Best First Colubrid - Suggestions Please!

OK, we have a ball python, Kenyan sand boa, rosy boa, jungle carpet python, and temporary rehab black rat snake. I decided we need a colubrid in our collection once the black rat is released.

Since I can't have an indigo, what should I get? I want docile, intelligent, and lots of personality. Size doesn't matter too much - but I'd like it in the 3' to 8' range. Looks don't matter a bit (coloring).

Suggestions? Thanks!

Well Melissa of course I'm going to say an Albino Nelson's Milksnake LOL. I'm sure you've seen pictures on this forum of my daughter's Milk named Emi.

Nelson's tend to be a slow growing Milksnake that does end up a nice size but not huge. They are known for their docile personalities and if handled nicely as babies rarely nip or musk. Emi hasn't ever nipped, never hissed and only musked us twice when she was a tiny noodle baby. She participates in snake shows all the time, is easily handled by anyone and has the same ease of care as a cornsnake does. The only issue is they are escape artists so Emi has multiple metal lid clips on her 20 L enclosure. A 20 L is a perfect size for her and likely will do her whole life (she started out in a 10).

Lastly, she's simply gorgeous. Tangerine/blood orange stripes on a white background with thin stripes that look like someone marked her with a yellow highlighter pen. Crazy cute orange eyes and an orange flickering tongue. How can you not love that LOL.

Another option if you like Indigo's is the Black Milksnake. They start out life as a tri-colored baby and gradually change to a beautiful black adult. They are one of the biggest of the Milks and one of the few snakes where the male outsizes the female. We're looking forward to adding a Black Milk to our own collection some day. :)

CORNS!! Corns all the way! :D

Seriously, these guys are super easy to care for (comparatively), are generally very sweet, and have great variety of color morphs to choose from. :)

Other great choices would be Milksnakes (I agree that the Black and Nelson's are awesome, but I add the Sinaloan and Tri-color Honduran to that list), and the Cali, King.

my first colubrid was my hognose. ive had him for about a month. i love him him.great personality, great feeding response. he is about 5 inches but he thinks he is 15 feet.

California Kingsnake, Honduran Milksnake etc

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Well Melissa of course I'm going to say an Albino Nelson's Milksnake LOL. I'm sure you've seen pictures on this forum of my daughter's Milk named Emi.

Nelson's tend to be a slow growing Milksnake that does end up a nice size but not huge. They are known for their docile personalities and if handled nicely as babies rarely nip or musk. Emi hasn't ever nipped, never hissed and only musked us twice when she was a tiny noodle baby. She participates in snake shows all the time, is easily handled by anyone and has the same ease of care as a cornsnake does. The only issue is they are escape artists so Emi has multiple metal lid clips on her 20 L enclosure. A 20 L is a perfect size for her and likely will do her whole life (she started out in a 10).

Lastly, she's simply gorgeous. Tangerine/blood orange stripes on a white background with thin stripes that look like someone marked her with a yellow highlighter pen. Crazy cute orange eyes and an orange flickering tongue. How can you not love that LOL.
)

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gets my vote! they are awesome looking, reasonably priced too.

mexican black milk, because they are a joy to handle and get to a satisfying size

I have to go with Corn also. My corn is over 10 years old and is a fine example of a docile good looking snake IMHO

I would recommend a Kingsnake, they are very hardy and easy to care for.

Pick me Melissa! Pick me!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2.../EmiJan072.jpg

:D

I have no colubrids but I am always tempted to get a Pueblan Milk Snake every time that I see one.

i second the albino milk snake from my experience they are very calmsnakes. i love how gopher and bull snakes look but the one i have is SATAN lmao

I'm partial to my luecistic texas rat snakes. They are gorgeous and sweet to handle once they get used to you.

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z...oose/Pissy.jpg

:D

I'm partial to Honduran Milksnakes

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...s/Albino02.jpg

I will agree that corns are awesome snakes to own. My corn makes me laugh on a daily basis. He is such a joy to watch, super docile, and extremely easy to take care of. From my experience with kings, I have known them to be pretty nippy and averse to being disturbed, but I have also heard people who say they are quite calm, so who knows.

The best thing about corns (and maybe other colubrids too) is that the morphs are so much cheaper than balls and other boids. My corn is a really nice morph and I bought him for $40 at a reptile show.

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Originally Posted by Blu Mongoose

I'm partial to my luecistic texas rat snakes. They are gorgeous and sweet to handle once they get used to you.

http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z...oose/Pissy.jpg

:D

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What a gorgeous snake!! I love all white colubrids. :gj:

Oh I agree... white and yellow are the best snaky colors. That is the first rat snake I've seen that hasn't had bug-eyes. :) VERY pretty snakes, everyone.

So many choices and so few enclosures! Oh my, whatever will I do? They are all so beautiful!

I do feel partial to rat snakes b/c of the guy I have now in rehab. That leucistic is fantastic. And the milks are so great, too. Nuts! Are there any other pros like diurnal species, not too fast to escape from my hands, "display" snakes, social snakes, etc.? I was also waiting for Jack S. to chime in about African house snakes or something.

I guess I'll have to explore all these choices in person at the next reptile show.

PS My husband just became a trucker. He'll be home a lot less. How many times do you than I can pull a "just one more"?

I have only kept one colubrid but I loves my orangey boy. =)

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n...enson_hib3.jpg

As a baby, the corn wasn't as much fun as he is now - way too squirmy and fast - but now that he's getting bigger, he's calming down a bit. So - dang - easy to care for and he's got the greatest facial expressions!

My daughter has a baby corn that we are absolutely loving. Corns come in so many pretty morphs, and you can get almost any corn morph very inexpensively. That is the only colubrid I've owned to be able to speak from experience, but there are many more that interest me.

I'm partial to Cali Kings since I grew up in So. Cali and used to see them in the wild. California Mountain Kings are a different species, but they are gorgeous tri-colors.

Since you say you are partial to rat snakes, maybe one of the interesting colored ones? Everglades rats are pretty orangey yellowy things. I've seen pics on KS of a few black rat morphs, brindle and white-sided, which are both really pretty to me.

Don't overlook the asian rat snakes! I'm in love with them! I don't know which one(s) I'll end up with, but they are definitely on my must have someday list. I'm sure you've seen posts of Jack Spirko's Tai (Taiwan Beauty) and Medusa Owl's Ma-tsu and Neptune (Vietnamese Blue Beauties).

Here's an idea, don't worry about which one to get first! Just go to your next local show and get one of each! :D:D:D

A western Hognose. They all have great personality (there is no other snake in the hobby that does what they do), look beautiful (the normals are great, but you should see the albinos), and are really easy to get (at an expo at least. They're practically inexistent in pet stores for some reason even though they were one of the 5 snakes widely available 25 years ago). Males grow really small (rarely exceeding 20 inches) but females grow up to 30 inches (and are much more stockier than most other 30-inch snakes). You could basically call the Western Hognose snake the "Colubrid double" of the Kenyan Sand Boa.

EDIT: Man, besides for DSGB and I, no one mentioned Hoggers! I'm glad I got this post through.

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Originally Posted by Onua Nuva

EDIT: Man, besides for DSGB and I, no one mentioned Hoggers! I'm glad I got this post through.

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lol i noticed also. maybe people are scared of there terrifying hissing and random sticking. lol.

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Originally Posted by DSGB

lol i noticed also. maybe people are scared of there terrifying hissing and random sticking. lol.

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It's better to get harmlessly hissed at than to get bitten, right? What some people (don't worry, I'm not referring to you, DSGB) don't get is that HOGNOSE SNAKES DON'T BITE. They hiss (which can be startling, freaky, and cute at the same time) instead of biting when they're scared. Hoggers are probably the safest snakes ever to be introduced to captivity since they don't bite in defense. BTW, what do you mean by "random sticking"?

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Originally Posted by cassandra

I have only kept one colubrid but I loves my orangey boy. =)

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Very pretty! Orange does look good on snakes, doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by kc261

Don't overlook the asian rat snakes! I'm in love with them! I don't know which one(s) I'll end up with, but they are definitely on my must have someday list. I'm sure you've seen posts of Jack Spirko's Tai (Taiwan Beauty) and Medusa Owl's Ma-tsu and Neptune (Vietnamese Blue Beauties).

Here's an idea, don't worry about which one to get first! Just go to your next local show and get one of each! :D:D:D

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Yes, I've seen them. There is a Taiwan Beauty waiting to be rescued about 1 1/2 from here... but he is already a nice 8'. I might need one that I can grow with. But maybe not.

As for getting one of each, it would be my dream. But alas, one at a time is the only way I'm sneaking all these guys in. (LOL, at first I wrote "snakeing" them in.)

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Originally Posted by DSGB

lol i noticed also. maybe people are scared of there terrifying hissing and random sticking. lol.

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Hissing could be entertaining. Too bad they lose the playing dead game with handling. That would be neat to show a bunch of kids at a reptile education presentation. I wonder, too, what is "random sticking"?

Also, I liked the comment about hoggies being "colubrid equivalent of kenyan sand boas." I have a KSB myself. I did notice how striking hoggies can be at the last show I was at.

My problem is that I love all animals. I fell in love with a Choco blue (bird) front the other day at an independent pet store. What personality!

Thank you all so much for the comments and pictures! Keep 'em coming!

random striking. sorry im dumb and cant spell. when my guy hisses he strikes in random directions, never going for me. he is all bluff.

Personally, I'm still waiting for Jack S. to chime in about black milksnakes. He's responsible for the fact that I own one! :D

My first colubrid was a hoggie.

However, my favorite colubrids are drys.

While an indigo runs a high price tag, the black tail cribo is much more affordable. I picked up my female for around $250.

A cb melanurus is as handleable as any indigo and make excellent captives. They are not inclined to bite, are excellent eaters and like all drymarchon, are extremely interactive animals. As far as intelligence goes - cribos are at the top.

I have two young children and have about as much trust as I can have in any reptile with the melanurus in terms of interacting with the kids.

The only downsides - two. They are messy and require frequent cage cleaning. However, I look at this as an excuse to spend some additonal handling time with them. Second, they require large enclosures. Other than that, they are perhaps one of the most rewarding reptiles to own.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

My first colubrid was a hoggie.

However, my favorite colubrids are drys.

While an indigo runs a high price tag, the black tail cribo is much more affordable. I picked up my female for around $250.

A cb melanurus is as handleable as any indigo and make excellent captives. They are not inclined to bite, are excellent eaters and like all drymarchon, are extremely interactive animals. As far as intelligence goes - cribos are at the top.

I have two young children and have about as much trust as I can have in any reptile with the melanurus in terms of interacting with the kids.

The only downsides - two. They are messy and require frequent cage cleaning. However, I look at this as an excuse to spend some additonal handling time with them. Second, they require large enclosures. Other than that, they are perhaps one of the most rewarding reptiles to own.

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Thank you. I'd forgotten about cribos being compared to indigos. The black rat is messy, too, so I know what you mean. I have to change out his towel/sheet about 3x a week. How large of an enclosure do these guys need?

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Originally Posted by MelissaFlipski

Thank you. I'd forgotten about cribos being compared to indigos. The black rat is messy, too, so I know what you mean. I have to change out his towel/sheet about 3x a week. How large of an enclosure do these guys need?

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They can be started off in a large rack. Ultimately, an adult will need at least a 6' long enclosure. I use 6' cages attached to a smaller 2' square box via a section of pipe to simulate an underground den.

I second the black milksnake (Lampropeltis triangulum gaigeae) nomination...they are simply fabulous snakes! Big, beautiful, easy keepers with great personality. LOVE them!

What about an Old World rat snake ?

I don´t know if these are easy to find in the US, but if you want a "different" colubrid as regards the behavior, go for the Russian (or Amur) Ratsnake - Elaphe schrencki schrencki. (please note that it´s not a Korean ratsnake; sometimes they get mixed up)

This is the one I´m talking about
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/4...chrenckwk4.jpg

The only known morphs are "high yellow" (instead of the cream) and melanistic

The are totally diurnal - that´s good for a change ! - very inquisite - no fear - and very docile

This all combined prvides you with a snake that crawls out of the enclosure by herself to your arm when you open it.

Diurnal, semi-arboreal, up to 6` (record of 8`) and quite different.

I found this caresheet: http://www.reptilecareforum.co.uk/in...p?showtopic=87

That Russian rat snake looks interesting!

It sort of reminds me of the tiger rat snake, spilotes pullatus (I think), from South America.

Cali King all the way! They can be mean little guys when they are young, but with frequent handling, they are great little snakes.

Heres my little guy - I was thinking of naming him weiner but I don't know yet:)

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/m...2/DSCF0579.jpg

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Originally Posted by kc261

It sort of reminds me of the tiger rat snake, spilotes pullatus (I think), from South America.

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Casey

The Spilotes pullatus is also a fantastic snake, but I don´t think it´s a goos first colubrid.
It´s very agressive and very quick, also. Not "handable" - at leats, not easy to handle - and with 10´+..

But it looks a bit like the Russian rat, I agree

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Originally Posted by JoMo

The Spilotes pullatus is also a fantastic snake, but I don´t think it´s a goos first colubrid.
It´s very agressive and very quick, also. Not "handable" - at leats, not easy to handle - and with 10´+..

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Thanks for pointing this out! I know very little about the tiger rat snake, other than that they are pretty! which is why I didn't mention them in my first post in this thread.

Also, as a caution to anyone truly new to snakes who may read this thread: Melissa (the OP) hasn't owned a colubrid other than the black rat she is rehabbing, but she has owned several snakes for a while now. So some of the recommendations made to her for a "first colubrid", may not be as appropriate for a "first snake". As always, do your research!

Black milk....My guy is great, ALWAYS eats, always sheds in one piece, I've had him about 6 months now and hes been so easy...i've never gotten musked or anything and they're from high altitudes so a lot of additional heating isn't necessary (if my guy's hot end gets over 80 he'll usually go to the cold side)...All around great snake.

JoMo is right on with the Russian rat, described them perfectly. If you like the black rat Melissa, I think a Russian would be the way to go. If you happen to decide on a Russian I may be able to help you find one.

John

I asked for advice and boy did I get it! I love it! So much to think about.

The russian rat does look intriguing. And what's this about a 10' colubrid. Boy, got my interest on that one, too! We have a jungle carpet python, so juvenile aggression isn't a biggie as long as it can be a sweetheart adult.

Thanks, guys! You always come through for me!

Yeah there are a few colubrids that get over 10 ft. I have two babies that will get over 10 ft, a tiger rat and a blue beauty. I wouldn't count on them being sweetheart adults though. Both of these were born in summer 07.
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...e/DSC03868.jpg
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...e/DSC04036.jpg
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r...y/DSC04167.jpg
Other colubrids that get over 10 ft are Ptyas carinatus (keeled rat snake), Drymarchon corais (yellowtail cribo), Pseustes sulphureus (giant bird snake), etc.

John

Wow! Thanks for the pics, John.

The Taiwan Beauties tend to be very docile, though right? The Russian rat looks interesting, but not sure I'm ready for a snake needing brumation. These others don't if I am not breeding, do they?

More research! Thanks, everyone!

The don´t "need" brumation. Unless you want to breed
A friend of mine has a few for some years and only brumates when he wants to breed them

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Originally Posted by JoMo

The don´t "need" brumation. Unless you want to breed
A friend of mine has a few for some years and only brumates when he wants to breed them

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The care sheet that you provided says that if they go off feed in winter to brumate in order to prevent them from losing weight. Does your friend never have this problem?

All I know is that I have a long list of things to hold at the next show!! Boy, I can't wait!!!

They brumate in the nature so I believe that is why the caresheet reflects that also. Bu my friend never brumated his and as long as you keep some temperature, they continue feeding normally.

I keep a lot of colubrids and I would definitely go with the corn. The reason I would go with a corn first is because you specified that it be docile. Whereas 99%+ of my corns are easily handleable and will calm down quickly without biting, I have a much lower percentage of kings/milks that will do that. I do have a lot of docile milk and king snakes, but I've also got a few that will bite like little demons and crap and musk all over you. You really can't tell what personality type you'll be getting until you've already bought it. While you might get lucky with a mellow king or milk right off the bat, I think you have a better chance at a good mellow personality in a corn.

Mark

I would say corn or hognose. i was gonna say a taiwanise beauty but you already said you didnt have the room for it.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I keep a lot of colubrids and I would definitely go with the corn. The reason I would go with a corn first is because you specified that it be docile. Whereas 99%+ of my corns are easily handleable and will calm down quickly without biting, I have a much lower percentage of kings/milks that will do that. I do have a lot of docile milk and king snakes, but I've also got a few that will bite like little demons and crap and musk all over you. You really can't tell what personality type you'll be getting until you've already bought it. While you might get lucky with a mellow king or milk right off the bat, I think you have a better chance at a good mellow personality in a corn.

Mark

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Hey, Hoggers are docile too Mark! What's your opinion about them?

Wanting to be different always I have a few suggestions and none are all that advanced, indeed with what you already keep you should be fine with any of them.

1. Black Milk - given you would like an indigo this is pretty close and much less expensive and less clean up.

2. Red Tail Green Rat - Beautiful, just pay the extra money for Captive Bred, at least Captive Hatched. WC and usually full of parasites and even if treated they are pretty mean.

3. Madagascar Cat Eyed Snake - Just look at one, that is enough. They are very docile too.

4. Lucy Rats (Texas or Black) are beautiful, inexpensive and bullet proof from a care stand point.

5. Leopard Rats - Expensive yes, worth the cost, IMHO Yes!

6. Trinkets - One cool snake and dirt cheap (because they can have 5 cluthes a season :O )

7. Beauties - Be they Blue or Tai or what have you. All rock and most are not tough to work with, they tend not to be the best "handling" snakes though. Mine has never bitten but he is constantly going and now like 8 feet.

8. Trans-Pecos Rat - Highly over looked and very easy to care for and really cool looking.

9. Bairds Rat Snake - see trans-pecos above

10. Black Pine Snake - They get really big, they are really cool and not everyone has one. Oh yea and some of em hiss, impressive but the whole bark is worse then the bite thing applies.

Hope that helps,

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Originally Posted by Onua Nuva

Hey, Hoggers are docile too Mark! What's your opinion about them?

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I've only had a couple of hognose, and they were fun but with a VERY strong feeding response so I always had to be real careful when first opening their tubs. My female would follow a mouse on tongs across the floor with her mouth gaping open. It was pretty funny. Also when I held her for any length of time she would go real limp. Like she was trying to do that famous hognose feigning death thing but only half heartedly.

I should get some more hog noses, they were a hoot.

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Originally Posted by Monty

I would say corn or hognose. i was gonna say a taiwanise beauty but you already said you didnt have the room for it.

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Actually, I prefer larger over smaller, but just want to have a chance to "grow with them" so I can inch my way into that. We have the space. We might just need to get rid of more junk as we add snakes. Less clutter, more snakes. I like. :D

Thanks, Jack, you always pull through for me! I'll add them to my list. I did see a picture of a red tail green rat and it was nice looking! How fast is your Tai? Is he always on the move or does he ever just sit and "snuggle"? Also, did you see my thread on exotic animals petting zoo? Just wondering what you think - I know you do the whole kid education bit.

Mark, I don't mind nippy, grumpy, or whatever in a juvenile. I just want one that can be tamed down into a calm adult. I think all the suggestions so far are good ones. Hopefully, I would pick up whatever I get in person and can try to gauge personality in some small way. And if I get it young, hopefully, it will mellow out. But it's true, there's no guarantee!

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Originally Posted by jjspirko

3. Madagascar Cat Eyed Snake - Just look at one, that is enough. They are very docile too.

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"... mildly venemous..." Like the other one I loved - the Rufous Beaked. :D