NOOOOO - Slitting went horribly wrong

I slit the eggs today (day 52) on the clutch that was all dented and the shells were a bit hard due to bad humidity. The first 4 went without a hitch. The 5th egg, as I was cutting, I saw the egg fill with blood. I think I hit a vein by accident connected to the egg yolk. Oh my God! The ONLY morph in the clutch!!!!!

Oh man. I pray you didn't.. keep up up to date

no i feel for you. keep us up to date

Even so it should be ok. The vessels stop bleeding fairly quickly and there are a great many of them.

Now be patient and leave them alone.

I am NOT touching them again.
The eggs were soooo hard though. Only 2 were nice and pliable and easy to cut.

What did you use to cut? I hope not a razor blade!

oh no :tears:

That's pretty early to be cutting the eggs, even though many cut even earlier. It's common to cut through a vein and have blood. I wouldn't worry about that. Just leave them alone.. :)

Justin

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Originally Posted by Bill Buchman

What did you use to cut? I hope not a razor blade!

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disposable scalpel

Your fine.. But use scissors next time.. I cut them out of my way all the time. at day 52 you can practicaly yank them out and through them in a bin.. Good luck.:gj:

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

But use scissors next time...

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Ditto that. Scissors (especially nice sharp little cuticle scissors) give you more control than a scalpel.

Also, any time you cut an egg, try candling it first to see where there are no veins. Mark a spot there, and then make a tiny little pinch in the shell on that spot so it is raised up a bit, and make your initial "snip" there. This way you'll minimize your risk at hitting veins.

Keep in eye on the overall humidity in the incubation container so that the eggs don't dry out further before the hatchlings emerge on their own...you don't want them turning into a solidified, dried mass of egg goo & baby snake.

Good luck!

K~

Hi,

Hope the lil fella is ok for you too.

Have any of you guys got any tips on how to soften the shell for people who have the toughening problem in the future?

Would something like ky jelly or a hypo-allergenic moisturiser soften the shells without causing problems? Was wondering in case the hatchlings had trouble breraking out of toughened shells - or is this never really a problem?


dr del

I think slitting is a horrible idea in the first place, but I know alot of people have done it with no problems.

The problem is that once you open one of those veins, the delivery of oxygen to the zygote is greatly reduced. As we know from any birth, lack of oxygen kills brain cells.

I've never cut an egg open.. But if others have cut at 52 days without issues, then this one will probably be okay as long as you didn't cut the snake. Even then the snake could still be fine.

Best of luck to you! Your baby is in our prayers. ;)

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Hope the lil fella is ok for you too.

Have any of you guys got any tips on how to soften the shell for people who have the toughening problem in the future?

Would something like ky jelly or a hypo-allergenic moisturiser soften the shells without causing problems? Was wondering in case the hatchlings had trouble breraking out of toughened shells - or is this never really a problem?


dr del

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DO NOT put anything oily or greasy on the egg!!!

This is what they do in the wild to kill eggs.. Of any kind.
When seagulls or cormorants become a pest, FAWS coat their eggs in petroleum jelly to suffocate them. :(

My guess would be a misting with hot water?
Don't take my word for it, I've never dealt with this in person, but I know for sure that oily and greasy things are not good for eggs.

By the time hatching is days away, the zygote phase is long gone. If it's anything in that egg, it's a fetus or embryo, I forget which word is most apt for a prehatched snake.

While lungs are one of the last things to finish developing, there seems to be no problem with slitting the eggs.

I've hatched thousands of babies of many different species and I almost always slit the whole clutch once the first one pips or when they're a day or two past what I think should have been the hatch date.

I've had many MANY eggs have a blood vessel or two get cut but they have hatched anyway.

I've also had babies stick their noses out and start breathing once I slit the egg but stay in the egg for up to a week, indicating to me that they were breathing because of my slit before they would have piped the egg naturally.

As far as softening, water seems to work pretty well. You can spray them daily, several times a day if necessary so long as you let them dry in between sprayings so Oxygen exchange can occur.

Also, once the eggs start pipping you can spray them down and pull them apart, if they are still bunched. This will expose softer parts of the egg that can then be slit easily. They don't always slit the top in nature so don't worry if you make one on the side PROVIDED you are only a few days from hatching. If you are more than a few days from the hatch date and you slit it then there could be problems with albumen leakage which could be detrimental to the snake.

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Originally Posted by KLG

Ditto that. Scissors (especially nice sharp little cuticle scissors) give you more control than a scalpel.

Also, any time you cut an egg, try candling it first to see where there are no veins. Mark a spot there, and then make a tiny little pinch in the shell on that spot so it is raised up a bit, and make your initial "snip" there. This way you'll minimize your risk at hitting veins.

Keep in eye on the overall humidity in the incubation container so that the eggs don't dry out further before the hatchlings emerge on their own...you don't want them turning into a solidified, dried mass of egg goo & baby snake.

Good luck!

K~

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That's how we did it per your instructions Kara and though very nerve wracking for a first timer like me, it worked beautifully. :)

Fetus generally refers to a dead baby that was not born on normal terms.
Embryo is the first stage.
Neonate is the snake after it has hatched.
Zygote is the developing baby that has not reached the neonate stage, but has passed the embryotic stage. Atleast that's how I learned it.

If you are thinking of human babies, you are right, the terms are different.

The thing is, once the lungs take in air, they stop developing internally. They will grow as the snake grows, but they are done advancing. If the snake breathes early, he may have under-developed lungs. As long as you use a good substrate and keep him warm, this will not affect him during his life.

Opening vessels also opens the zygote to infection, but if your conditions are clean, generally nothing bad should happen.

You learned wrong. Zygote is the fertilized cell after the egg and sperm fuse. Embryo is the developing mass of cells. Fetus or embryo both refer to the developing baby (usually in humans, but used for most vertebrates). Neonate is the newly born. I would imagine either fetus or embryo would be appropriate up until they start breathing air.


ANYWAY. Good luck with the little buggers. They tend to be pretty tough, so just keep an eye on 'em. ;)

Cheers,
Kat

Top left is the egg in question. I also just realized there are twins in there. :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...01/cuteggs.jpg

They look fine, Steve... Just leave them be :) Congrats!!!

Hi,

I also extend my best wishes for the snake in question.

I also have a question! I've heard of slitting before, and I've seen many pictures of it online, but I never really stopped to ask... why?

Is there some benefit for slitting prior to the snake being ready to emerge? I can understand if a snake is overdue and it might need help (like if an egg is too hard, due to poor humidity during gestation) but I don't understand why people do this on normally developing, healthy, snake-filled eggs. Is it just curiosity? Are they the type of people who sneak peeks at Christmas presents? ;)

Thanks!

Mostly, people just want to see what they have before the animals in question hatch.

In Steves situation, as I understand it, the eggs were getting hard, which is not the optimal situation for a baby ball python to be able to slit the egg by its self. Lack of humidity, etc can cause problems with the egg shell, which may cause the baby to be unable to emerge, ergo drowning in its own egg.

Ditto that. They look alright, just need a little more time.

Cheers,
Kat

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Originally Posted by LadyOhh

In Steves situation, as I understand it, the eggs were getting hard, which is not the optimal situation for a baby ball python to be able to slit the egg by its self. Lack of humidity, etc can cause problems with the egg shell, which may cause the baby to be unable to emerge, ergo drowning in its own egg.

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Exactly. The humidity was bad thruout incubation and the shells were very hard. I had a hard time with a razor sharp surgical scalpel getting thru them. I doubt an egg tooth would have been able to break thru.

I was worried after reading the initial post, I'm glad to see that they are turing out fine. Congrats on the "twin" :gj:

Twice the babies, twice the veins, twice the oxygen.

They'll be AOK. They all look great! :gj:

Keep an eye out for any scratches on them (just in case) and maybe post again if something seems wrong.

They look good to me.

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Originally Posted by SPJ

Top left is the egg in question. I also just realized there are twins in there. :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...01/cuteggs.jpg

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What is the morph? They all look pretty normal in the pic?

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Originally Posted by pfan151

What is the morph? They all look pretty normal in the pic?

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I think they are yellow belly's

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Originally Posted by pfan151

What is the morph? They all look pretty normal in the pic?

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There is one that is not like the others. Unfortunately in that pic, you can't really see it.

hopefully everything works out good for you

keep us updated, and with pics!

So howd it go? Hope everything went well... :please:

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Originally Posted by JASBALLS

Your fine.. But use scissors next time.. I cut them out of my way all the time. at day 52 you can practicaly yank them out and through them in a bin.. Good luck.:gj:

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Ummm..why exactly? there is almost no reason to slit the eggs. It's only impatience unles its after day 60.

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Originally Posted by NightLad

Are they the type of people who sneak peeks at Christmas presents? ;)

Thanks!

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I would say yes, they are that type. It's more exciting to watch them pip on there own.