2 Cornsnakes found dead :-(

Hi.

I just wanted to check my corns before i go to bed and found them both dead,they were fine like 7 hours before but now both are without eyes and their head look dried out.

How could something like this happen?

Their cages where not far next to each other,i also have a leopard gecko in that room and i hope he didn't get what they had.
Temps and hydro where ok.
One was on coconut shavings and the other on paper towels.

Please help me.

Their eyes are gone?

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Originally Posted by Patrick Long

Their eyes are gone?

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Yeah it looks like the only thing left in the head area is the skin,the rest looks normal.

Were you using a UTH?

Sounds like they were either overheated or dehydrated.

How are you measuring temps? What are the temps? Where are you measuring?

OMG :O I'm so sorry!!

That seems so strange. I am definitely interested to know what happened to them if you ever find out. I'm sorry that I have no answers for you.

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Originally Posted by BastianUSA

Hi.

I just wanted to check my corns before i go to bed and found them both dead,they were fine like 7 hours before but now both are without eyes and their head look dried out.

How could something like this happen?

Their cages where not far next to each other,i also have a leopard gecko in that room and i hope he didn't get what they had.
Temps and hydro where ok.
One was on coconut shavings and the other on paper towels.

Please help me.

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Are you sure...the temps and humidity were ok?

This seems very strange to me as Corn's are very well known for being a hardy snake. They can adjust to most temp fluctuatons.

How hot was your hot side and what was the humidity?

Also...did you leave a rodent in with hem to eat?

Corns...I should say snakes...don't typically just dry up and die.

I would like to know more about how you were housing them.

I am so sorry! I hope you found out what happened. Maybe an electrical surge caused overheating?

My condolences.

Ok so the tank was 10 gallons on both, one was heated with an UTH and the other with a lamp from above(50 watt 24 hour red light with lamp stand) both had a humidity at about 30-40% and sometmes a little higher(10 gallon made a few problems).
Temp was at around 88-89 degrees on the hot and 80-84 on the cooler side.
Water was always cleaned and there was no rodent in there,one was fed a few days before and ate good.
One was housed on coconut shavings and the other on paper towels.

That really sucks. So sorry to hear. I would contact a vet asap about a necropsy being done on them. It'll cost you, but if the temps and husbandry were good you don't want to be risking something contagious with other animals you might have or bring in.

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Originally Posted by BastianUSA

Ok so the tank was 10 gallons on both, one was heated with an UTH and the other with a lamp from above(50 watt 24 hour red light with lamp stand) both had a humidity at about 30-40% and sometmes a little higher(10 gallon made a few problems).
Temp was at around 88-89 degrees on the hot and 80-84 on the cooler side.
Water was always cleaned and there was no rodent in there,one was fed a few days before and ate good.
One was housed on coconut shavings and the other on paper towels.

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what were you controlling your temps with?

have you had a power outage...which could lead to a temp spike.

how were they acting when you checked on them earlier that day? Were they moving around? coiled up in a corner?

Also how long have you had them?

I would also have them taken into the vet for testing.

Those temps are way too warm for a corn. I aim for 80-82 on the warm side and about 8-10 degrees cooler on the other side. But even still, if they were that warm they probably would have gone to the cooler side, which even at 84º, should not have fried them. But if there was a heat spike or something, that could have done it.

Do you have pictures of them you could post? Might help in determining if they did, in fact, get fried or dehydrated.

A fifty watt bulb on a 10 gallon tank will give you a hot spot directly underneath the bulb of about 95 to 100 degrees, possibly more.

I don't recall seeing what you were using for bedding but my guess is you cooked these guys. With a UTH pad you need at least a couple of inches of bedding above it and you don't need more than 25 watts with a corn in a ten gallon tank.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

A fifty watt bulb on a 10 gallon tank will give you a hot spot directly underneath the bulb of about 95 to 100 degrees, possibly more.

I don't recall seeing what you were using for bedding but my guess is you cooked these guys. With a UTH pad you need at least a couple of inches of bedding above it and you don't need more than 25 watts with a corn in a ten gallon tank.

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Originally Posted by BastianUSA

One was on coconut shavings and the other on paper towels.

Please help me.

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Originally Posted by blueapplepaste

Those temps are way too warm for a corn.

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way too warm?

:confused:

I think it is a lil warm but not way.



My question is if it was too hot from the overhead light (a def possibility) then how did it kill both corns housed in seperate tanks at the same time on the same day?


I would also like to see pics if you have any.

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Originally Posted by MeMe

way too warm?

:confused:

I think it is a lil warm but not way.



My question is if it was too hot from the overhead light (a def possibility) then how did it kill both corns housed in seperate tanks at the same time on the same day?


I would also like to see pics if you have any.

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I second that. It just doesn't make sense that this could happen to two different snakes, in two different enclosures, with two different types of heat sources. Logically it is illogical unless we're missing a piece of the puzzle.

I just find it strange their eyes were gone...

I guess that "eyes gone" might really be eyes that were so dehydrated and sunk in that they looked gone? I don't think I've ever seen a dead dehydrated snake, so I don't know if the eyes would be so sunk in to appear gone.

I'd really be curious to know what happened as well. I hope you figure it out!

When any animal dessicates, the eyes do shrink into the body, as the interocular and vitreous fluid evaporates. If you've ever seen a dried fish before....

It happens in people too...

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

When any animal dessicates, the eyes do shrink into the body, as the vitrious fluid evaporates. If you've ever seen a dried fish before....

It happens in people too...

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I had a tiny long tailed lizard a few years ago that died 24 hours after I brought him home, and his eyes appeared to be gone, but upon close inspection you could see that the eyes were there but sunken in and dried out completely.

The eyes dry up and sink in within a few hours. I've seen it happen on quite a few animals, unfortunately. Nothing in my own personal collection, but various sick animals at places I've worked.

Well now that we've solved the disappearing eye mystery anyone have any guesses as to the cause of death?

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Originally Posted by MeMe

way too warm?

:confused:

I think it is a lil warm but not way.



My question is if it was too hot from the overhead light (a def possibility) then how did it kill both corns housed in seperate tanks at the same time on the same day?


I would also like to see pics if you have any.

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The temps were almost 10 degrees above ideal temps; maybe not way warm, but more than lil warm. Regardless, its just semantics. The temps are too warm for a cornsnake, but not warm enough to completely fry it like appears to happen. The whole thing seems off; something seems to be missing though...

I have to ask the obvious question. Did these snakes have water?

It does kinda seem like something is missing here. But I do have a couple of questions....

Would the snakes have to be too hot either at death or afterwards for their eyes and heads to have sunken in/ looked dehydrated, or could this happen after death at the temps that he had in the tanks?

I'm just wondering if it was a possible temp spike that lasted for some time since the OP posted that "they were fine 7 hours before" (paraphrasing here). Maybe a lengthy temp spike happened while he didn't see, although would this lead to death in the same way to both snakes in different set ups?

Or, if they could have "dehydrated" under the temps that he listed, maybe their was another cause of death unrelated to temps??

To the OP... how long have you had these corns, how old were they, and did they come from the same breeder/place? I'm just very curious as to what happened....

Are they near a window where the evening sun could have shown onto the glass enclosure bumping up the temps pretty high?

Pictures would be absolutely amazing.

Ohhhhhh, I really like the sun shining in the tank scenario.

I like Sunny1's questions. How long have you had them? Are they from the same source? Contact that source right away and let them know. It is odd that both died with different substrates and heat sources.

I don't know if I missed something, but MeMe did ask how the UTH's were controlled, and what was used to measure the temps. Two uncontrolled UTH's would both reach equally high temperatures at the same time if plugged into the same source.

Even if it were dehydration... i just don't see how it happened in 2 seperate tanks on the same day within 7 hours of the op seeing them alive and well.

:oops:

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Originally Posted by missi182

I don't know if I missed something, but MeMe did ask how the UTH's were controlled, and what was used to measure the temps. Two uncontrolled UTH's would both reach equally high temperatures at the same time if plugged into the same source.

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I believe one tank used a heat lamp and the other a uth.

Just a few posts I found that made me go....hmmm.

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Originally Posted by BastianUSA

Hi.

My baby corn(3-4 month) isn't eating since 3 weeks now,whenever i try to give him a pinkie he doesn't eat it.
I give him about 1 hour to eat it before i take it away.
I feed live and in a seperate container.
He was a good eater before that.

What can i do?

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Originally Posted by BastianUSA

Both male in a 100Gal. the other one is bigger(about 8 month old) but never had any problems with feeding.
And i feed them seperate of course.

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Originally Posted by BastianUSA

Sorry sorry it's just a 50Gal. tank.

OK then i have to buy some extra UTH's cause i allready have all the toher stuff.
I try it and let you guys know.

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Originally Posted by BastianUSA

Hi.

My Cornsnake just got bitten by an adult mouse while feeding.
Now it has a little wound right on the neck behind the neck which is bleeding a little bit.
What should i do to keep it from getting infected?

THX

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Originally Posted by BastianUSA

Ok,i could not clean it completly cause he just swallowed the mouse and i didn't want to put him under too much stress,but i cleaned it a little bit and put neosporin without pain killers on it.
But normally he likes to dig himself in after feeding,isn't that harmfull?
I use coconut shavings as beeding.

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Originally Posted by BastianUSA

Hi.

My new Cornsnake got in shed 2-3 days ago and burrowed under her hide,so i left her alone.
Today i wanted to feed her and saw that she was partially shed and had a big black clump on her right side in the back area of her tail stuck between old and new skin.
I soaked her in warm water and tried to remove all old shed and that black spot,a little flesh tore out with old skind and that brown stuff.
Now all i want to know is if this is only a flesh wound or if they have anything important in that area that may be damaged?
We go to the vet anyway tom. but i can't really sleep without knowing.
And we moved her to a quarantine tank and treated her with neosporin without painkillers.
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...A/IMG_1254.jpg
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...A/IMG_1255.jpg

THX for your help,and i know i am an idiot for not checking her a few days.

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It seems there has always been problems.

:oops:

I think your right Meme....there is some underlying causes here, that he is not explaining now, but has explained previously.

Could be that the UTH was always too hot, caused the wound we saw pics of and may have been the cause of death on that one.

I was off on my earlier estimates on wattage. I use 50 watt lights on my sand boas in 10 gal tanks sometimes and the temps get 105 or more. With the 25 they get up to 95.

One hot day with temps like that, with or without sunlight hitting the tank, and you could have a dead snake. That would also account for the dehydrated eyes.

and it has been EXTREMELY hot these past few days!

I've killed a snake before by having it's tank in the sun even tho the top of the tank was slotted! It only took 2 hrs...and the tank was inside with the air running :( It was a little Garter snake we found in the yard and we had gone to the pet store to buy some things for it. We've never made the mistake of putting a snake in the sun again....this was a long time ago.

While I think this is very sad I found odd that 2 healthy snakes house in two separate enclosures would die in the same circumstances at the same time.

This should really make you question your husbandry techniques.

Have you considered having a necropsy done to found out what really happened, and maybe help you prevent the same thing from happening again in the future.

I have to wonder about 'outside influences' like cleaners, air fresheners, bug fumigation (bombs etc.), liquid fertilizer on the lawn etc. The odds of having them both die at the same time from keeping errors in separate tanks are astronomical at best, the odds of something in the air or tanks themselves (cleaners, bleach) makes more sense to me. Just a thought...

Wow.

To the OP, I am so sorry this happened.

There do seem to be some underlying problems - we can't see the whole picture. Sorry if you feel overwhelmed by all these comments, but we are just concerned for your snakes. I hope you can figure out what happened and how to fix it for the future before investing in more snakes.

Good luck.

Ok,so you where right the snakes got to hot,a lot played into it and they where not controlled with a thermometer and the the outside temps where over a 100(39 celsius to be exact).
So i really have to say it was my own fault and i messed up.
to the other posts:

The 50 watt was on a lamp stand and like 4 inches away from the screen top.

Yes the baby corn got burned before on a UTH but i got her to the vet and all healed up nice and thats why one of them was heated by a lamp.

The mouse bite was no bite but a little scratch from the mouses foot.
And it was on a different snake.

to the not eating:
I kept two cornsnakes together for like 2 month but then decided to keep each one sperate.
after that he ate fine again there were no more eating problems.

My other 2 Snakes are fine btw and are now run by a zoo med rheostat.
(they are in a different room which doesn't get so much sunlight.)

I guess i learned the hard way and believe me i feel sad about it,so please don't see me as a bad person that doesn't take care of his pets.

So now flame away.

You realized your mistakes and admitted to having made them... who would flame you for that? If you had denied everything or started screaming about it, then people could and would flame you.

SO sorry for your losses, but at least now you know better what to do. I lost my Pacman frog from neglect due to too little knowledge, so I know how it feels. Just make sure you learn from it and things should be A-Ok. :)

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Originally Posted by Argentra

You realized your mistakes and admitted to having made them... who would flame you for that? If you had denied everything or started screaming about it, then people could and would flame you.

SO sorry for your losses, but at least now you know better what to do. I lost my Pacman frog from neglect due to too little knowledge, so I know how it feels. Just make sure you learn from it and things should be A-Ok. :)

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Yeah but i still feel bad cause it is my fault they died.

Well as much as it may suck. I guess this was a lesson learned in your case. A positive thing is, it can give us a glimpse on things not to do or things to make sure to constantly check on with our snakes. We appreciate the fact you came out and asked us questions or possible reasons. You found the answer out yourself and had no problem admitting that it was your mistake and you will be aware from now on.

Hope all goes well. Give them a proper burial and hopefully something positive can come out of this.:)

Oh I know... if you didn't feel bad there would be something wrong. I felt Terrible when my Pacman died just because I didn't know what I was doing... But the feeling bad will help make sure you don't do anything like that again, at least. *Comfort*

If I ever flame you, you'll be singed.

Also, I have yet, in a few hundred years of snake keeping, to see a mouses nail damage a snakes skin.

I suppose, since all things are possible, that it could have happened, but I seriously doubt it.

Good luck on your next snakes, you'll do better.

I understand the feeling of guilt. But I am glad you came for help and that you found out what happened. Sorry for your loss.

As an aside, there are tons of snakes that need rescue - go to petfinder.com and give some a new home. Maybe that will help you and the snakes. Just a thought.

Good luck in the future.

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Originally Posted by MelissaFlipski

As an aside, there are tons of snakes that need rescue - go to petfinder.com and give some a new home. Maybe that will help you and the snakes.

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I am sorry but I strongly disagree.

He has lost 2 snakes due to 'not knowing'. I don't think he should get anymore animals until he does his research and learns how to properly care for them. There were obviously some husbandry issues and why should another animal die due to 'not knowing'.

I am not saying he should not ever own another snake..I just think a lil time and research first.

just my .02

I agree with others. Pick up a copy of Kathy Love's cornsnake book and read it cover to cover. Then get your tank set up and just let it "run" for several weeks to make sure that everything is in 100% order. Then, and only then would I suggest another snake. Just don't be in a hurry, what's another month or two of learning and getting things right if it means 15+ years with a healthy, happy snake?

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by MeMe

I am sorry but I strongly disagree.

He has lost 2 snakes due to 'not knowing'. I don't think he should get anymore animals until he does his research and learns how to properly care for them. There were obviously some husbandry issues and why should another animal die due to 'not knowing'.

I am not saying he should not ever own another snake..I just think a lil time and research first.

just my .02

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I agree 100% that he needs a deeper understanding of husbandry and the species he wants to keep. I didn't mean otherwise.

I think he said he has two other snakes.

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Originally Posted by python.princess

I think he said he has two other snakes.

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Yes but I wouldn't suggest the op going out and looking for more.


:oops: