Feeding in a separate tank?

We've heard that we should be feeding our BP in a different tank to the one it lives in so that it doesn't learn to associate movement in its regular everyday tank with food. This is apparently to maintain its docile nature.

We've also read that the snake should not be handled for 48 hours after feeding.

Is it okay to handle it just enough to move it from the feeding tank to the regular tank?

Thanks.

- judiilana:mouse2::snake2:

It is a myth that a snake fed inside its container will mistake the keeper for food. Think it through: How would people manage this if they had several snakes? How could I do it with 13 balls and 3 boas; not to mention the huge breeders with hundreds and hundreds of snakes.
You do not need to change the location of your snake for feeding. Really. :D

True, it isn't necessary to move them. I used to, but have found it a lot easier, and less stressful on the snakes, to leave them in their home enclosures. I do move my baby corn, but that's just because I don't want her getting any substrate in her mouth since she's so small.

A good way to 'teach' your snake the difference between feeding day and other days is to pre-scent the room at least half an hour before feeding. That way, when they smell/see the prey they know it's time to eat and expect food. Otherwise, they just accept the hand. It's worked so far for me and has worked time and again for others, including large breeders. :)

Wow this info goes against all that I was told on here before. So... now what do I do. :confused::weirdface

People succuessfully do both methods, choose a method that you feel comfortable with; but know that the association tid bit is false. I personally leave all my snakes in their home enclosures and have no problems with that method. I think that handling a snake right after it eats to move it from the feeding enclosure to the home enclosure is a needless stressor.

I strongly agree with keeping a ball in his/her enclosure - so that the need to be handled right after a meal to be returned to the enclosure is eliminated, and the animal has the security of his/her home to "hunt" the prey from. It is a myth that your bp will associate your hands with food during handling if you feed inside the enclosure, unless you smell like rats. If anything you are more likely to get bit moving a bp (in my opinion) after it has eaten, because it is still in hunt mode.

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Originally Posted by WaRocker

Wow this info goes against all that I was told on here before. So... now what do I do. :confused::weirdface

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I dont know what you heard before but the majority of people with many years experience dont move a Ball python to feed and dont handle for 48 hours after a meal.

Pretty basic stuff.

I do both and see no differences between the two... The reason I feed outside the enclosure is 1.I get great feeding responses from my snakes the second they get in the feeding tub. Theres no if, ands, or buts about it when they get in there they are ready to eat! 2. It gives me time to clean their cages and what not. I can vouch that it is quite time consuming to take each snake out to feed them but I do 2 at a time so its usually 2hrs every thursday to feed. Other people have stated their concerns for why they choose not to feed in a separate enclosure but speaking from experience I have to say they are about as true as the feeding your snake in its tub myth. I live and die by the phrase if it aint broke dont try to fix it so as long as I feed FT I will continue to feed in a separate feeding tub... Come this winter when I get my own place and start breeding my own rats Ill probably just feed inside their enclosures.

In the end its all what works for you and your snake. Its more important that your snake eats not where it eats.

<----------------26 snakes fed in their enclosure weekly, no aggression and no missing fingers :8:

Feeding a snake in his enclosure does not make him more aggressive or mistakes your hand for food.

Feeding outside the enclosure will not make your BP more docile, feeding outside the enclosure can cause enough stress to lead to a refusal, it also will put you at more risks for a bite when placing your BP back in his enclosure (Moving a BP in feeding mode is not a good idea :colbert:)

Bottom line do what you are comfortable with, but do not do it based on a myth!

Substitute 1 myth with 2 ... good advice ;)

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Other people have stated their concerns for why they choose not to feed in a separate enclosure but speaking from experience I have to say they are about as true as the feeding your snake in its tub myth.

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So are you going to argue that handling a snake immediately after it eats is not stressful? Is regurgitation a myth too?

Yes you are correct I am calling it a myth... Ive fed all my snakes except 1 every week for 2 yrs outside thier enclosure with 0 bites, 0 regurges... Actually let me correct myself... I was bit twice but that was right after I put them in the tub and was pulling my hand away(before being fed). It takes .2 seconds to pick the snake up and gently put it in its cage. As far as handling after feeding... picking them up to put them back in their tub is not handling in my book so yes I agree you should not handle 48hrs after feeding.

My problem with her response is she gets all flared up when she reads someone post that myth but shes going to mention two other myths? Even worse is she doesnt even feed outside the enclosure so how would she know? I speak from my 2 yrs of experience... No its not 40yrs and no I dont have 100+ snakes but its experience none the less.

Just like people who feed inside the tub get bothered by that myth I get bothered by the myths of feeding outside the enclosure. Both can be done correctly and both can be done incorrectly... neither is superior to the other and as well all keep mentioning its not how/where you feed but that your snake eats.

i feed my girl in a separate enclosure and although she's only a yearling she has yet to refuse a meal for me that way. i always make sure her environment is well prescented and that the room is dark so she feel secure. I feed F/T so i leave her in there for 10-20 mins and come back when i feel she should be done. that gives me time to clean her tub and change her water, etc without disturbing her. I give her 24 hours or more before handling her again unless its absolutely necessary (ie, she's tipped her water bowl or something).

i did try feeding her in her enclosure a few times but she would get a little snappy. this was NOT because she was associating me opening her lid with getting fed. it was because she could still smell the rat because the scent had gotten all over everything in her enclosure. I dont always use the same substrate so
depending on the substrate i will definitely remove her.

keepers have been doing both successfully for decades, do what you think you'd be more comfortable with. :)

I agree that there are many more ways than one way.
I feed inside the snake's enclosure and here is why: They are ambush hunters and so they typically strike from within their hide. With the snakes who are ready to jump out of the tub or cage when I open the door for feeding, they strike, wrap and drag their prey into their hide.
It is my opinion that it is my responsibility to try to duplicate, to the best of my ability, scenarios that will best exploit their instincts and natural snake-ness.
EDIT> I don't understand about the reason that one feeds outside the enclosure to give an opportunity for the keeper to clean the environment. Don't you do that all throughout the week? Darn, I'm in my snake's cages and tubs at least twice every day checking on them, cleaning pee and poo, and giving fresh water...

I use newspaper so I clean when I notice poop/pee...Its kinda impossible to spot clean with newspaper bc the pee is all over the place and the poop is stuck to the paper. I take my snakes out atleast once 1 week, besides feeding day, and will clean tubs then as well if needed... Feeding day just gives me a definite day to clean if I am busy for whatever reason during the week and cant get to it.

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

I use newspaper so I clean when I notice poop/pee...Its kinda impossible to spot clean with newspaper bc the pee is all over the place and the poop is stuck to the paper. I take my snakes out atleast once 1 week, besides feeding day, and will clean tubs then as well if needed... Feeding day just gives me a definite day to clean if I am busy for whatever reason during the week and cant get to it.

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I also use paper and I clean the tub thoroughly after each poo and pee- doesn't matter the day of the week.
Yesterday I cleaned 4 tubs and 1 cage; last night I cleaned 3 tubs; this morning I cleaned 3 tubs and 1 cage. Cleaning means that I switched the snake into a prepared clean tub and removed the dirty tub and completely cleaned it and the water bowl and the hide and set it back up for next time. As for the girls in the reptile cages, I take the snake out and put her into a clean tub and then clean the cage. When the cage and contents are all cleaned, I put the snake back into her home and clean the tub she was in.

Edit> I don't just "notice" poo or pee, I am looking for it when I do my morning and evening checks, as well as afternoon check. Sheesh....

you asked why we use that day for cleaning and I let you know. I am not going to change the paper every time one of my snake pees. If I did that every time I'd be changing each tub 3 times a week. My tubs are far from dirty and I'm far from OCD with cleaning their tubs. These animals live in the wild where their own poop and pee is far from the worse thing they encounter. If you think 8ball or Ralph change their tubs everytime a snake poops or pees youre insane. I could be wrong but im pretty sure they do all their tubs 1nce a week.

For me, I feed everyone inside their enclosures, except a pair of carpet pythons that live together for breeding.

Though both methods work fine and I've fed both in and out of the enclosure, I feed inside for one main reason: I'm lazy and don't want to take the time to move my snakes to feed them. By the time I get the F/T rats into the room, they ALL know that it's feeding day and are ready and waiting. If I tried to move my Macklot's to a different tub I'm sure that he would happily start to eat me instead.

In the end, do what works for you and don't go for any of the myths from either side. As long as your snake is eating and healthy you're doing a great job :D

I too think that you should do what you are comfortable with and what works for you and your snake(s). I personally feed both of my girls live and in their tubs. I have not had any problems since I have had them (almost a year now for the first one) with aggression or anything. I just feed them routinely on the same day of the week at about the same time. I think that for my girls that is enough for them to know when it is time to eat and when it isn't.

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Substitute 1 myth with 2 ... good advice ;)

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So handling a BP in feeding mode is not likely to get you tag??? It’s a myth??? :rofl:

about as much of a myth as feeding your snake inside its enclosure will get you bit

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Yes you are correct I am calling it a myth... Ive fed all my snakes except 1 every week for 2 yrs outside thier enclosure with 0 bites, 0 regurges... Actually let me correct myself... I was bit twice but that was right after I put them in the tub and was pulling my hand away(before being fed). It takes .2 seconds to pick the snake up and gently put it in its cage. As far as handling after feeding... picking them up to put them back in their tub is not handling in my book so yes I agree you should not handle 48hrs after feeding.

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I'm not saying its impossible to do this successfully; I mentioned that in my first post.

Regurgitations happen not only because of handling; they're a survival tactic, snakes regurge so that they can escape a predator quickly when frightened. So just because you've had 0 regurges doesn't mean its a myth. Its very possible that someone moving a snake from a feeding tank to a home tank could startle them and cause a regurge.

In the end I agree it doesn't matter as long as they eat; but people should know the facts and come to their own conclusions.

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

you asked why we use that day for cleaning and I let you know. I am not going to change the paper every time one of my snake pees. If I did that every time I'd be changing each tub 3 times a week. My tubs are far from dirty and I'm far from OCD with cleaning their tubs. These animals live in the wild where their own poop and pee is far from the worse thing they encounter. If you think 8ball or Ralph change their tubs everytime a snake poops or pees youre insane. I could be wrong but im pretty sure they do all their tubs 1nce a week.

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Why would you bring up what Adam or Ralph do? Do you have as many snakes as they do? I sure don't!! I only have 16 and I don't let the snakes live in a tub full of pee and poo- I don't consider that OCD, I just think of it as good husbandry.

As far as equating living in tubs with living in their natural surroundings- don't. That comparison is not even close.

Also, don't call names; it's not nice and degrades the conversation and your influence within it.

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

Yes you are correct I am calling it a myth... Ive fed all my snakes except 1 every week for 2 yrs outside thier enclosure with 0 bites, 0 regurges... Actually let me correct myself... I was bit twice but that was right after I put them in the tub and was pulling my hand away(before being fed). It takes .2 seconds to pick the snake up and gently put it in its cage. As far as handling after feeding... picking them up to put them back in their tub is not handling in my book so yes I agree you should not handle 48hrs after feeding.

My problem with her response is she gets all flared up when she reads someone post that myth but shes going to mention two other myths? Even worse is she doesnt even feed outside the enclosure so how would she know? I speak from my 2 yrs of experience... No its not 40yrs and no I dont have 100+ snakes but its experience none the less.

Just like people who feed inside the tub get bothered by that myth I get bothered by the myths of feeding outside the enclosure. Both can be done correctly and both can be done incorrectly... neither is superior to the other and as well all keep mentioning its not how/where you feed but that your snake eats.

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Interesting Josh: You posted this today at 9:56 right here:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=66851
For those who don't want to pull it up, Josh wrote this:"I cant say Ive ever seen undigested food in their poops but I did have my first snake regurge on me bc I handled 24hrs after feeding."

Like I mentioned earlier Josh, your influence is waning, at best.

I brought up what Adam and Ralph do b/c it supports my case... No I do not have as many snakes of them but it still doesnt change the facts that they dont clean with every poop/pee. Just because I dont clean with every poop/pee on the spot 2wice a day doesnt mean I dont have good husbandry practices.

just double checked all my posts and I dont see where I called anyone any names but if I did I appologize.

Double check that post I made... I handled the snake A DAY AFTER IT HAD BEEN FED. I repeat 24HRS AFTER HE ATE... He didnt regurge bc I moved him from the feeding tub to his home... He regurged bc it was my first snake and I didnt know you couldnt mess with them up to 48hrs after they eat and I handled him the next day... Thanks for trying to twist my words to benefit your side though... thats very nice of you!

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

I brought up what Adam and Ralph do b/c it supports my case... No I do not have as many snakes of them but it still doesnt change the facts that they dont clean with every poop/pee. Just because I dont clean with every poop/pee on the spot 2wice a day doesnt mean I dont have good husbandry practices.

just double checked all my posts and I dont see where I called anyone any names but if I did I appologize.

Double check that post I made... I handled the snake A DAY AFTER IT HAD BEEN FED. I repeat 24HRS AFTER HE ATE... He didnt regurge bc I moved him from the feeding tub to his home... He regurged bc it was my first snake and I didnt know you couldnt mess with them up to 48hrs after they eat and I handled him the next day... Thanks for trying to twist my words to benefit your side though... thats very nice of you!

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Hmm, I thought you meant that it regurged because you moved it since that was the discussion... Stop your snideness.

Also, I don't know about Adam's or Ralph's cleaning. I'm uncertain as to why you would cite them if you don't know about how they clean either. However, I stand by my notion that good husbandry includes not allowing the snake to sit in a small tub with poo and or pee for a week.

I tend to get a little touchy when people try to make me look bad....

I dont know the cleaning schedule of either breeder but common sense tells me it would be a full time job to check/clean every tub that has poop/pee in it so they probably dont do it... Also if you watch snakebytes I'm pretty sure Brian said they do cleaning 1 day a week.

You dont have to worry about my snakes being in a small tub with poop/pee bc i dont keep them in small tubs. Smallest tub my snakes are in is 66qt... cleaning twice a week is plenty enough for me.

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

I tend to get a little touchy when people try to make me look bad....

I dont know the cleaning schedule of either breeder but common sense tells me it would be a full time job to check/clean every tub that has poop/pee in it so they probably dont do it... Also if you watch snakebytes I'm pretty sure Brian said they do cleaning 1 day a week.

You dont have to worry about my snakes being in a small tub with poop/pee bc i dont keep them in small tubs. Smallest tub my snakes are in is 66qt... cleaning twice a week is plenty enough for me.

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I don't know Josh- they need fresh water daily- they probably spot clean during this time as well (since we're conjecturing....)

Also, glad to hear your snakes have stretching space! I think the only place we differ is that cleaning 2x weekly is plenty for you and I clean for the sake of the snake. OCD? Nope! Just respectful in a different way from you. :D

Just as a note, we spot clean our snakes tubs everyday, takes like a half an hour to mess around with them all. :)

I can't give you anymore rep points now McKinsey ;)
Good Post :gj:!

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Originally Posted by JoshJP7

I'm pretty sure Brian said they do cleaning 1 day a week.

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Brian also uses cypress mulch and sani chips for the majority (if not all) of his snakes. Newspaper doesn't have the same absorbency as mulch or aspen, nor does it cover it up and coat it. It's easier to clean once every week that way, since the animals aren't sitting directly on top of feces and urine. :)

talkin in circles this guy is!

no more rep points for McKinsey

Hey! :O
Of course more rep points for me :D
We have to represent the west coast....
You can't be the only b-p.net forum 'vet' out here!!! :P
:rofl:

Ok... cleaning up after your snake(s) is a big part of owning and caring for them. What substrate you use can reflect how much time you have to do said cleaning.
Those who use wood chips or aspen USUALLY do so because those are absorbent, soft, and easy to spot clean allowing the full clean out to be done only once a week or even every two weeks.

Contrarily, those who use paper towels or newsprint do so for the ease of clean up and because it's cheaper. It takes mere minutes to remove the snake and dish, crumple up the paper, give the enclosure a quick wipe down, and replace clean paper, snake and dish. Because of this ease, big breeders often use paper and most likely DO clean the tub every time they see a mess because it's better for the snake, being in a small enclosed space, to have waste and spilled water removed ASAP.

As for the original subject of feeding in or out, I used to feed all my snakes outside the enclosure so I could clean it as they ate. But I discovered that it was easier, and less stressful on the snakes, to feed them in the enclosure and clean three days later. The only exception to this is my tiny corn female, because I don't want to chance her swallowing substrate and she loves to burrow. My snakes would eat either way, but they seem to eat BETTER (read more alert and quicker to take the prey) when I leave them at home.
Bottom line: Do whatever is best for your snake and yourself.

So as always, some conflicting opinions, but the general feeling i get is, "it doesn't matter as long as they eat" That's fine, but my question is, would the logic be any different with a small boa? I am attempting my first feeding of my first snake today. My understanding is that, in general, boas are more willing feeders than BP's, so is the advice regarding feeding in or out of the home tank any different?

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Originally Posted by dkatz4

So as always, some conflicting opinions, but the general feeling i get is, "it doesn't matter as long as they eat" That's fine, but my question is, would the logic be any different with a small boa? I am attempting my first feeding of my first snake today. My understanding is that, in general, boas are more willing feeders than BP's, so is the advice regarding feeding in or out of the home tank any different?

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The thread is pretty old (8 years) you might want to create your own in the proper section to get more views and answers.

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