House 2 Balls together?

So i have two ball pythons and i'm planning on putting them in the same enclosure soon. Some people on another forum had told me not to do so, but i think i'm gonna anyways. I have a few friends that house their balls together with no problems. So what y'all think?

I would say no. And most others will also.

I don't understand what kind of validation you are looking for...it seems as if you have your mind set on it so why ask?

I think that's not a good idea. This question comes up often, do a search and see the reasons why it's not a good idea.

There are reasons that people say no about housing more than one snake together. It sounds like you already have your mind set, and I'm not about to try and change it, but I will just mention a few points that you may not have thought of or heard yet.

If you have two snakes housed together, and one stops using the bathroom, how will you know which snake needs attention. It goes the other way to....one has very loose bowel movements, again, how do you know? And if one of them gets sick, even if you know which one it is, it's more than likely going to get the other snake sick, so you then have two vet bills instead of one.

There are many reasons that you shouldn't keep snakes together as a beginner in the hobby (and by beginner I'm talking about less that 10 years or so of experiance...after so long it's a different story). Being with another snake can stress the snake out, and b/c it's stress it can get sick easier. It just doesn't seem worth the risk to me...

I'm not really sure why you posted if you plan on doing it no matter what we say. Although I do hope you read some previous post about houseing multiple snakes together and give the risks some more serious thought...

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Some people on another forum had told me not to do so, but i think i'm gonna anyways.

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Seems to me like you already made up your mind anyway :rolleyes:.

Well its not set in stone that i will put them together. I just wanted some opinions. I have two friends with snakes and thats why i originally got another ball so they could be friends and sleep together. One friend has 3 balls all living together in an enclosure and they always sleep together all cuddled up, always seem active and happy. Antother friend has 2 burmese pythons and 2 balls in the same 4 x 6 enclosure (of course the 2 burmese will have their own room at some point). They have all been together for about a year and a half with no problems, and they all cuddle too, i was so happy to seen the happy all together thats when i got another ball. My balls are in different tanks now, i introduced them last week for the first time out of their tanks, everything went smooth.

So what...do you think that since that didn't kill each other when hey were intro'd that they will be best friends and love each other for all eternity?

For one...ball pythons do not cuddle. one is trying to dominate the other and take it's spot.

If yours are already in their own enclosures you should leave them like that.

I would love to know about your set ups and how you monitor their heat/humidity.

Happy is a human emotion.

I don't think they're cuddling. more like a dominance thing..

wow, 2 burms housed with 2 ball pythons? It isn't a matter of if something is going to happen..but when.

I'm glad you came online to ask your questions. You have people here who have years of experience under their belt and are only trying to help. Your friends, I'm sorry to say, don't have a clue.

:2cent:

Hmm, a hot topic you seem to have chosen as your first....

Define how they are happy? Cuddling is actually dominance, not desiring to be together, but desiring to dominate each other. I have 24 ball pythons currently, and I don't believe that any of them desire to be together (except during breeding season).

I have a 4 x 2 enclosure for the older guy, with humidity and temp gauges on each side, digital and regular. Temp and humidity are always good and attended to if one changes. Hide spots on each side, with water souce too. He is a happy little guy and loves to come out and play. Don't worry their environments are perfect for them i have been around reptiles for years.
Here's an article from a caresheet i found. --

Once you do get another snake you need to quarantine× it from your other snake(s) for a couple of months. The new snake may be diseased or parasitized and you wouldn't want it to infect your healthy animals. Once you quarantine, it's OK to put snakes in the same cage assuming: they are of the same species (Ball Python, Python regius), they are similar sized, and the cage provides ample room and hide boxes. I strongly caution against putting other types of snake together in the same cage. Other species snakes may have care requirements and different types of disease/infection that your Ball Python's immune system cannot handle. You will want to separate them at feeding time.

That's from the kingsnake caresheet for others information:

http://www.kingsnake.com/ballpythonguide/

Can you please provide a link to that caresheet?

Edit- Connie's too fast.

Anyone know the last time that caresheet was updated?

i would say 100% of the people on this site who actually know what they are talking about, dont house any snakes together.

i used to keep mine together. But then, just as someone said, they both got sick. yikes! they've been separated ever since. good luck with whatever you choose! (You'll have more luck if you separate them though.) :gj:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Can you please provide a link to that caresheet?

Edit- Connie's too fast.

Anyone know the last time that caresheet was updated?

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I was just checking that out Robin...

you have been around them for years???

Then why such a noob question? You should already know it is unhealthy to keep ball pythons togethter. You should also know that keeping burms and balls together is foolish.

I could have pulled up any care sheet on ball pythons husbandry also (old and new btw...).

I wanted to know your temps and what you are housing them in and pics if you have any.

Please no more replies from you, everyone else is very helpful, but not your remarks.

OK - is the only reason you want to house together is because you think that they desire companionship? Because they don't. Or is it because you're trying to save space? If that's the reason - consider housing separately in tubs. If it's to save money - then I'd recommend that you not get a second snake.

Other than that - there's really no good reason to house two ball pythons together.

Simple put Mike, there is no reason to house the snakes together, as it isn't beneficial for them; but is more for the keepers benefit.

People argue that they can be found together in the wild, but aside from what people, say, (with out any hard evidence, as ball pythons have NOT been thoroughly researched) something is very true.

They are not social animals, they do not have a social ladder so to speak, or a distinct society involving recognizing other members of a group and relying on them for their mental and physical health.

The only reason people keep them together is because we anthropomorphize them with our fragile emotions and social needs. Snakes are loners, survive alone, and briefly come together to mate once a year. They don't need friends, to cuddle, play or anything we humans like to do.

Ball pythons in general greatly prefer to be in hiding 90% of the time.

Keeping them together can add stress to their lives, which is often enough to weaken their immune system, cause them to refuse food, or for unplanned breedings.

Illnesses are shared, and in rare cases, cannibalism has been documented.

I think keeping any snakes together is a very intense practice suited for those on the professional level, with rigorous indepth experience suited towards zoo keeping or other highly controlled industries.

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Originally Posted by MikeySnakey

Please no more replies from you, everyone else is very helpful, but not your remarks.

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And Mike, she has every right to reply to you, she was not harassing you, but being very direct in her questioning to which you haven't answered. It's a dirty job, but someones got to do it. ;)

Thanks for all your help Connie. I'd say 90% of the time they are hiding. The last thing i want is my babies to be stressed. Hendrix is comfy in his big tank i dont think i will put little Nala in there like i was planning too. Unless i decide to breed and thats a whole new topic. I just can't believe the guy i know with the burmese and the balls together because his family owned a reptile store not too far from me and they sold a lot of different species. I would have thought he would know better, but maybe not. Also at the store they have a giant enclosure with really large Boas together, i'd say five for six of them in there.

That's sad really. Boas need cooler temps, I don't even house mine in the same room! I find pet stores are the worst places to get information from. Most times they give out incredibly false information, along with other little nasties like mites or worse.

You'll find a large passionate community here that strive to teach everyone some easy general care tips for many different species. :gj:

We have beginners to large scale breeders here on this site and many others, so don't ever hesitate to ask anything about anything!

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Originally Posted by MikeySnakey

Please no more replies from you, everyone else is very helpful, but not your remarks.

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Yet you have not answered my questions. :rolleyes:

Mikey, don't be mad cause I don't believe a word you say.

As for not worrying about it...I have no intention of "worrying" about you or your snakes. Believe that. :gj:

Furthermore...buddy..I have been posting here WAY...before you and I will probably be posting here WAY after you. ;)

drama in the bp.net

as stated many times above the "cuddling" isnt a hi i like you lets snuggle thing. its a move mofo i want you spot thing. i have been keeping reptiles for right at 15 yrs and i would NEVER house two snakes together for any other reason that for them to breed. if your friends or anyone else is telling you it is ok they are simply ignorant. but like stated before it seem like you have your mind already made up so good luck with what ever decision you do make.

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Originally Posted by MikeySnakey

Thanks for all your help Connie. I'd say 90% of the time they are hiding. The last thing i want is my babies to be stressed. Hendrix is comfy in his big tank i dont think i will put little Nala in there like i was planning too. Unless i decide to breed and thats a whole new topic. I just can't believe the guy i know with the burmese and the balls together because his family owned a reptile store not too far from me and they sold a lot of different species. I would have thought he would know better, but maybe not. Also at the store they have a giant enclosure with really large Boas together, i'd say five for six of them in there.

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this is condridicorty (sp) when you first posted that the burms and BPs were together you said they were fine and had NO problems. plus that they love to cuddle up. then you say you cant believe they did it like you are against it when in fact you were planning on housing 2 BPs together. do you not see the obvious issue of have a snake that can get 20+feet and over 200lbs in a cage with a 5 foot at the biggest snake? do you not realize it would get smothered or squashed if not just killed.

i also would love to see some pics of your setups and some good info on you equipment and stats on you conditions.

I agree with everything everyone has said. I've only had my BP a short while now but I used to have about 50 different snakes and I never once housed any of them together. The only time I really hear about a large group of snakes together is Rattlers hibernating and Garters in the winter. I think you will be much happier with the results of housing separately and I think your snakes will appreciate it too. Just my :twocents:

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Originally Posted by MikeySnakey

The last thing i want is my babies to be stressed. Hendrix is comfy in his big tank i dont think i will put little Nala in there like i was planning too. Unless i decide to breed and thats a whole new topic.

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It also sounds like you have a girl and a boy. To house them together could cause some very serious health issues...Males are ready to breed long before the females. If you were to house them together and they breed before she is up to a decent size, it could spell out some bad health issues for the female. If you breed a female too soon (and if there is an active male in the take with her, she very well may breed) she may not have the nutrients it takes to create the eggs, or it could over tax her body in the process.

Housing two snakes of the same sex isn't a good idea....and housing two snakes of opposite sex is an even worse idea...

I thought that berms and balls needs as far as humidity and temps were not the same. So which one is getting what they need?:rolleye2::rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by roosterman2173

I thought that berms and balls needs as far as humidity and temps were not the same. So which one is getting what they need?:rolleye2::rolleye2:

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Neither.
That's my bet.

Guess he went to find another new forum AGAIN?
LOL!

You can keep two equal sized female balls together. However, no good comes from it.... only complications will result. Un needed complications. You should never keep two males, or a male and a female together permanently.

I could probably force my kids to sleep in the same bed together until they leave for college.... That doesn't mean it makes sense to do it, or that it is in their best interests! Get it?


PS Don't ask for opions in a public form then try to say some people can't answer. It makes you sound like a complete idiot. (not saying that you are an idiot at all, it just makes you sound like an idiot)

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Originally Posted by MikeySnakey

Please no more replies from you, everyone else is very helpful, but not your remarks.

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Now if you come here asking questions it will be answered by whomever has the answers ;).I see no reason for you to be rude towards her because she is giving you the CORRECT info.Its plain and simple 1 snake per enclosure :gj:.Do you friends a favor have them join here and we will educate them also :D

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Simple put Mike, there is no reason to house the snakes together, as it isn't beneficial for them; but is more for the keepers benefit.

People argue that they can be found together in the wild, but aside from what people, say, (with out any hard evidence, as ball pythons have NOT been thoroughly researched) something is very true.

They are not social animals, they do not have a social ladder so to speak, or a distinct society involving recognizing other members of a group and relying on them for their mental and physical health.

The only reason people keep them together is because we anthropomorphize them with our fragile emotions and social needs. Snakes are loners, survive alone, and briefly come together to mate once a year. They don't need friends, to cuddle, play or anything we humans like to do.

Ball pythons in general greatly prefer to be in hiding 90% of the time.

Keeping them together can add stress to their lives, which is often enough to weaken their immune system, cause them to refuse food, or for unplanned breedings.

Illnesses are shared, and in rare cases, cannibalism has been documented.

I think keeping any snakes together is a very intense practice suited for those on the professional level, with rigorous indepth experience suited towards zoo keeping or other highly controlled industries.

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erm, wot she said?

i'm a complete n00b and will admit it whole heartedly, but even after just reading your OP, :( poor snakes. a BURM with a BALL? d00d.... snakes occasionally decide to eat other snakes, first of all oh my goodness, secondly... like eeeveryone else said, snakes are loners, they don't want company! yiiikes!

putting a male in with a female? you know thats a recipe for disaster. good luck with your endeavors!

Wow, there is so much poor information out there. I just wanted to say thank to you guys for all the GOOD info that I've gotten from you in the weeks before I got my ball and continuing on now that I've had her for a couple of months. I avoided making stupid moves like that and I know that I have a reliable resource for whenever I have a question regarding the care and keeping of my animal.
Responsible and educated care is they key here!
Later, love you guys :D

So i ended up putting them together in May 2008. My bearded dragon passed away so they got an upgrade to a 75 gallon tank! They are just the best. They are always sleeping together and it is just so cute! I finnally decided to put them together because i started speaking with a breeder who produces 30,000 plus balls a year. And in the end he convinced me that it would be best to keep them together. They have been doing fine ever since. They are both active, eating, shedding etc! My older ball Hendrix ia actually even more chill now. When i take them out and let them slither around they always follow one another around the room and usually holding tails. It is very cute i am glad that they are together and seem to be in love. Thanks for all your help everyone!

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Originally Posted by MikeySnakey

holding tails. It is very cute i am glad that they are together and seem to be in love.

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Do you know their sexes because you may be getting some unwanted eggs soon.

They don't hold tails. They breed. Are you prepared for eggs?

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Originally Posted by MikeySnakey

So i ended up putting them together in May 2008. My bearded dragon passed away so they got an upgrade to a 75 gallon tank! They are just the best. They are always sleeping together and it is just so cute! I finnally decided to put them together because i started speaking with a breeder who produces 30,000 plus balls a year. And in the end he convinced me that it would be best to keep them together. They have been doing fine ever since. They are both active, eating, shedding etc! My older ball Hendrix ia actually even more chill now. When i take them out and let them slither around they always follow one another around the room and usually holding tails. It is very cute i am glad that they are together and seem to be in love. Thanks for all your help everyone!

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:irkd: why do people ask questions if they aren't going to listen anyway???

so frustrating :rage:

:disbelief

Poor snakes:weirdface

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Originally Posted by MikeySnakey

So i ended up putting them together in May 2008. My bearded dragon passed away so they got an upgrade to a 75 gallon tank! They are just the best. They are always sleeping together and it is just so cute! I finnally decided to put them together because i started speaking with a breeder who produces 30,000 plus balls a year. And in the end he convinced me that it would be best to keep them together. They have been doing fine ever since. They are both active, eating, shedding etc! My older ball Hendrix ia actually even more chill now. When i take them out and let them slither around they always follow one another around the room and usually holding tails. It is very cute i am glad that they are together and seem to be in love. Thanks for all your help everyone!

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This person is not playing with a full deck. Holding tails? :confused: In Love? :confused: Somebody is :rolleye2::rolleye2::rolleye2::rolleye2::rolleye2:

i used to house 2 ball pythons together when i first got some, like years ago....
both snakes are dead now...
if i woulda kept em seperate i bet id at least still have one of em...

I'm not sure of the sexes. But babies are always a plus! And i asked questions because i did not know the right answers. Fortunatly i did get some good advice in the end.

so if you dont mind telling..the breeder who hatches 30 000 eggs or whatever, why did he tell you itd be best to keep em together...

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Originally Posted by MikeySnakey

I'm not sure of the sexes. But babies are always a plus! And i asked questions because i did not know the right answers. Fortunatly i did get some good advice in the end.

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If the snakes are still housed together AND you are unsure of the sexes, I would hardly say you got good advice. The GOOD advice you got here - you OBVIOUSLY did not follow.


:disbelief

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Originally Posted by MikeySnakey

So i ended up putting them together in May 2008. My bearded dragon passed away so they got an upgrade to a 75 gallon tank! They are just the best. They are always sleeping together and it is just so cute! I finnally decided to put them together because i started speaking with a breeder who produces 30,000 plus balls a year. And in the end he convinced me that it would be best to keep them together. They have been doing fine ever since. They are both active, eating, shedding etc! My older ball Hendrix ia actually even more chill now. When i take them out and let them slither around they always follow one another around the room and usually holding tails. It is very cute i am glad that they are together and seem to be in love. Thanks for all your help everyone!

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I would like to know who this " breeder who produces 30,000 plus balls a year" is who told you "it would be best to keep them together". I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that he/she doesn't exist. I can say that with great certainty because there isn't a single breeder, big or small, I have EVER talked to who would tell you it's BEST to keep them both together. What it looks like to me is that after you were told elsewhere that it was a bad idea, you came here hoping someone was going to give you a big hug and stroke your hair all while telling you that all those meanies don't know what they're talking about and that YOU know what's best for those animals. Well, I promise you that you're not gonna get that here. You're going to get cold, hard facts, and the best advice on keeping ball-pythons you could possibly get. Obviously you chose to ignore the advice you've been given by several people now.

Here, in case you missed it last time... BALL PYTHONS DO NOT CUDDLE!!! ONE IS TRYING TO DOMINATE THE OTHER FOR THE BEST SPOT IN THE TANK

Sounds like you have a male and a female because they don't "hold tails". They're locking up and best case scenario, you're going to end up with eggs, that is if your snake isn't too small to breed and ends up eggbound and dies... But good for you. You put those snakes together because you know best! Take that you intarwebz meanies!!!

(Not gonna bother wasting my time asking about temps and humidity in that 75 gallon glass aquarium. But I'll wager a guess... 130 on the hot side from an unregulated UTH and 70 on the cool side, with about 20% humidity...)

This thread will be locked quickly if you guys want to poke sticks. It's pretty obvious to me it's going down that road. Keep the bear baiting and name calling out please.

Mikey, You've gotten plenty of advice from a lot of good people, but it seems pretty apparent that you will not listen to advice that you don't believe. Why ask questions if you don't want the answers? It's beyond me. I don't get it. But I hope everything works out for the best for you and your animals.

This forum is here for you if you need help. Experienced people will answer your questions. It's up to you to listen and react.

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Originally Posted by MikeySnakey

I'm not sure of the sexes. But babies are always a plus! And i asked questions because i did not know the right answers. Fortunatly i did get some good advice in the end.

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I wouldn't say you got good advise. I would say you kept asking the same question until you found someone who would finally tell you what you wanted to hear in the first place.

I came to ask some questions from non professionals and non experts. I got mixed answers so i went to an expert and got the right answer. Thats the bottom line. I just wanted to update so some people could see that these animals can be compainions. I will update with pictures, i have many many great pics of them cuddling together, bathing together, sleeping and holding tails. Thanks for the replys :)

This was asked but I will ask again. Are you ready for your female to get eggbound? Do you know what to look for or what to do if this happens? If they are holding tails (see other threads for "Locking or breeding" and it will show you some good photos of ball locking up for breeding). Do you know the signs of ovulation? Do you know what bowl rapping and laying inverted means? Do you know the temps the female has to have to keep the eggs from dying? Where are you going to put the babies and what are you going to feed the babies (assuming you get that far)?

Let me tell you from cold hard experence. There is only one thing sadder than to incubate eggs untill they almost hatch then have them die because of a heat spike. It is sad. It is loosing the female and the eggs.

Bigger is not better for spacing for bp's look around the forum, you will get some great advice, if you really want it.

IF you really have bp's and are not just jurking us around, Show us a photo of your habitat hen we can help you even more.

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Originally Posted by MikeySnakey

I came to ask some questions from non professionals and non experts. I got mixed answers so i went to an expert and got the right answer. Thats the bottom line. I just wanted to update so some people could see that these animals can be compainions. I will update with pictures, i have many many great pics of them cuddling together, bathing together, sleeping and holding tails.

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:disbelief