shouldn't there be a governing body

Don't know about you guys, but I watch the for sale section of this forum like a hawk. I have had excellent luck in the past (got 4 of my favorites from it so far) but I have to say...

Shouldn't someone be governing what is for sale, and what people claim it to be? I feel like we have a responsabilty to our new bees to keep a watchfull eye. When someone says they are selling a "black back" for way too much..... then I see the pic, and it has a stripe going up the spine of the lower 1/3rd of the body... Why is the thread allowed to stay?

Because of the for sale rules, nobody can reply and explain that the CONSTANT PATTERN running along the spine means it is NOT a black back..... so it just sits.... and the clueless new bees pay way too much before they learn.

Obviousely in this case it is the new bees fault for not doing more research... But I consider this site to be on a higher level compared to other sites. Shouldn't we be above allowing this to happen?

Don't know what I am talking about? Check out the for sale section of this forum right now.

Please share your thoughts.

deff agree with yah, i have seen some stuff and i was like errr...

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Originally Posted by mcavana

Don't know about you guys, but I watch the for sale section of this forum like a hawk. I have had excellent luck in the past (got 4 of my favorites from it so far) but I have to say...

Shouldn't someone be governing what is for sale, and what people claim it to be? I feel like we have a responsabilty to our new bees to keep a watchfull eye. When someone says they are selling a "black back" for way too much..... then I see the pic, and it has a stripe going up the spine of the lower 1/3rd of the body... Why is the thread allowed to stay?

Because of the for sale rules, nobody can reply and explain that the CONSTANT PATTERN running along the spine means it is NOT a black back..... so it just sits.... and the clueless new bees pay way too much before they learn.

Obviousely in this case it is the new bees fault for not doing more research... But I consider this site to be on a higher level compared to other sites. Shouldn't we be above allowing this to happen?

Don't know what I am talking about? Check out the for sale section of this forum right now.

Please share your thoughts.

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Uumm i would still consider that being a black back ;).

Agreed...I also think their should be some kind of Post Limit to be able to post a classified....I've seen some people posting Ad's with 2-5 posts :rolleyes: They don't contribute to the site...their just here to post ad's..

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Originally Posted by ShawnT

Agreed...I also think their should be some kind of Post Limit to be able to post a classified....I've seen some people posting Ad's with 2-5 posts :rolleyes: They don't contribute to the site...their just here to post ad's..

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This discussion has been repeated numerous times and the rules are what the Admins decided on.We know who is who here and can "skip over" the ad abusers ;)

Thanks for the feedback. We're taking notes ;)

Hi,

We do check ad's to a certain extent you know. ;)

If somone is only here to post adverts they soon burn through the 15 allowed per year. They cannot post ads for the same animal/service within 30 days or bump the ad more than twice.

And, most importantly, if anyone see's an advert they feel is suspicious or misleading in any way all they have to do is Pm any member of staff and they will do their best to look into it for you.

**edit**

Beaten to it again :)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said

**end edit**


dr del

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Originally Posted by nathanledet

Thanks for the feedback. We're taking notes ;)

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Its about time you did something :rofl: :rofl:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

We do check ad's to a certain extent you know. ;)

If somone is only here to post adverts they soon burn through the 15 allowed per year. They cannot post ads for the same animal/service within 30 days or bump the ad more than twice.

And, most importantly, if anyone see's an advert they feel is suspicious or misleading in any way all they have to do is Pm any member of staff and they will do their best to look into it for you.


dr del

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There you go its all covered now :gj:

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Uumm i would still consider that being a black back ;).

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You consider this a black back???!!!!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...tblackback.jpg

If so, I have some fantastic beach front property in Missouri I would love you to take a look at. It is a steal!

LOL, just kidding Joe... I can only assume we were not talking about the same thread.

Mike

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Originally Posted by mcavana

You consider this a black back???!!!!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...tblackback.jpg

If so, I have some fantastic beach front property in Missouri I would love you to take a look at. It is a steal!

LOL, just kidding Joe... I can only assume we were not talking about the same thread.

Mike

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Ok so its only a 90% blackback :P

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Originally Posted by joepythons

Ok so its only a 90% blackback :P

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About that beach front property in MO..... I am willing to sell it to you for only 90% of my asking price!!!! Just don't tell anyone....

:gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj:

biting my tounge...

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Originally Posted by mcavana

About that beach front property in MO..... I am willing to sell it to you for only 90% of my asking price!!!! Just don't tell anyone....

:gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj:

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I will buy it only if it faces northeast by southwest :8: :8: :8:

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Originally Posted by mcavana

biting my tounge...

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I have heard of people eating cow tongue but never there own :weirdface :weirdface:puke2::puke2: :rofl: :rofl:

I thought a blackback had to have mostly all black along its spine... The snake in the pic has a normal pattern for the first half of it's body, then about 25% of the back is black, then the last 25% including the tail is a brown stripe, not black. I see at most 1/3 black back. Is there a set of rules that classify a blackback, or is it like a reduced pattern where anyone can argue "the pattern is reduced somewhat so it is reduced pattern" even though some or most of the snake still has alien eyes... I guess I am confused really.

*EDIT* I guess I should have made that a new thread? Sorry for hijacking...

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Originally Posted by joepythons

I will buy it only if it faces northeast by southwest :8: :8: :8:

I have heard of people eating cow tongue but never there own :weirdface :weirdface:puke2::puke2: :rofl: :rofl:

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It is only the extra cool kids that eat their own tongue...

Don't know if there are any set rules on what clasifies a snake as a black back. Generaly speaking almost all of the back needs to be black!!!! Some of the nicer ones I have seen do have a small strip at the tail, but pretty much the whole rest of the back is black... here is a good example.

http://www.jnjreptiles.com/pictures/male_bb_6.jpg

Anyways, I am not just talking about this one post at all. There have been a few "questionable" posts lately.

Looks like a black back to me, although a low quality one. :confused:

I'd call that a black back as a descriptor. I don't think the ad claimed it to be a genetic black back. :confuzd:

Just as reduced pattern is not guaranteed to be genetic, there are genetic reduced patterns, and then reduced pattern as a descriptor.

Ok. This is my snake for sale that's being mentioned. I would have appreciated to be PM'ed about this thread by whoever had the problem before you started a thread on it.

Anyways, I don't know why you don't consider that animal a black back. I bought it from Ralph Davis back in November. Ralph Davis, one of THE biggest ball python guys out there, wrote black back on it's record card. I did not over emphasize black back (as a matter of fact I only wrote the word black back one time...) because she isn't the most amazing black back, but she certainly is one. I didnt say genetic, but I did say she should have an influence on her offspring patternwise. That is a reasonable claim. If you don't think she is a nice black back, then don't buy her.

As for price, again, that's completely at my discretion as the seller. If you don't agree with the price, that is completely fine. I don't agree with plenty of prices either. Again, just don't buy the snake.


Randy

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Originally Posted by Petboy15

Ok. This is my snake for sale that's being mentioned. I would have appreciated to be PM'ed about this thread by whoever had the problem before you started a thread on it.

As for price, again, that's completely at my discretion as the seller. If you don't agree with the price, that is completely fine. I don't agree with plenty of prices either. Again, just don't buy the snake.


Randy

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You can price the animal however you see fit Randy. :gj:

And I do think it's pretty rude to not have contacted the owner of the snake before this rant. It looks like a black back to me.

The Mods do their job very well on this site. You can only take away so many freedoms before it inflicts on the regular users.

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Originally Posted by Petboy15

Ok. This is my snake for sale that's being mentioned. I would have appreciated to be PM'ed about this thread by whoever had the problem before you started a thread on it.

Anyways, I don't know why you don't consider that animal a black back. I bought it from Ralph Davis back in November. Ralph Davis, one of THE biggest ball python guys out there, wrote black back on it's record card. I did not over emphasize black back (as a matter of fact I only wrote the word black back one time...) because she isn't the most amazing black back, but she certainly is one. I didnt say genetic, but I did say she should have an influence on her offspring patternwise. That is a reasonable claim. If you don't think she is a nice black back, then don't buy her.

As for price, again, that's completely at my discretion as the seller. If you don't agree with the price, that is completely fine. I don't agree with plenty of prices either. Again, just don't buy the snake.


Randy

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Randy - please don't let this thread get to you. You did nothing dishonest in your ad. You even have pictures posted, it's up to the individual buyer to decide if they want to pay your asking price. There was no deception on your part. :hug:

Thanks Connie and Robin...

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Originally Posted by Petboy15

Ok. This is my snake for sale that's being mentioned. I would have appreciated to be PM'ed about this thread by whoever had the problem before you started a thread on it.

Anyways, I don't know why you don't consider that animal a black back. I bought it from Ralph Davis back in November. Ralph Davis, one of THE biggest ball python guys out there, wrote black back on it's record card. I did not over emphasize black back (as a matter of fact I only wrote the word black back one time...) because she isn't the most amazing black back, but she certainly is one. I didnt say genetic, but I did say she should have an influence on her offspring patternwise. That is a reasonable claim. If you don't think she is a nice black back, then don't buy her.

As for price, again, that's completely at my discretion as the seller. If you don't agree with the price, that is completely fine. I don't agree with plenty of prices either. Again, just don't buy the snake.


Randy

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You know i was thinking about this early this morning :O.So i since Ralph considers it a blackback then i agree with him as all ready posted :P.Its your snake to sell so you are asking a fair price for her :gj:

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Originally Posted by mcavana

About that beach front property in MO..... I am willing to sell it to you for only 90% of my asking price!!!! Just don't tell anyone....

:gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj: :gj:

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I guess i will not be buying your land after all :rolleye2:

Ok, call it a black back. Its not, but go ahead.

Why does nobody have a problem with the description? It is a 2004 that weighs only 900 grams. It hasn't eaten in just under 7 months. He states multiple times that it should be ready to breed this next season... and that is the reason to buy it.

Do you think this is designed to get someone who knows what there doing interested? Or do you think it is trying to lure in a new bee without a clue that wants to breed balls and get rich?

I am sorry I did not contact this seller to start with. keep in mind, this thread was about general concerns... not just this very misleading thread.

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Originally Posted by mcavana

keep in mind, this thread was about general concerns... not just this very misleading thread.

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I can vouch for Randy and I can assure you there was no intention on his part to mislead or rip off anyone. Randy is a young, very mature member here who is also knowledgeable and could likely teach you a thing or two. In other words don’t be so quick to judge people!

A PM or bringing this to the attention of the staff might have been a better option than making this kind of thread.

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Originally Posted by mcavana

Ok, call it a black back. Its not, but go ahead.

Why does nobody have a problem with the description? It is a 2004 that weighs only 900 grams. It hasn't eaten in just under 7 months. He states multiple times that it should be ready to breed this next season... and that is the reason to buy it.

Do you think this is designed to get someone who knows what there doing interested? Or do you think it is trying to lure in a new bee without a clue that wants to breed balls and get rich?

I am sorry I did not contact this seller to start with. keep in mind, this thread was about general concerns... not just this very misleading thread.

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Randy, Is an A-1 guy in my book! There is nothing wrong with his ad as far as I can see. I'd have a problem if he posted it to be a genetic bb. But he didnt. It is still considered a bb though. And is a pretty nice one at that! Calm down Brother!:gj:

I don't know the advertiser of this snake but I can see no wrong doing on his part. He gives the age, weight, he discloses a feeding problem, he bought it from a reputable breeder with paperwork calling it a black back and his asking price is not out of line. I see no embellishment. A person could always make him an offer for less than he is asking if they feel that he is asking too much. I have seen ads (not on this site) of people claiming a new morph and asking thousands of dollars for what appears to me to be an unusual normal and if the traits can be passed on to offspring or not is unknown. That is not above board to me but I can see no resemblance to this situation.

Fine I am calm. My sincerest appologies Randy. I should have shot you a pm with my concerns.


They are beautiful snakes. All ball pythons are beautiful!!!! Its still not a black back! :D and if it has taken 4 years to get to 900 grams, and it hasn't eaten in 7 months... the likelyhood of it being ready to breed this next season is piss poor. Don't sugest otherwise! people will believe you!

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Originally Posted by mcavana

Fine I am calm. My sincerest appologies Randy. I should have shot you a pm with my concerns.


They are beautiful snakes. All ball pythons are beautiful!!!! Its still not a black back! :D and if it has taken 4 years to get to 900 grams, and it hasn't eaten in 7 months... the likelyhood of it being ready to breed this next season is piss poor. Don't sugest otherwise! people will believe you!

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Well I do have to disagree with you there. I personally have seen how much weight a female BP can gain. My own WC girl came in at around 1370 on 6/9/07 grams, she refused to eat for 3 months.

When she began to eat on 9/1/08, she weighed 1280. She weighed in at 1800 in Feb.

She gained close to 600 grams in 5 months. I have to say it is very doable for his female to gain weight in time.

Just sayin! ;)

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Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Well I do have to disagree with you there. I personally have seen how much weight a female BP can gain. My own WC girl came in at around 1370 on 6/9/07 grams, she refused to eat for 3 months.

When she began to eat on 9/1/08, she weighed 1280. She weighed in at 1800 in Feb.

She gained close to 600 grams in 5 months. I have to say it is very doable for his female to gain weight in time.

Just sayin! ;)

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Yeah, but how old was your girl? we are talking about a snake here that has taken 4 years to get to 900 grams! and it now refuses to eat!

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Originally Posted by mcavana

Yeah, but how old was your girl? we are talking about a snake here that has taken 4 years to get to 900 grams! and it now refuses to eat!

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No clue, she is WC. I guess her to be around 5-7 years of age just from her "look". My vet wasn't very sure either and concurred. Anyways, Randy's could just be a small specimen.

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Originally Posted by mcavana

Yeah, but how old was your girl? we are talking about a snake here that has taken 4 years to get to 900 grams! and it now refuses to eat!

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I keep my breeder males as close to 1000g as possible. They are all very healthy.

Well, this is my last reply on this one.

Randy, I am sorry. You have tought me something. In a situation like this going forward, I will either pm a mod, or pm the seller directly.

I am sure you will sell your snakes soon. they are very beautiful!

Peace out!

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and if it has taken 4 years to get to 900 grams, and it hasn't eaten in 7 months... The likelyhood of it being ready to breed this next season is piss poor. Don't sugest otherwise! people will believe you!

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I got her at a little under 1,000 grams. Keep in mind Ralph feeds his snakes somewhat conservatively, he is in no rush to breed 2-3 year old girls. Most of the girls in his vids are 8 or 10 yrs old. Take into account a 7 month fast and you are at 913 grams. When she starts eating (and at some point she will, snakes don't starve themselves), she would more than likely gain weight back quickly since she would use most of the food to build fat instead of just passing it as waste. Very possible to gain 500+ grams by October or whenever.

As for her not being black back, IMO she is. Apparently a lot of people agree with me. If you don't agree with me then that is fine, but no need to turn it into such a big deal.

And thanks Jas, Deb, and everyone else.:D It's nice to know you guys have my back.

Thanks for the apology. I accept and to be honest this little skirmish generated more interest in the ad than would have have happened otherwise;)

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Originally Posted by mcavana

You consider this a black back???!!!!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e3...tblackback.jpg

If so, I have some fantastic beach front property in Missouri I would love you to take a look at. It is a steal!

LOL, just kidding Joe... I can only assume we were not talking about the same thread.

Mike

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I think it resembles the examples of a black back...

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Originally Posted by Petboy15

Thanks for the apology. I accept and to be honest this little skirmish generated more interest in the ad than would have have happened otherwise;)

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LOL! Don't tell them our plan!!! :rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by mcavana

Fine I am calm. My sincerest appologies Randy. I should have shot you a pm with my concerns.


They are beautiful snakes. All ball pythons are beautiful!!!! Its still not a black back! :D and if it has taken 4 years to get to 900 grams, and it hasn't eaten in 7 months... the likelyhood of it being ready to breed this next season is piss poor. Don't sugest otherwise! people will believe you!

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Why are you apologizing then slamming him :confused:.If you dont think the snake looks like a BB then fine its YOUR opinion ;).Now back to the REAL reasons we come here :gj:

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Originally Posted by mcavana

Ok, call it a black back. Its not, but go ahead.

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I think it's funny you wouldn't call it one, but Ralph did when he sold it to Randy and Kara would. ;)

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Originally Posted by KLG

If that snake was in my collection I'd note it as a blackback or partial blackback...it has been used as a descriptive term for ball pythons for years, and most folks can recognize it.

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Originally Posted by mcavana

Ok, call it a black back. Its not, but go ahead.

Why does nobody have a problem with the description? It is a 2004 that weighs only 900 grams. It hasn't eaten in just under 7 months. He states multiple times that it should be ready to breed this next season... and that is the reason to buy it.

Do you think this is designed to get someone who knows what there doing interested? Or do you think it is trying to lure in a new bee without a clue that wants to breed balls and get rich?

I am sorry I did not contact this seller to start with. keep in mind, this thread was about general concerns... not just this very misleading thread.

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Mike, sorry but you cannot one on hand say it's not about one thread when you quite obviously did not show another example of a problem you see in the way our sales section works and where you use terms like "this very misleading thread" and "Ok, call it a black back. Its not, but go ahead."

You may not consider it a blackblack or a very good example of one but that is your opinion. You've stated as fact what is really only an opinion. That opinion is countered by the opinions of at least two major BP breeders.

You've made it seem that Randy has knowingly mislead other members in his ad. That's a pretty serious thing to accuse another member of. If it were a concern expressed in a general manner, but Mike you've literally picked his ad apart, challenged him on a number of issues on this snake and not given even one other example of another ad that bothers you. Quite honestly if you did that to anyone else here you probably aren't going to get the very balanced response you got from Randy.

If you had a concern, it should have been expressed to Randy. This sort of public ripping into someone about the snakes they sell is exactly why the sales threads are locked and questions about the sale, the snake in question, etc. are expected to be handled between the parties in a professional manner.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I think it's funny you wouldn't call it one, but Ralph did when he sold it to Randy and Kara would. ;)

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Please don't get me wrong. I realy like Ralph Davis. In fact, I even own one of his spiders. But that doesn't mean that everything he says is a fact.

I think it is funny how some of you follow so much in other peoples footsteps, that you sometimes don't even look up to see for yourselves....