand for the product.

It appears that this guy is merely proposing a temporary cap on gas prices. I feel sure that the main purpose is to make himself popular with his constituents. He can bring up the bill that he proposed,sponsored or introduced when campaigning for re election.

The government needs to go after the futures traders instead of the oil companies.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Let's take a step back in time ohhhhh say 20 years or so.

Let's say, and I'm not saying these numbers are accurate, there are 20 million cars on the road.

The population is due to double. That means 40 million cars on the road in what would be today.

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Keep in mind that cars, and especially cars in the US make up a minority of world demand for oil. That sticker "made in China" is the cause of a lot of our oil woes.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Remember, the oil companies, the guys raising the price of crude oil, are the same guys who own the refineries that make the crude into gas.

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The US oil companies control a whopping 6% of the world oil supply. Once again, thank China, India, Brazil, etc...for the increasing price of crude.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

There is also this nifty thing called feduciary responsibility. What that means is a company that is publicly owned, that has private people owning shares of it, has a responsibility to those share holders to increase profits every year. I wonder who the major share holders are in the oil companies that have not built any refineries in the last 20 years. I wonder who got the feduciary responsibility clause made into a law?

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Virtually every mutual fund and 401K has stock in oil compaines.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

So, they are basically screwing the American public EVERY SINGLE TIME IT PUTS GAS IN A CAR for profit.

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This is misguided. We are "screwing" ourselves buy buying so much crap (and all our crap comes from oil, ladies and gentlemen). Blame the oil companies all you want. Do you have any idea what would happen if one of them just decided to go out of business? Shut all those refineries down, cease their importing...gas would skyrocket overnight.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Even if they put a cap on gas at whatever price, whose taxes will be making up the difference? Not the guys who own those oil companies and refineries. They have corporate write offs and pay less taxes than most of you reading this. Even though they may make hundreds to times your yearly income. OK, that may be a slight exaggeration, but SLIGHT is the key word. They still pay almost NOTHING in taxes compared to what an average 40 hour a week working stiff does.

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True, but this is largely because wealthy people have their money invested and are paid dividends off those investments. Dividends are taxed at a much lower rate than wages.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Lube it up folks, it's not going to end anytime soon.

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That's true.

JonV

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Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

It's always entertaining when people (especially our representatives) think that federal meddling in the market will help fix problems brought on by federal meddling in the market. It's even worse when they're so short-sighted to think you can fix a market problem by simply toying with the price, and not dealing directly with either the supply or demand for the product.

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True!

JonV

The current prices have nothing to do with current supply and demand, though. The prices are high from future supply and demand that is assumed.

that bill will never pass

Agreed

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Originally Posted by wilomn

How many refineries have been built in the last 20 years? Any at all? How many have been shut down? 10%? 20%? I do know we have fewer refineries now than we did 20 years ago.

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Again, I'm not going to say these oil companies are squeaky clean, but the reason we haven't built any refineries is the same reason we have been unable to drill, and the same reason we're paying what we're paying right now- because of the environmental left.

We did talk about this in an earlier post, but you're right, the oil companies are making the same profit margin as before (and much less than a LOT of other industries). It's just big numbers at work.

The real problem is this- the oil company makes 7-8 cents per dollar of sales. The federal government takes 18 cents out of that same dollar. State government takes 30-45 cents out of that same dollar. So who are the greedy jerks? New Yorkers are paying $4.14 a gallon (average) right now... over 60 cents goes to tax! Yes, the oil company you bought it from takes 7 or 8 cents. First of all, when is it a crime to make a profit in America?? They also put all the money and effort into drilling and refining the crude, and transporting the product. What does the government do to earn their 60 cents?? NOTHING, except call up the oil execs before Congress and grandstand. The 'record profits' were also accompanied by 'record taxes' and 'record sales'. Exxon by itself paid over $30 billion in tax for 2007!!! That's more than the bottom half of America combined, and the most tax any one corporation has ever paid in history!

I do agree that this bill is just a bit of fluff to make some politician look good. It will never pass. One thing we CAN do is call our Congressmen and Senators and demand that they allow drilling (especially in places that were SET ASIDE FOR DRILLING). Even if 100% of what is produced doesn't get sold here, it will increase the world supply and lower the price.

There is a petition drive going called 'Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less.' that will be presented to the Congress. They're up to 274,000 signatures so far.

http://www.americansolutions.com/act...b-346a1e096659

There are also huge ongoing tax breaks given to big oil.

They don't open refineries because they didn't get the funding from the government to make it profitable.

Oil refined into petroleum may be a small part of what crude is used for but it is still be handed to us under false pretenses.

We all have points of view and can pull statistics to support ourselves, that I would say is a given.

What I am saying is that this is deliberate. They knew it was coming, so did some of us, but the capitalized on it. That in and of itself is no big deal, Welcome to America, but the way they not only did it but are doing it to us now, rankles me.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

There are also huge ongoing tax breaks given to big oil.

They don't open refineries because they didn't get the funding from the government to make it profitable.

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Huge tax breaks is entirely relative to already heavy taxes levied against them. If I take all of your income in taxes, but then give you 10% back, should that be called a huge tax break?

The lack of refineries and prices are, as another poster said, largely the result of the environmental movement. Not saying that's all bad, but we're paying for it.

JonV

Only in our dreams.

We're having a bit of a fuel outrage over here in the UK at the mo, prices just keep rising consistantly, and have gone from under £1 per litre about 3 months ago, to an average of £1.22 per litre. I'm lucky as where I live it's nowhere near the most expensive, but I'm still paying £1.20 per litre as I have to use Shell's V-Power (99ron) as my car is a Jap import.

Just thought I'd ask what you're prices are over in America at the minute?

Over here in Fl, it's around $3.80 - $4.00 U.S. per gallon for 87 octane.

Here in Central Oregon we're paying $4.15 for 87 octane.

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Originally Posted by 771subliminal

http://www.wicz.com/news2005/viewarticle.asp?a=6394

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If it happens, good for them. Its about time! That will mean feed will go down and so will all the Rat food, rats! yay.

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Originally Posted by EvilDes

We're having a bit of a fuel outrage over here in the UK at the mo, prices just keep rising consistantly, and have gone from under £1 per litre about 3 months ago, to an average of £1.22 per litre. I'm lucky as where I live it's nowhere near the most expensive, but I'm still paying £1.20 per litre as I have to use Shell's V-Power (99ron) as my car is a Jap import.

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How can that be? I thought big US Oil companies were to blame and that the rest of the world was enjoying practically free gas???

*This was sarcasm, in case you couldn't tell.

Our prices are rising significantly as well. And 1 pound= $2, so they are paying about $8+ per gallon.

JonV

I would love it if they capped gas prices, but I don't see it happening. I also see it causing a more problems down the road.

The only real answer for us is to find an alternative energy source, and stop giving the oil companies so much money!


Currently paying 4.80 a gallon for diesel, it costs about $130 to fill up. It is currently 4.97 a gallon just south of us, so it will go up here in the next couple weeks.
Wish we had the option of having a small car but having to pull a trailer for work that is just not an option.

Hi,

Actually since british and american gallons are different sizes etc the average price Evildes quotes works out at $9.08 a gallon.

Err .. I think. :oops:


dr del

I dropped $4.15 a gal for 87 octane (the cheap stuff) on saturday.

It's worse in Chicago. I got one report from my dad at $4.35 for the same octane.

The English Gallon is 4.54 liters and the American is only 3.78 liters

so he's paying about $8.92 for one british gallon

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Originally Posted by 771subliminal

http://www.wicz.com/news2005/viewarticle.asp?a=6394

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I dont think ole Bush is going to allow his oil companies to lose money :colbert:.I think its just another stunt lie to make us wait for something that will never happen ;)

Yeah, sorry, we measure our prices in litres at the pumps. Albeit, we don't have anything anywhere near as low as 87 octane. Our lowest is 95, most super is 97, and the highest is 99ron. Not sure if you measure your octanes differently as I know there is something slightly different to RON measurements.

But yeah, think it works out to about $9.22 for a gallon.

Hmmm, I think we're getting a bit more shafted than you lot :rofl: :(:mad: Stupid government over here are taxing us through the roof, not to mention nobody can afford to buy a house anymore and the housing market is about to crash. And we are getting overrun by illegal immigrants. And we can't be proud to be English/British for fear of being called racist.

Dammit - any room over there for me? :P Great Britain isn't so great.

Your economy is different. Our housing market is already crashing and we probably have more illegals than you do.

Sure, come on over.

:D

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Originally Posted by Coins

Your economy is different. Our housing market is already crashing and we probably have more illegals than you do.

Sure, come on over.

:D

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Europe has always had to pay double or triple or even more than what we pay here for gasoline. As islands, England, Ireland and Scotland don't have the illegal immigrant population that Countries on the mainland have especially since the collapse of the Iron Curtain but they have their share of immigrant troubles, Yah Mon! Our European members must bite their tongues often when communicating with naive Yanks on the internet. ;)

Well, I didn't call, nor think any of you are naive! :oops: I also hope you don't think we're naive. :oops:

I honestly don't believe our country has ever been in the mess it's in now when not so long back things seemed to be booming and on the up. Sure, economies crash or go into recession, but it's not just that. I've spoke to a lot of people in recent times and not one of them believes England is still a country you can be proud of. Most people I know are considering emmigrating for many reasons, not just economical. I'm not sure about over in America, but over here, we aren't allowed to call Christmas, Christmas anymore, because some do-gooder behind a desk thinks it might offend someone. We can't display a Christmas tree in Birmingham airport for fear of offending someone. A British Airways worker was told to remove her Crucifix from her neck recently!

Anyways, I digress, the original post was about petrol prices. Apologies for diverting the topic slightly! :)

For any that believe this would be remotely a good idea,

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PUaY3LhJ-IQ

these are the type of left wing commies your voting for.....

This is political pandering. Any politician who votes Yes will try to say he was helping Americans when in actuality if you think of the whole economic picture this vote is a vote for crippling the US. We have a large group of people close to retirement that are relying on investments to reach that goal. With the recent housing collapse of the housing sector the market has went into a bear market. If caps were put in place the main stocks that are still supporting the market at this time (Energy Stocks) would collapse. The market as a whole would collapse and those people trying to retire in the next couple of years would not be able to do so as all those shares they paid big dollars for would be worthless. Since most Americans do not have pensions and the Social Security system is broke what else do these hopeful retirees have to finance their retirement? The end result is the next great depression.

Additionally if the government caps the price of gas without actually taking control of the industry then the industry can cut production and actually cause shortages during critical times of the year. Why produce gas when it is more productive to make heating oil? These refineries don't just make gas, they make a lot of other things and if they are more productive to make can you blame them?

A lot of other economic issues would be created as well. The only way to reduce the cost of gas is to use less. Unfortunately at this time any surplus the oil companies have would be shipped to other countries. With this said it would have to be a world wide reduction in the use of gas. Hmmmm not going to happen until their economies are hurting. The only way we can do that in the US is to stop buying their goods every chance we get. Insist on "Made in America" products! If it is not made here and you can live without it, don't buy it! This is where the power of the US actually exists, not our government!

Just my :2cent:

On the British paying 9$ a gallon...

The UK is 80,823 sq mi.

The US is 3,536,294 sq mi... From wikipedia, that's roughly 39 times bigger than the UK. Hmm...

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Originally Posted by EvilDes

Yeah, sorry, we measure our prices in litres at the pumps. Albeit, we don't have anything anywhere near as low as 87 octane. Our lowest is 95, most super is 97, and the highest is 99ron. Not sure if you measure your octanes differently as I know there is something slightly different to RON measurements.

But yeah, think it works out to about $9.22 for a gallon.

Hmmm, I think we're getting a bit more shafted than you lot :rofl: :(:mad: Stupid government over here are taxing us through the roof, not to mention nobody can afford to buy a house anymore and the housing market is about to crash. And we are getting overrun by illegal immigrants. And we can't be proud to be English/British for fear of being called racist.

Dammit - any room over there for me? :P Great Britain isn't so great.

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If I recall correctly you have universal health care, at least partially funded by your gas taxes?? Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

I recall when I was in London and we took a tour through some immigrant neighborhoods in which I felt very uncomfortable, to say the least. Look at the problems they are having in France, and it's probably only going to get worse.

Yeah, we got room for you over here. You get a free gun with your citizenship too! J/k! :)

JonV

I think one of the big differences in oil prices here and in Europe is we produce around 40% of our own oil and I believe all of our natural gas. Many other countries are 100% dependent on imported oil.

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Originally Posted by EvilDes

Well, I didn't call, nor think any of you are naive! :oops: I also hope you don't think we're naive. :oops:

I honestly don't believe our country has ever been in the mess it's in now when not so long back things seemed to be booming and on the up. Sure, economies crash or go into recession, but it's not just that. I've spoke to a lot of people in recent times and not one of them believes England is still a country you can be proud of. Most people I know are considering emmigrating for many reasons, not just economical. I'm not sure about over in America, but over here, we aren't allowed to call Christmas, Christmas anymore, because some do-gooder behind a desk thinks it might offend someone. We can't display a Christmas tree in Birmingham airport for fear of offending someone. A British Airways worker was told to remove her Crucifix from her neck recently!

Anyways, I digress, the original post was about petrol prices. Apologies for diverting the topic slightly! :)

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I meant naive to the extent of not realizing that you guys have plenty of problems of your own. Many Americans seem to think that the world exists only in North America. Our Government offices are for the most part forbidden to mention Christmas but can offer a vague "Happy Holidays". In some locations you can mention Christmas if you include a mention of all known religions also. Our retail stores started on that path but it backfired on them and angered people so they went back to Christmas. Private places can display what they wish. England is definitely not the same proud nation that it was at the end of WW2. The world is getting smaller.

Yea well I'm paying between $4.19-$4.29 a gallon right now...

Hell Im payin 4.29-2.74!!!!!!!!

WTF is that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

Hell Im payin 4.29-2.74!!!!!!!!

WTF is that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I only had to pay above $4 per gallon during the Memorial Day weekend. I am paying between $3.95 & $3.99 now. Pat, I can remember when I used to pay 30 cents per gallon.

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Originally Posted by mischevious21

Yea well I'm paying between $4.19-$4.29 a gallon right now...

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That isn't the least of it yet. Currently a lot of the gas fired peakers used for handling short duration demands have been sitting idle due to economics have made it more economical for the utilities to cycle the larger coal burners to meet these needs. As summer approaches and more people start up those power hungry air conditioning units the coal burners will be called into base load duty and no options will exist but to bring the gas burners up. The price of the kilowatt will have to be pretty high to do this. Otherwise the power companies will loose money running these machines and I don't think any business is going to purposefully do something to loose money.

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Originally Posted by Coins

Your economy is different. Our housing market is already crashing and we probably have more illegals than you do.

Sure, come on over.

:D

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The american government interferes a lot less in our private lives than the British government though.

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Originally Posted by dsirkle

Pat, I can remember when I used to pay 30 cents per gallon.

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Wholly crackers you are OLD :O :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I'm blessed to be able to work from home 3 to 4 days a week now. Originally it was only once every 2 weeks but I kept pushing it. Gas was absolutely killing me at 3.65 a gallon can't imagine what it would do to me now. I'd have to take on a 2nd job just to afford gas!

As far as the cap goes, well I've already had my say in a previous post in this thread. We'll just say it's a bad idea. Which shouldn't really surprise anyone when you consider that it was the government who had the idea.

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Originally Posted by dsirkle

I only had to pay above $4 per gallon during the Memorial Day weekend. I am paying between $3.95 & $3.99 now. Pat, I can remember when I used to pay 30 cents per gallon.

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Don't remember 30 cents but I do remember almost having a heart attack when gas broke the $1.00 per gallon mark.

I remember when Clinton was in office paying 1.26... yeah... bring that back!:)