How would you feel...

So how would you feel if you were trying to buy a snake from a breeder and they were unwilling to accept payment via pay pal?? ... You tell them you are not willing to send X amount of dollars to some random person via check or money order(the only methods they accept) bc its pretty much cash and there is no way of "tracking" your money... pay pal is secure and is a means of tracking your money incase something like ...ummm i dunno say you never get your snake!... and this is their response...

I've already given you my final answer. Eventually you will have to trust people to do business with them. You've implied a number of times how this deal might go bad, and that I would scam you in some way. I wish there was a way I can make you feel comfortable, but I can't. And if you don't trust me, there is nothing I can do about it. I know you wanted the snake, that's why I'm willing to settle on your offer, but if you have other interests in other snakes, and thoughs people make you feel comfortable, then I think you should do business with them instead. I honestly feel bad, and I'm sorry to loose your business, but I can also understand your insecurities, with the way some people conduct business. Josh, good luck, and may you have wonderful experiences in the herp community. Thank you,

Sounds kinda shadey to me... I'd take my business elsewhere. Like to someone who DOES accept paypal.

Just my :2cent:

It's their prerogative not to use Paypal and it's yours not to do business with them. Personally, I wouldn't mind sending someone a check or M.O. if they had a good reputation. If there wasn't a lot of information out there to give them a reputation, I would look elsewhere...

I'm kind of impressed with his response, actually. So many people in this "industry" get all defensive and pissy if you dare to challenge how they choose to conduct their business.

Maybe this person has had bad issues with Pay Pal in the past. Plenty of people have been completely burned by that means of transaction. It's entirely up to them how they choose to run their own business....and if it's important enough to them to stick to their guns, even if it means losing a sale....then more power to 'em. I certainly wouldn't take it personally.

And it's entirely within your right to choose not to buy that snake if you can't accept their offered methods of payment. But you shouldn't hold that against them any more than they hold your choice not to buy against you.

I wouldnt have held it against them IF they had a reasonable reason they did not accept pay pal. His initial excuse was "I dont like the fees and Ive heard horror stories"... "oh but you can send that check or M.O. to the PO box below." I offered to pay the 3% and he again had no explanation why he wouldnt take pay pal... one word comes to mind ... scam

Personally I don't get hung up on how they except payment. If you want the snake then their are way to do business other than pay-pal. You sent them a check via certified mail with a signature receipt. They have to sign to receive it and you get a copy of their signature saying they got the check. Second request an invoice with the shipment and have them send the shipment signature receipt also so if your never gets to you then they have to provide proof in court that you signed for the snake. Also if you never get the snake and you write them a check you can go to your bank and sign an affidavit thats allows you to take them to court. Keep all emails of their willingness to send the animals requiring a signature. And rock on

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

I wouldnt have held it against them IF they had a reasonable reason they did not accept pay pal.

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He doesn't have to have a reason that you think is good enough thats how he chooses to do business. It sounds like they have already worked with you on the price and what not so they aren't totally bad they just aren't allowing you to pay in a way thats convenient for you. If its that big of a deal thank them for their time and take your business else where.

I mean I don't take Pay-pal I hate the idea of my personal banking information stored some place other than an FDIC insured institution. They have a breach and they are not responsible for returning your money if the hacker gets you info.

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

So how would you feel if you were trying to buy a snake from a breeder and they were unwilling to accept payment via pay pal??

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I run an online game that uses paypal as the primary method of purchasing additional turns and upgrades, and I can tell you that paypal is a huge PITA. It's not FDIC insured, and they bend you over on the charges (depending on the transaction amount, up to 15% of the total). All this means is that "your" money isn't actually yours while it's in paypal's hands, and there is no guarantee that you'll get the money should paypal decide to lock the account down (which happens more regularly than they admit).

Technically, in your situation, a check would be the same as a paypal transaction in that you can always stop payment on a check. A money order, on the other hand, is a bad idea if you're even the slightest bit uncomfortable.

A check wouldnt work bc they obviously wouldnt ship until the check cashed... Put it this way... do you know any breeders that would ship the snake first and then have the buyer send the money after they get the snake? ... yeaaa prolly not.

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

I wouldnt have held it against them IF they had a reasonable reason they did not accept pay pal. His initial excuse was "I dont like the fees and Ive heard horror stories"... "oh but you can send that check or M.O. to the PO box below." I offered to pay the 3% and he again had no explanation why he wouldnt take pay pal... one word comes to mind ... scam

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They don't owe you any explanation at all. And I don't think that sounds scammy in the least.

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

A check wouldnt work bc they obviously wouldnt ship until the check cashed... Put it this way... do you know any breeders that would ship the snake first and then have the buyer send the money after they get the snake? ... yeaaa prolly not.

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You have to have the snake immediately? I'm sure if they're reputable they'll hold the animal until the check clears. Generally thats how a transaction works, you pay for the item, then you get the item shipped to you, not vice-versa.

If I were in the breeder's shoes, I too would wait to be paid before shipping out one of my hatchlings to insure that you're good for the money, not saying you aren't, but thats also a "what if". Whats a few days wait?

I'm not sure if you read the whole thread or you are just missing my point... actually you just proved it. Someone previously suggested that a check is the same as pay pal bc you can cancel the check... my point was you cant cancel the check when they dont ship the snake until it cashes... how are you supposed to know yove been scammed? You dont until its too late...

My point with the whole breeder ship first was proof that you all wouldnt trust me to send you the money after I got the snake so why would I trust him to send me the snake after I paid him? Other breeders have given me reasoning to trust them and I paid them(plenty more than this would have been) and the transaction went smooth... this guy has avoided the one question, several times, that would get me to trust him... why wont you accept pay pal?? He continually dodged the question and previous posters say "he doesnt have to give you an reason" yea no duh but that obviously isnt gonna get me to send him the money and furthers my reasoning to believe this ad is a scam.

If it wasnt a scam why would he be so fishy and just say "sorry dont accept pay pal?"

Did you do a background check on him or know of ant referrals?
Shopping via internet definately can be scary. I will admit that years ago I sent someone $ for a great deal and ended up with a missexed animal.

If you dont trust him hold on to your $.
I use paypal and never had a problems but I have heard of people that had some "I got burned" experiences.

Actually the snake I just mentioned was purchsed through paypal.

Bottom line only deal with people you can trust. I have purchased animals sight unseen because of trust and have been more than happy.

heres my question you send the money paypal. He doesn't send the snake where do you go from there?? Are you any worse off than if it was a check??

Raul I did find some info on fauna on the breeder and it wasnt good... it did involve pay pal and it was a month ago... what made it even more eery was the fact that this lil issue happened a month ago yet they had "heard of horror stories"... If you were just involved in an issue with pay pal why would you say "I've heard?" I understand he probably doesnt want to bring that situation up but I would have had more respect for them if they came out and said I got ripped off through pay pal (which is questionable) over saying "I've heard" horror stories. After reading the thread on fauna you get the impression that they were the scammer who got busted, realized pay pal wouldnt work for their scam and now they wont take it bc they cant get away with it.

The crappy thing is everyone says "so dont give your money to him" well obviously but its not like I can go down the street and pick up the same thing at walmart... unfortunately some snakes are a 1 of a kind and there isnt always the same thing available... It would have been way cooler if they took pay pal, it wasnt a scam, and I got the friggin snake!

Ultimately it is up to you, the buyer, to do what you feel most comfortable with. If that means letting this purchase go, than that's what it means.

However, in defense of business owners who may elect not to use PayPal...

PayPal works like a credit card; it is free for you to send money, but the person receiving it is charged a % on sales AND a % when transferring money over $100 to a bank account. That can add up. Many small business owners don't want to deal with that, because it would mean ultimately raising their fees to offset their own expenses.

Now, that said;

If this seller is legit and known in the herp industry, I would assume that they would be listed at Fauna. Read the reports from other buyers and see if they are all they seem to be.

Hope that helps.

I think the real issue here is that you found a snake you can't walk away from for a price yo can't turn down and now your starting to think it's not all its cracked up to be.

Freakie - pretty much the same situation happened with this breeder a month ago with another customer... they got the $$ via pay pal and "shipped" the snake... Tracking showed delivered but the person receiving the snake said they never got it... they went to pay pal saying I never received this and got their money back....

This could be the reason this breeder does not want to use pay pal because they feel they got screwed but why not come out and say it from the start?... Someone in that situation is the scammer... is it the person who didnt get the snake? or is it the guy who never shipped the snake? Its up to the reader to decide whose wrong so its a sticky situation. Either way after reading the fauna thread and reading their emails they definitely gave me the feeling they were the scammer.

Freakie your kinda right... that and the fact that the snake is X amount of dollars and I'm not in the situation where I am ready to take the chance of losing X amount of dollars... Again a lot of it has to do with his responses... he wasnt willing to take my initial offer but then comes back 3 days later and goes OK ill take it? I dunno too much wierdness for me to think its not a scam

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

heres my question you send the money paypal. He doesn't send the snake where do you go from there?? Are you any worse off than if it was a check??

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Bingo! Could have issues with either check or paypal. But like I said in my first post, if the breeder is REPUTABLE, then sending the money via check shouldn't be an issue!;)

Josh if you want to PM me and I'll see if I can put you in touch with a breeder that is trust worthy and will treat you fair and have the snake your looking for.

I don't blame them for not using paypal. I can attest to numerous nightmares involving them. How about signing up for "virtual terminal" to the tune of $30.00 a month and it taking them 6 months and the threat of legal action to cancel it?

Paypal is a scammers best friend. The burden of proof is ALWAYS on the seller of the product/services as far as paypal is concerned. Go look at paypalsucks.com and you can read story after story of people who have gotten screwed because they have used paypal.

As far as your concern about getting scammed... Sure, anything is possible but no one who is a scammer stays in business long. There was once a time when people bought things from mail order catalogs. They would send their check or money order and wait for 3 or 4 weeks while the item cleared and then wait an additional 2 or 3 weeks for it to be shipped to them. The idea that someone is more likely to scam someone because they only take check or money orders is absurd at best.

A postal money order would offer you some protection as well, as it would be a federal crime if they stole your money (this is what I've been told and read on Fauna BOI in the past).

Check or Money order FTW. I would find another seller if they don't accept PayPal, check or MO.

A lot of people just plain don't like the way paypal does business. and it's always the sellers prerogative on how they choose to accept payment. Postal money orders are quite secure and are a good protection for both parties. I've used that payment form many times in the past and have never had a problem.

You actually can track a money order, and your bank often allows you to have a bank cashier's check once a day for free. You can track that as well.
Every money order has a set of numbers. ALso if you use a US postal money order you get more protection. You also have protection when you use a personal check.
You can track when it was cash and deposited in the bank, and when its returned to you, the cancelled check that is.
SO if a deal goes bad, you can show the breeder took the money, deposited it, and then did not give you what you paid for.
As long as you keep your money order OR cashier's check stub, you can get your money back, but it may be that you have to take the person to court. But you can track your money and have a way of getting it back.
Carol

I hate doing business by Pay-Pal and never balk at a breeder who chooses to do business via a different method.
That said, I always talk to the breeders over the phone before hand and also ask around the herp community for input regarding the person with whom I am thinking of doing business with...

If paypal sux sooooo bad, why are hundreds of thousands still using it?

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

If paypal sux sooooo bad, why are hundreds of thousands still using it?

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Because they haven't gotten burned by them yet and they probably don't realize that paypal is not a bank and therefore affords absolutely no guarantees or protections.

Eh, I know about ten people that have LOST money through Bank of America, but they still have MILLIONS of people who use them.

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

Eh, I know about ten people that have LOST money through Bank of America, but they still have MILLIONS of people who use them.

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And...?

I guess I'm having a hard time seeing your point, Patrick. There are those of us who had to use paypal for ourselves and learn the lessons the hardway because we're stupid and then there are those who learned it by watching others.

As far as the bank goes at least their are consumer protection and banking laws in place to help curb abuse. Sure sometimes bad things will happen and people will get burned with the law hardly noticing, but at least it's in place. Paypal doesn't have any of those protections and they aren't regulated by any laws.

But hey continue using them and best of luck. Hopefully nothing happens and you have nothing but good experiences with them. Just don't believe for a second that someone who chooses not to use their "services" is somehow a scam artists.