Back up thermostat is a MUST!! learn from my mistake

I knew that a back up thermostat was a good idea, but just had never really "gotten around" to it. I guess I really just thought, my herpstat won't fail me, I'll get around to it when I do...

Well, this morning I woke up and went to check on the snakes before I head off to work like I always do. Every single one in the ball rack was pressed up against the front of the tub. I think "Hmmmmm, that's weird...". Then I see the thermometer and it's reading 116.2!!!!! I immediately unplugged the flexwatt and tried to figure out what went wrong.

Turns out the probe had come unattached and was no where near where it needed to be. The thermostat was just fine, but because of the probe being moved, it was running the flexwatt at full force!

All the snakes seem to be just fine; it happened during the night as they were fine when I went to bed. But I nearly had a heart attack this morning.

Anyways, just ordered a Ranco for a back up. Lesson of the day is get a back up thermostat! Learn from my mistake!! I don't want to think what could have happened had I been on vacation or something and this went on for several days.

I have had the probe come loose on me like that before. Luckly I caught it before any damage had taken place.

Glad all of your snakes are alive and well.:gj:

What are you using to secure it in place?

I found that Electrical tape is notorious for coming undone. I tried some of that foil tape and that stuff STICKS!!!

Well, glad to hear your collection is doing OK.

How exactly are you wiring your other t-stat as a backup? set it a few degrees higher than the herpstat? and then plug the herpstat into the Ranco?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nathanledet

What are you using to secure it in place?

I found that Electrical tape is notorious for coming undone. I tried some of that foil tape and that stuff STICKS!!!

---

I was using duct tape at the time and whenever the tub slide over it, the tape would stick to the tub and come undone.

I got me some of that fancy foil tape and haven't had a problem yet:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blueapplepaste

Then I see the thermometer and it's reading 116.2!!!!! I immediately unplugged the flexwatt and tried to figure out what went wrong.

---

Given that your problem was the thermostat running full-bore, how would a backup have helped you?

I second the earlier comment about sticking the probe to the flexwatt with foil tape though. We've got our probes setup that way, and they don't move at all.

With a back-up, you would have both probes stuck to the flexwatt. If one came loose, such as the primary, then the backup would register that the flexwatt has gotten too hot and would shut off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

With a back-up, you would have both probes stuck to the flexwatt. If one came loose, such as the primary, then the backup would register that the flexwatt has gotten too hot and would shut off.

---

Bingo :gj:

I was using foil tape to secure it, but I think one of the tubs bumped the probe, or maybe the probe wire got tugged on by one of my cats or something, but the tape that was securing it was ripped.

I'm going to set the ranco a couple of degrees warmer and put its probe on a different level, and then plug the herpstat into the ranco. This way if I had what happened here happen, the ranco would have turned off the herpstat and shut down the power.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

With a back-up, you would have both probes stuck to the flexwatt. If one came loose, such as the primary, then the backup would register that the flexwatt has gotten too hot and would shut off.

---

Yeah, but it would have only shut off the backup unit if they were wired in parallel (leaving the primary unit to over-heat the tape). If they are wired in series, then the failure of either unit (ie. one dies and goes dark), would cause the rack not to heat at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blueapplepaste

I'm going to set the ranco a couple of degrees warmer and put its probe on a different level, and then plug the herpstat into the ranco. This way if I had what happened here happen, the ranco would have turned off the herpstat and shut down the power.

---

Yes, but that way, if either the Ranco or the Herpstat fails, your rack won't be heated at all -- not really a "backup" as much as a kill-switch. The question becomes whether the risk of a probe being jostled loose is greater than that of a thermostat failing, because either setup incurs risk.

Rather have it too cool dont you think? BP's can handle some 70 degrees for a few until you get home and find it. On the other hand, they cant handle a fire.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by littleindiangirl

Rather have it too cool dont you think? BP's can handle some 70 degrees for a few until you get home and find it. On the other hand, they cant handle a fire.

---

Well, that requires risk assessment on the part of the owner... Is the probe coming loose more or less likely to happen than a thermostat failing and shutting down, and in such an event, what will the temperatures in the rack do given the surrounding environment.

I understand what you're saying Jeff. If one tstat fails, IE dies completely, not just probe failure, then the flexwatt isn't going to get power anyway because it can't get through the dead tstat. Yes?

I understand the use of a back-up in the case of probe failure, but when I have had probes fail on my Herpstat 2, the unit shut the power off to that half of the thermostat and definitely told me about it.. At 3am.. Loudly.

Do Johnson Controls or Rancos shut themselves off in the case of probe failure?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

If one tstat fails, IE dies completely, not just probe failure, then the flexwatt isn't going to get power anyway because it can't get through the dead tstat.

---

Right, and because the power is being cut off to it, it won't be able to alarm about the failure (no power = no buzzer).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Do Johnson Controls or Rancos shut themselves off in the case of probe failure?

---

It would also be interesting to know what constitutes a "probe failure" for each manufacturer (ie. a short or circuit break). In this case, the probe didn't fail, but wasn't measuring the heat in the correct location, so the thermostat was compensating for what it thought was a low temperature.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Well, that requires risk assessment on the part of the owner... Is the probe coming loose more or less likely to happen than a thermostat failing and shutting down, and in such an event, what will the temperatures in the rack do given the surrounding environment.

---

Well, for me, either way I'd much rather have it just shut off the heat tape. My snake room doesnt get that cold. It's always around 80-82. For a while we didnt even use the heat tape, my room was very warm.

In the event that the primary thermostat fails and shuts down, regardless, the second one isn't going to fry them.


I'm more worried about a fire and losing my home and on top of that my snakes.

If I were to get some sick snakes from the thermostat shutting down, I'd be blessed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Yes, but that way, if either the Ranco or the Herpstat fails, your rack won't be heated at all -- not really a "backup" as much as a kill-switch. The question becomes whether the risk of a probe being jostled loose is greater than that of a thermostat failing, because either setup incurs risk.

---

Yeah, but as was already stated, they can handle cooler temps. So if either one failed, the heat tape gets turned off. I'd rather this happen than a fire or 115+ degree tubs.

With any set up there is going to be some inherent risk. But we do what we can to minimize it. If what happened to me happened while I was out of town or something, I probably would have fried all my ball pythons; I would have rather had the whole system shut down, and the bps spend a few days at 80 degrees.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Yeah, but it would have only shut off the backup unit if they were wired in parallel (leaving the primary unit to over-heat the tape). If they are wired in series, then the failure of either unit (ie. one dies and goes dark), would cause the rack not to heat at all.

---

If the backup comes off the flexxwatt it will ready 78 degrees or whatever your room temp is at, so it won't shut off. If the primary comes off it will turn the heat tape on full bore which should tell the backup to kick in and cut power. Yes, wire them in series.

If they both come off then you are in the same boat is if just one came off, but taping them separately should result in this happening with almost 0 probability.

JonV

Backups are definitely neccesary.

I had a failure about 6 months ago and lost three 2006 females. I run ranco backups on everything now.

As a side note you should also have a backup on your incubator. This is sometimes overlooked.

Great to hear everything was ok and you are all the wiser!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nathanledet

What are you using to secure it in place?

I found that Electrical tape is notorious for coming undone. I tried some of that foil tape and that stuff STICKS!!!

Well, glad to hear your collection is doing OK.

How exactly are you wiring your other t-stat as a backup? set it a few degrees higher than the herpstat? and then plug the herpstat into the Ranco?

---

I agree, foil tape is the stickest around!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

If the primary comes off it will turn the heat tape on full bore which should tell the backup to kick in and cut power. Yes, wire them in series.

---

The question now is, since an actual failure of either thermostat would kill power to the rack completely, is it really a backup, or just a dead-man's switch ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

The question now is, since an actual failure of either thermostat would kill power to the rack completely, is it really a backup, or just a dead-man's switch ;)

---

I think its a matter of semantics. Call it what you will, but the point of a back up (or dead man's switch) is to save your snakes if something goes wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Given that your problem was the thermostat running full-bore, how would a backup have helped you?

I second the earlier comment about sticking the probe to the flexwatt with foil tape though. We've got our probes setup that way, and they don't move at all.

---

seriously....you are too freakin smart my friend.:O:weirdface

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

The question now is, since an actual failure of either thermostat would kill power to the rack completely, is it really a backup, or just a dead-man's switch ;)

---

Hmm...I'm not sure the definition of a dead-man's switch. The value of the thermostat can be explained in terms of "expected value" of the outcome, which I followed through in painful detail in another post.

Put succicently: You have one thermostat and it fails in ON position, your snakes die. You are out potentially thousands of dollars, many hours/years of time investment, loss of breeding plans, not to mention any emotional trauma you may endure at the thought of your collection cooking. You have two thermostats and it fails in OFF position, your snakes get a little bit chilly, but are otherwise fine.

JonV

Pat, he can be even more mind-boggling in person! My brain has "duh" moments, haha :D

Does everyone have their probe taped directly to the flexwatt or to the underside of the tub? Mine are taped to the underside of the tubs right now but I have had issues with the probe coming off, no matter if I use foil tape or electrical tape, when I have to move the tub to clean it, etc.

Here the probe is stuck to the inside bottom of an empty tub with either duct tape or foil tape. Works out well for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by icygirl

Does everyone have their probe taped directly to the flexwatt or to the underside of the tub?

---

We strap ours directly to the flexwatt, but it can go either way.

If you measure from in the tub, set the thermostat at the temperature point you want. If you strap it to the flexwatt, you will most likely need to go a few degrees higher (we run about +4), since the tubs will insulate against the heat somewhat, and the thermostat will shut off when the flexwatt itself reaches the set-point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nevohraalnavnoj

You have two thermostats and it fails in OFF position, your snakes get a little bit chilly, but are otherwise fine.

---

Yeah, I agree it's a good idea, but I'm just imagining a rack with 4 thermostats on it, two to make sure the rack stays warm, and two so it doesn't get too warm :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Yeah, I agree it's a good idea, but I'm just imagining a rack with 4 thermostats on it, two to make sure the rack stays warm, and two so it doesn't get too warm :rolleyes:

---

Small price to pay when $1000's and countless hours, expectations, dreams, etc are on theline.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blueapplepaste

Small price to pay when $1000's and countless hours, expectations, dreams, etc are on theline.

---

Amen to that ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Patrick Long

seriously....you are too freakin smart my friend.

---

It's all an act, don't be taken in by it ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ctrlfreq

Yeah, I agree it's a good idea, but I'm just imagining a rack with 4 thermostats on it, two to make sure the rack stays warm, and two so it doesn't get too warm :rolleyes:

---

The way I understand though, you only need two for each tank...the main t-stat (which is plugged into the backup) controls the temperature normally, but then if gets too hot, the backup will cut the power to the main. If it gets too cool then, the backup will allow power again, and the main will run at full power. (the backup should be an on/off, not a proportional)
However, it is true that if either of your stats fails in the off position, then you won't get any heat at all.

Of course, you could use 4 if you are controlling two different heat sources with two different t-stats each.